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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 5th Jun 2019, 14:04
  #11881 (permalink)  
 
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Great Footage - All in Burner!


Never saw one clip of Typhoons, F15s or Tornados flying the Mach Loop at speed with the burners plugged in.
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 17:21
  #11882 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by subsonicsubic View Post

Never saw one clip of Typhoons, F15s or Tornados flying the Mach Loop at speed with the burners plugged in.
One of my retirement hobbies is low level Aviation photography and living near to the Mach Loop I've spent quite a bit of time sitting on the side of a hill waiting for a fast jet to appear round the corner. Occasionally if the pilots spotted photographers they might plug in the burners for a few seconds to give us that special shot, but there was an unwritten code that "what happened in the Loop stayed in the Loop" and such shots were rarely published. With the advent of Facebook the Loop became much more popular and the code started to be ignored so you can probably find burner shots if you Google.

As I said, burners were only normally plugged in for a few seconds while they were near the photographers, although there was one rather special occasion when a pilot on his "fini" Tornado flight was supposed to have done the entire Loop on burners - certainly for the 1/3rd of the Loop that was in my field of view at least😀

I was fortunate to be at Rainbow when the above video was taken. It was actually a photo shoot by the Dutch F35 323 TES Squadron based at Edwards AF base and received quite a bit of publicity in the aviation press, couldn't see the RAF doing that with one of their F35's in the Loop!
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 17:25
  #11883 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FODPlod View Post
Latest news about production and flying hours:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/400t...-flight-hours/

Still wondering when it will be cancelled.
Some interesting nuggets in there: ".....The production total is comprised of 283 F-35A, 87 F-35B and 30 F-35C deliveries. The 200,000 flight hours includes all F-35s in the fleet comprised of developmental test jets, training, operational, U.S. and international aircraft. Among the three variants, approximately 125,850 hours were flown by the F-35A, 52,410 hours by the F-35B and 22,630 by the F-35C...."

Seems like the C's are flying a lot. With 22,000+ hours on 30 airframes....
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 22:56
  #11884 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by subsonicsubic View Post
Never saw one clip of Typhoons, F15s or Tornados flying the Mach Loop at speed with the burners plugged in.
So? What's your point?

-RP
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Old 5th Jun 2019, 23:01
  #11885 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by subsonicsubic View Post
Never saw one clip of Typhoons, F15s or Tornados flying the Mach Loop at speed with the burners plugged in.
Nice shots!!

Notice how the flight refueling receptacle markings make a pretty good aiming point!!!
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Old 6th Jun 2019, 09:24
  #11886 (permalink)  
 
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Putting the nice round pipper over the nice round helmet is our usual preference.
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 07:30
  #11887 (permalink)  
 
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Turkish F-35 pilot training halted?

U.S. to stop training Turkish F-35 pilots because of S400 deal...

-RP
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 07:58
  #11888 (permalink)  
 
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Obviously not filmed in Death Valley as it is a National Park with NO flying below 3000ft agl. There are, however, some great shots.

Even in the Tornado, if the burners were selected for 30+ seconds at low level the speed would end up at 600+ish kts.

Putting the nice round pipper over the nice round helmet is our usual preference
I thought that it was between the eyes!
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Old 8th Jun 2019, 08:59
  #11889 (permalink)  
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Crosspost from Turkey thread.

Turkey coup?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 11:34
  #11890 (permalink)  
 
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Turkey ban to wipe out 20% of F-35 sales in Europe

Article on Flight Global.

Extract from the article:-
In total, European nations have committed to a 478-aircraft programme of record for the F-35 by 2030. Removing Turkey’s 100-aircraft programme from the count wipes out more than a fifth of Lockheed Martin’s future orders in the region over the next decade. The country is tied with Australia as the fourth-largest buyer of the F-35, behind the USA, Japan and the UK.

Turkish troubles come as Europe’s other two big F-35 customers, Italy and the UK, could go back on their purchase promises. Italy, which has already reduced its F-35 order once, from 131 to 90 aircraft, is governed by a coalition government that includes the Five Star Movement, a political party which has threatened to reduce funding for F-35 purchases. The UK is committed to buying 138 aircraft as part of its programme of record, though its ambitions to develop a notional sixth-generation fighter, via BAE Systems’ Tempest concept, could cut into its commitment.

