OMG!! What next?

[Grimweasel]

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Defence Policy and Business | First LGBT conference held in MOD Main Building

I guess next we will invite adversaries from the Taliban to come and lecture us on how they intend to kill us? Where is the normal heterosexual's conference? Talk about positive discrimination? Load of utter balls...

[Two's in]

Clearly the LBGT agenda is achieving significant inroads towards changing entrenched attitudes in the Services.

[D O Guerrero]

"Don't get me wrong, I have no issues at all, hell I work closely with a fair few and theyre as professional and normal as the next person" (sic).

How very big of you. Gay people really need validation like that. Next you'll be telling us that some of your best friends are black?
I would agree that this is probably not the most pressing issue facing the MOD, but compared to the grotesque waste of money that is evident across large swathes of the Department, this is nothing. It cost a few quid in coffee, biscuits and travel would be my guess and must be a fraction on what the MOD spends on funding all kinds of other questionable activities. Perhaps what the majority of the posters object to is that it involves gay people and must therefore be a total waste of money and time. If you just said that, it might be a bit more honest?
Would you be saying the same thing if the conference was about ethnic minorities? Somehow I doubt it...

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Unchecked. I think you've just rubbed someone's sore spot. Thank you for saving me the trouble.

At a time when every penny is being squeezed out of the Defence Budget, this sort of caring sharing froth does significantly grip many of us. Whether it's sex, race, sexual polarity, culture, Faith or whatever is considered important for individuals in minorities, it inevitably diverts resources away from the day job. Remember the 3 circle leadership diagram? When times are hard, perhaps the "individual" circle should shrink a bit.

[barnstormer1968]

Unchecked

You have discovered the reason why SOME think this type of thing is necessary.

You said:
"Don't get me wrong, I have no issues at all, hell I work closely with a fair few and theyre as professional and normal as the next person"

And there you have it in a nut shell. You clearly state you have no problem with this, so some tender type assumes you do, and not only that decides your words are wrong (a bit like Hitler's regime, and Stalin's regime did....You know, the things we fought against).

So, If you say (and it would be pretentious not to take you at your word) you have no problem, some will assume you do. If you say you have a problem, some will still assume you do!

Now as sexuality does not necessarily relate to anyone's work role, I can guarantee you that I could find over 500 other issues that could also be addressed in the work place, are which affect service personnels lives daily, but they will not have a conference etc all of their own.

Maybe there should be courses on 'passive aggression' which is a particularly nasty, negative and unfriendly behaviour type.

I'm sure you may have met the type. They will want you to see things their way, and to steer you via devious means or try to put you down, if you don't want to do things 'their' way.

There are even worse types though....Cowardly and lacking in substance/morals in my eyes. The type of person who is really 'passionate' about gay or black and minority ethnic people being treated as equals, but start in areas where this is already mostly achieved, rather than booking them selves on a flight to Afghanistan or some other place in need of education, where it would be harder to achieve

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Maybe we should seek funding for a white, heterosexual, well balanced, naturally cynical male only conference as with almost 36 years served the vast majority of folk I have had the pleasure of meeting fall into this category.

But that would exclude the all the females or gay , bi sexual or black, asian, oriental, etc etc folk I have had the pleasure of meeting who are also well balanced naturally cynical and thoroughly decent individuals.

The problem for those of us in the silent majority is that no matter what we say some sad tosser will always take offence at it and then insist we need "training" to cure us

[BEagle]

"Meet Bloggs - he's a gay, black AEO"
"Good grief, how utterly appalling. He's an AEO you say???"

[anotherthing]

...It cost a few quid in coffee, biscuits and travel would be my guess...

Not biscuits, but fairy cakes, surely

If 'minority groups' want to be treated normally (as they should be), why do they have to have special conferences... surely this only puts their heads above the parapets?

[D O Guerrero]

Yeah, best they just keep quiet. Let's not rock the boat eh. Just fit in with what everyone else wants to see. Don't talk about yourself... ever. Don't mention your "partner" at work just in case some ignorant tosser takes offence. And don't whatever you do dream of inviting them to a social function. Stay at home and have a miserable time instead.
I think this thread is rapidly beginning to explain why some people feel that these kind of conferences are increasingly necessary. Not saying I do, but I think I can see their point.
The sad thing is, its usually the biggest closet cases that have the most grievance with it.

[glad rag]

Nope your not getting it are you?
It's NOT the conference subject but the fact that it's being funded in these austere times when people are quite literally looking over their shoulders and wondering about their jobs.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Glad,

The opening post and subsequent posts are way too subtle for the likes of D O who epitomises all that is wrong with the RAF I have known over the last 36 years

[cornish-stormrider]

(Sorry for swearing again Wholi BUT)

For ****'s Sake!!!

What a bunch of Whiney assed pansy liberal hand wringing wussies, (not the LBGT movement or whatever their acronym is this week but the pansies who decide we need a special conference about them.)

