Samsonite suitcases banned!
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Talon, relax, people have always sniped at the flight, but for many years 47sqn was the most decorated sqn (current ops) in the RAF. The critics will never know what it was like and sadly it has changed forever nowadays. In terms of capability due to cut backs and fewer training opportunities it is also probably past it's high point. The problem was the refusal to listen to non flight personnel. But for me, the high point of the esprit de corps was the way the crew reacted to the crash of XV 298.
Perhaps this thread should be put to bed, I agree with you, it is so easy to criticise when your name is hidden from view.
Perhaps this thread should be put to bed, I agree with you, it is so easy to criticise when your name is hidden from view.
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Oh dear, it's all got rather heated.
I started this thread to have a laugh at a piece of trivia, and I haven't enjoyed all of the posts that have vented a considerable amount of spleen about JG. I don't know him that well as I've never been on the Flt and I only know him as the Staish. He has always seemed a reasonable chap when we've spoken but that doesn't mean I can't poke fun at what was a rather silly decision, particularly as the 'Samsonite opportunities' are fairly thin on the ground these days.
I do however disagree that Lyneham was a shambles before he arrived, the station has always ticked along rather well despite rather than because of the leadership. The Hercules world has changed enormously in the past 2 decades, and much of it for the good operationally, although I believe it to be rather less fun than it was. Your perspective on whether that's a good thing is obviously a personal matter....
I started this thread to have a laugh at a piece of trivia, and I haven't enjoyed all of the posts that have vented a considerable amount of spleen about JG. I don't know him that well as I've never been on the Flt and I only know him as the Staish. He has always seemed a reasonable chap when we've spoken but that doesn't mean I can't poke fun at what was a rather silly decision, particularly as the 'Samsonite opportunities' are fairly thin on the ground these days.
I do however disagree that Lyneham was a shambles before he arrived, the station has always ticked along rather well despite rather than because of the leadership. The Hercules world has changed enormously in the past 2 decades, and much of it for the good operationally, although I believe it to be rather less fun than it was. Your perspective on whether that's a good thing is obviously a personal matter....
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HPT
Now let's put a few things together shall we...
You're a helicopter man, with an opinion on the CH47, you have an 'intimate' knowledge of what goes on on 47 Sqn and you're in Australia....
Well that kind of narrows you down a little and judging by your rather twa**ish and ill considered opinions I think I know who you are. If not, my second and third goes will be better.
Now, whilst we're on the subject of better, YOU should know better than to post inflammatory rubbish on an open forum. You might also remember that you signed a Non-Dislosure-Agreement and something called the OSA. One of your earlier posts is clearly in contravention of these and I would urge you to delete. That the info might be in the public arena is neither here-nor-there...
Slagging Gladis off in public is really weak as a former colleague, especially when you hide behind anonymity. I am honour bound to defend him as he is both a mate and a top bloke; you are clearly neither.
Finally, you're mud slinging is ill-judged and demonstrates your weakness. If you'd had any cojones, you should have resolved your concerns when you were in a position of authority to do so. If you are who I think you are, you were in the perfect position to resolve...
You served on an excellent unit, but as good as it is, JSFAW (or 7 Sqn) has it's own skeletons. They're kept in the cupboard next to the spare tail pylons & rotors. I wouldn't wish to see them aired on here any more than I would wish to see my own units.
To coin your phrase "No, I thought not."
PS I thought about posting this under a different name to really vent my spleen, but frankly, I don't care if you work out who I am. You didn't have a great opinion of me anyhow, and I'll live with that.
Now let's put a few things together shall we...
You're a helicopter man, with an opinion on the CH47, you have an 'intimate' knowledge of what goes on on 47 Sqn and you're in Australia....
Well that kind of narrows you down a little and judging by your rather twa**ish and ill considered opinions I think I know who you are. If not, my second and third goes will be better.