On the flip side, Lockheed Martin is fielding the F-35 in active procurement competitions in countries such as Switzerland and Finland. Poland and Greece have publicly expressed interest in buying the stealth fighter, while Romania and Spain are prospective buyers, too, said Vice Admiral Mathias Winter, executive officer of the F-35 Joint Program Office, in an April hearing before the House Armed Services Committee.

Though it set 31 July deadline for Turkey to give up acquiring the S-400, the US Defense Department (DoD) is already taking steps to remove the country from the F-35 programme, including banning Turkey from the annual F-35 Chief Executive Officer Roundtable on 12 June and updating the programme's governing documents without Ankara’s participation. Even so, the Pentagon is keeping the door cracked to allow Turkey to re-enter the Joint Strike Fighter programme.

“None of the steps we are taking are irreversible,” says Lord. “If Turkey chooses to forgo delivery of the S-400, we look forward to restoring normal program activity.”
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 13:10
  #11891 (permalink)  
 
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The Pentagon is battling the clock to fix serious, unreported F-35 problems

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019...20Bird%20Brief
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 13:15
  #11892 (permalink)  
 
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Pentagon, Lockheed in $34 billion F-35 deal

Will there ever be 'full-rate' production?

Flight Global article.
In what is billed as the largest procurement contract in the history of the Department of Defense (DoD), Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon reached a $34 billion “handshake agreement” for hundreds of F-35 Lightning II stealth fighters.

The agreement covers the purchase of 478 F-35 aircraft over low-rate initial production lots 12, 13 and 14. The Joint Program Office and Lockheed Martin are negotiating on the final details of the contract, which would cover aircraft delivered to the USA, as well as development partners in the Joint Strike Fighter programme and Foreign Military Sales customers.

“When the statutory certification is completed, we will be able to formally announce the final Unit Recurring Flyaway (URF) prices for each variant in each lot,” Ellen Lord, under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, says on 10 June. “Until that time, I am proud to state that this agreement has achieved an estimated 8.8% savings from lot 11 to lot 12 F-35As, and an approximate average of 15% URF reduction across all variants from lot 11 to lot 14. This framework estimates the delivery of an F-35A for less than $80 million in lot 13, one year earlier than planned.”

The DoD plans for lot 12 to have 157 aircraft, an 11% increase from the prior lot, which is in production throughout 2019. The agreement for 478 aircraft over lots 12, 13 and 14 would nearly equal the total number of F-35s contracted in all prior lots: 501 aircraft.

Lockheed Martin is ramping up production to meet what it expects to be growing demand for its signature stealth fighter. The company sees worldwide sales of the fighter possibly reaching 4,600 units over the course of its lifecycle.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 14:11
  #11893 (permalink)  
 
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...but there was an unwritten code that "what happened in the Loop stayed in the Loop" and such shots were rarely published.
Can I ask why such shots were taken in the first place, if not to be seen by others?
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 14:12
  #11894 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lyneham Lad View Post
Will there ever be 'full-rate' production?

Flight Global article.
Yes, in Lot 15.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 21:49
  #11895 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
Can I ask why such shots were taken in the first place, if not to be seen by others?
Because not everyone who photographs jets needs the kudos of splashing the pics all over the internet . If you invest the time and effort to get yourself right time right place you're entitled to take whatever shots you want and keep them for your own satisfaction or to share with a few friends in private . "Chacun a son gout "
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 07:07
  #11896 (permalink)  
 
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...keep them for your own satisfaction or to share with a few friends in private
Is that even legal? Ho hum.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 18:38
  #11897 (permalink)  
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https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019...ealth-coating/

Supersonic speeds could cause big problems for the F-35′s stealth coating

WASHINGTON — At extremely high altitudes, the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps’ versions of the F-35 jet can only fly at supersonic speeds for short bursts of time before there is a risk of structural damage and loss of stealth capability, a problem that may make it impossible for the Navy’s F-35C to conduct supersonic intercepts.