This is the military - man the **** up or PVR (or wimmin up etc,)

For all those who have trouble sleeping aat night worrying about this crap - there is a war on, and a big reccession, and lots of pissed off troops everywhere who don't need more admin ****e dropped on them and here you REMF's are organising a conference for something.

If you are that concerned about this why not put a global SRO out or whatever and list all the nasty bullying offences and their punishments, then punish the racists and scumbags rather than make the rest of the service sit thru more **** that any infant with an ounce of common knows

there is also obviously the line about banter - if the victim can't hack the banter then the victim does not belong in the services!

Banter breeds character and morale and gives a very good indication of who your mates are and who you can rely on when the chips are down.

To all those sausage side I salute you, to all those back I welcome you home, to all those at QEH or Headley get well soon and to all who didn't make it back I will hoist a large one when the sun hits the yardarm,

Stand Easy and well done.



Now as to these desk driving blotter jotters..... would you like to be transferred to the Brownies?

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by D O Guerrero

, this is nothing. It cost a few quid in coffee, biscuits and travel would be my guess and must be a fraction on what the MOD spends on funding all kinds of other questionable activities. Perhaps what the majority of the posters object to is that it involves gay people and must therefore be a total waste of money and time. If you just said that, it might be a bit more honest?
Would you be saying the same thing if the conference was about ethnic minorities? Somehow I doubt it...

This is a very centric view point. T&S for those in outlying reaches of the MOD would not be inconsiderable.

There was a call to a meeting last year when the T&S taps was being screwed shut for all MOD Media staff. The address list had over 100 names; had all gone it would have been between 100 and 150 man days, and T&S at a conservative £150/head or around £150k say.

LGBT might cost a similar amount if people exercised their rights. Remember the conference is open to all MOD being an equal opportunity employer and all that.

Another item for cull would be dBlearning with its learning faciltiators and similar manpower and T&S costs.

[flipster]

No-one ever organised a conference for all us short, Welsh, fat blokes - we were also a minority and were often bullied or discriminated against.
But its easy to take the banter when you feel so superior to the natives (of In-ger-land!)

Flipster
Trustee of the Short Welsh Fat Blokes Association

[Wholigan]

I'm away for a couple of days.

This is obviously a very emotive subject.

I rather hope that posters will control themselves and stay within the bounds. Please rest assured that those who do not, will soon find themselves ex-members of PPRuNe upon my return!

Sorry to be blunt, but I consider it necessary.

[charliegolf]

Gay people really need validation like that

DO,

Why do they need any validation at all?

CG

Flipster: they did, but that was in the days when we were slim so we were discriminated against.

[cornish-stormrider]

I thought I'd better claify my last before Wholi gives me two weeks in the cooler -

TBH - a persons sexual orientation is no business but their own as long as both parties are consenting adults. Same way apersons faith is their own business and no-one can help where they were born or the colour of their skin - even the Welshists!

But I do take issue with these things being foisted upon society in general, as I have said I have no issue BUT my faith conflicts with my views about sexual orientation - I can still live with that as I am not going to judge someone else by the rules I CHOOSE to live by.

What rather winds me up is where the PC brigade try to order my Faith to allow those of a different sexual lifestyle to have a faith based wedding - which goes very much against the teachings of my faith.

If invividual ministers and pastors wished to allow them on an individual level - thats up to them but for me I do not want that.

Now, as to those who wish to interfere so they are senn "to be doing so" just butt out, rack off, take a running jump etc.

Society has changed, for the better generally with regards race, creed and orientation etc. It does not need you to push this minority or that minority at the expense of any other - also, you will find that we are ALL a minority in one way or another and I don't remember being given a conference on what makes me a member of my minority.

Wholi - was that one any better, I think I managed a whole post that was reasonable, non profane, and quite balanced - Oh Balderdash!

[Neptunus Rex]

D O Guerrero,

Your public profile states that you fly the B737. Did you ever serve in any of H M Forces?

[Two's in]

Whereas I always enjoyed being a member of one of the last (legally) remaining bastions of white heterosexual male supremacy, like everything else, society moves on. If you've never been truly discriminated against, it's difficult to understand just how pervasive and damaging it can be. The Alf Garnett/Archie Bunker stereotypes are easy to deal with, as they wear their badges of bigotry proudly, but it's the bigotry of ignorance that is hard to defeat. When you truly don't comprehend how your behavior is insulting or threatening towards others simply because of their race, gender, orientation or beliefs, you are the one with the problem. Ask the family of Stephen Lawrence if they believe Britain is one big happy racially diverse family, or the parents of the teenagers who commit suicide rather than admit to being gay whether we live in a society based on acceptance.

Yes I know very well that the Forces are NOT representative of Society as a whole; but we recruit from Society and we return to Society. It makes perfect sense therefore that while serving we become familar and attuned to societal norms. When the Forces demonstrate that no bias exists because of one's sexual orientation, then we can call a halt to the odd LBGT coffee morning or two. Until then maybe we could use our excess testosterone and outrage to ensure that ALL members of our very select club our treated with the dignity and respect they deserve.

[BEagle]

I'm away for a couple of days.

How was London, Wholi'?