Now, whilst we're on the subject of better, YOU should know better than to post inflammatory rubbish on an open forum. You might also remember that you signed a Non-Dislosure-Agreement and something called the OSA. One of your earlier posts is clearly in contravention of these and I would urge you to delete. That the info might be in the public arena is neither here-nor-there...
Slagging Gladis off in public is really weak as a former colleague, especially when you hide behind anonymity. I am honour bound to defend him as he is both a mate and a top bloke; you are clearly neither.
Finally, you're mud slinging is ill-judged and demonstrates your weakness. If you'd had any cojones, you should have resolved your concerns when you were in a position of authority to do so. If you are who I think you are, you were in the perfect position to resolve...
You served on an excellent unit, but as good as it is, JSFAW (or 7 Sqn) has it's own skeletons. They're kept in the cupboard next to the spare tail pylons & rotors. I wouldn't wish to see them aired on here any more than I would wish to see my own units.
To coin your phrase "No, I thought not."
PS I thought about posting this under a different name to really vent my spleen, but frankly, I don't care if you work out who I am. You didn't have a great opinion of me anyhow, and I'll live with that.
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They're kept in the cupboard next to the spare tail pylons & rotors
If you'd had any cojones, you should have resolved your concerns when you were in a position of authority to do so. If you are who I think you are, you were in the perfect position to resolve..
I don't care if you work out who I am
You didn't have a great opinion of me anyhow
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Nail. Head. Hit. I'll take that as a yes.
There's accidents and accidents chap. One man's gash is another man's too much pitch...
You would probably consider it gash, but I would probably consider it adaptive. You adapt your SOP and I'll adapt mine...
There's accidents and accidents chap. One man's gash is another man's too much pitch...
You would probably consider it gash, but I would probably consider it adaptive. You adapt your SOP and I'll adapt mine...
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Mate, why don't you go away and research what you are saying. The BOI report from the incident you are referring to makes no mention of deliberately breaking any rules, procedures or SOPs. I can't recall any 7 Sqn/JSFAW incident in recent history that has either.
Being adaptive is what being highly effective on operations is all about. Exceeding aircraft limitations or failing to follow a well established risk managed procedure is another issue.
How much time exactly was spent sorting out Flt related incidents in STC/2 Gp and another HQ. Just think how much further we could have genuinely developed capability if we hadn't been painting over the chasms....
HPT
Being adaptive is what being highly effective on operations is all about. Exceeding aircraft limitations or failing to follow a well established risk managed procedure is another issue.
How much time exactly was spent sorting out Flt related incidents in STC/2 Gp and another HQ. Just think how much further we could have genuinely developed capability if we hadn't been painting over the chasms....
HPT
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Equiv,
That is very funny. Now it is apparent who HPT is, it all fits into place. If only we were all as good as 7 Sqn. As i remember HPT, the bloke you seem to enjoy slagging off did more for your outfits capdev during his grd tour than most of your flt cdrs. Do us all a favour and stay in oz.
That is very funny. Now it is apparent who HPT is, it all fits into place. If only we were all as good as 7 Sqn. As i remember HPT, the bloke you seem to enjoy slagging off did more for your outfits capdev during his grd tour than most of your flt cdrs. Do us all a favour and stay in oz.
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Talon,
Nigegilb encapsulated the Flt's ethos quite well:
Your post supports that quite neatly.
Well its nice of you to say that; not something that I have said.
HPT
Nigegilb encapsulated the Flt's ethos quite well:
arrogance and total lack of humility
If only we were all as good as 7 Sqn
HPT
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Why don't you bite a bit harder...
Is the word deliberate in there for a reason...? I assume therefore that adopting an excessively high nose attitude close to the ground was part of your SOP...? Just wondering like...as I would love to be as non-gash and competent as you. Maybe you were just unlucky and your mother didn't like you either...?
You would seem to be in a better position to answer this than I, being as you were so very important. Luckily you're not airing any more dirty linen in public.