The Defense Department does not intend to field a fix for the problem, which influences not only the F-35’s airframe and the low-observable coating that keeps it stealthy, but also the myriad antennas located on the back of the plane that are currently vulnerable to damage, according to documents exclusively obtained by Defense News.

The F-35 Joint Program Office has classified the issues for the "B" and "C" models as separate category 1 deficiencies, indicating in one document that the problem presents a challenge to accomplishing one of the key missions of the fighter jet. In this scale, category 1 represents the most serious type of deficiency........


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Old 14th Jun 2019, 06:34
  #11898 (permalink)  
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The link below leads to a long list of articles posted yesterday explicating various issues. I’ve chosen just one to post separately to give an example......

http://www.defensenews.com/smr/hidden-troubles-f35/

The Hidden Troubles of the F-35

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019...-environments/

The Marine Corps’ ‘No. 1 priority’ for the F-35 involves a rough landing in hot environments

WASHINGTON — It was a hot day aboard the amphibious assault ship Essex when a pilot brought his F-35B in for what is known as a “mode four” flight operation, where the jet enters hover mode near a landing spot, slides over to the target area and then vertically lands onto the ship.

It’s a key part of the F-35B’s short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing capability, known as STOVL. And normally, everything in a “mode four” landing goes smoothly. But on this day, when the pilot triggered the thrust to slow his descent, something went wrong. The engine, working hard on a day that temperatures cracked 90 degrees Fahrenheit while trying to lift a plane that was heavier than most returning to base, wouldn’t generate the needed thrust for a safe, ideal landing.

The pilot got the plane down, but was shaken enough by the situation to write up an incident report that would eventually be marked as “high” concern by the F-35 program office. “May result in unanticipated and uncontrolled sink, leading to hard landing or potential ejection/loss of aircraft, particularly in the presence of HGI [hot gas ingestion],” reads a summary of the issue, which was obtained by Defense News as part of a cache of “for official use only” documents that detail major concerns with the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.....

The issue seems to stem from two factors: the heat, and the fact that much of the testing for the “mode four” maneuver was done with planes that were lighter, as they weren’t armed with heavy stores of weaponry. Feedback from the Marine Corps highlighted that while the average engine should not see this issue until around 750 flight hours, “several engines are at/near the point of concern,” and that number will continue to grow with the extended use of older planes.........

Winter said engineers have identified an issue in the design of the control software that the pilot uses to generate demand for thrust from the propulsion system.

“There’s no redesign of the engine [necessary]. The engine is doing what the engine is supposed to do,” Winter emphasized, before acknowledging that in addition to the software fix, the program office has worked with Honeywell to change how the company calibrates the throttle valve on the engine. “We’ve identified the software fix for the control system, the calibration fix to the throttle valve and some near-term fleet actions that could be taken for very hot days to ensure that the pilot gets the performance he or she needs on those hot days,” he said.

That software fix will be a rolling target, as the first increment of the software release is due in June, followed by another at the end of this year or early next year. “We’ve given them tighter tolerances to tune them more precisely, so that when it goes on the engine it’s no longer not giving the command the way it’s supposed to be,” Winter explained. “It wasn’t tuned correctly for this high-demand phase of flight. Now, we fixed that. That’s fixed. The software is going in to make sure that the pilot can command that thrust and understand the heat and the loading.”

Those fixes won’t be cheap, and when asked who would pay for them, Winter was blunt, saying it is his office’s belief the thrust issue is a “design deficiency” that merits “consideration” from industry. “In this case it doesn’t matter that the design was done back in 2002, it’s still pragmatistic, so you owe consideration because we’re fixing it right now,” Winter said of industry..........






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Old 14th Jun 2019, 07:14
  #11899 (permalink)  
 
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Yet again demonstrating how extremes of temperature can severely affect man and machine, as Napoleon and the Wehrmacht found to their cost in Russia and ‘hot & heavy’ fixed wing (esp STOVL) and rotary aircraft have experienced in more recent operations.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 07:27
  #11900 (permalink)  
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I wouldn’t call 32C extreme - but it does reveal the extremely low thrust margin available in the F135 engine for STOVL landings. Temperatures in the Gulf can reach and exceed 50C.
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