It's interesting how one's opinion can often be confirmed. I always considered you a nice bloke, until I discovered that you had said one thing to my face and then said something different about my professional competence when out of camera. You had the opportunity, but not the cojones...History seems to be repeating itself...?
That's my dirty linen cleaned now, moving on!
The BOI report from the incident you are referring to makes no mention of deliberately breaking any rules, procedures or SOPs. I can't recall any 7 Sqn/JSFAW incident in recent history that has either.
How much time exactly was spent sorting out Flt related incidents in STC/2 Gp and another HQ. Just think how much further we could have genuinely developed capability if we hadn't been painting over the chasms....
It's interesting how one's opinion can often be confirmed. I always considered you a nice bloke, until I discovered that you had said one thing to my face and then said something different about my professional competence when out of camera. You had the opportunity, but not the cojones...History seems to be repeating itself...?
That's my dirty linen cleaned now, moving on!
Last edited by The Equivocator; 6th Oct 2010 at 20:20. Reason: To add the last line...
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Yes, because deliberate flounting oif rules was seen as game by some.
Can I suggest that you read the BOI report and see what it says before making assumptions about causal and contributory factors.
What a silly thing to say. I don't consider myself important at all.
PM me and I'll confirm if I said what you are saying is true.
HPT
I assume therefore that adopting an excessively high nose attitude close to the ground was part of your SOP.
You would seem to be in a better position to answer this than I, being as you were so very important
It's interesting how one's opinion can often be confirmed. I always considered you a nice bloke, until I discovered that you had said one thing to my face and then said something different about my professional competence when out of camera. You had the opportunity, but not the cojones...History seems to be repeating itself...?
HPT
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From:
To:
In short order...Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass. But if you're willing to put your name at the bottom of the posts slagging off Gladis, I'll gladly do the same to my posts...? Now that's childish
As for the accident old chap, I can assure you I quoted that from the MAAS:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A251D...04_25nov99.pdf
I didn't make any assumptions about the causal or contributory factors. You must be a bit touchy. Was it in the SOP then...?
Maybe you object to the insinuation in my post, that the too high nose attitude was someone's fault...Maybe in much the same way as I object to your insinuation that someone was at fault for hitting a vehicle on a strip.
Only stating facts old boy, only facts.
Touche...
I couldn't give a fig who you are either.
PM me and I'll confirm if I said what you are saying is true.
As for the accident old chap, I can assure you I quoted that from the MAAS:
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A251D...04_25nov99.pdf
I didn't make any assumptions about the causal or contributory factors. You must be a bit touchy. Was it in the SOP then...?
Maybe you object to the insinuation in my post, that the too high nose attitude was someone's fault...Maybe in much the same way as I object to your insinuation that someone was at fault for hitting a vehicle on a strip.
Only stating facts old boy, only facts.
Touche...
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Mate, I'm not interested in who you are but as I said in my PM to you, if somebody down the pub has told you that I was critical of your professional ability, then you either can't recall me telling that to your face or or the 3rd party is lying.
As for your link, that is only 3 pages long and the BOI report which I have here in my hand is 8 pages long. Me thinks you might be making judgments on partial fact.....so please don't say you are only stating fact when you are not in possession of all of them.
Touche.....how very childish.
HPT
As for your link, that is only 3 pages long and the BOI report which I have here in my hand is 8 pages long. Me thinks you might be making judgments on partial fact.....so please don't say you are only stating fact when you are not in possession of all of them.
Touche.....how very childish.
HPT
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Not judging you chap...but isn't it ironic that you're so incredibly touchy over something which you're quite happy to do to other people.
Maybe you need help with the word insinuate, not sure you did staff college: 'Hint obliquely or unpleasantly.'
You've done it, I've done it to prove a point. Understand...?
I do hope I'm pressing your buttons.
Maybe you need help with the word insinuate, not sure you did staff college: 'Hint obliquely or unpleasantly.'
You've done it, I've done it to prove a point. Understand...?
I do hope I'm pressing your buttons.
