Flying the Canberra
Correct - B.2 had 1. Our B.2s (A84-125 and A84-307) here in Oz were converted to T.21 trainers and retained what we called the "Avon Mk 1" with single cartridge. Similarly, our early B.20s were spec'd on the B.2 and had the single-cartridge Avon Mk 1 (aircraft A84-201 to A84-227).
The later B.20 production (A84-228 to A84-248) were spec'd on the B.6 and had the "Avon Mk 109" engine with the triple cartridge breech.
On a related matter, I saw B.20 A84-242 in the paint shop at RAAF Amberley on Tuesday. It was being primed in readiness for its Vietnam camouflage scheme for display in the base's Aircraft Heritage Centre.
The later B.20 production (A84-228 to A84-248) were spec'd on the B.6 and had the "Avon Mk 109" engine with the triple cartridge breech.
On a related matter, I saw B.20 A84-242 in the paint shop at RAAF Amberley on Tuesday. It was being primed in readiness for its Vietnam camouflage scheme for display in the base's Aircraft Heritage Centre.
Last edited by BBadanov; 12th Apr 2013 at 03:21.
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Cartridges
The cartridges were bigger than might be expected and made of brass. The quality was excellent in the early days but fell off towards the end. You will often see them being sold in antiques shops and booter. Most people think they are cannon shell but the base is marked "Crt Elec St" which gives a clue there is a range of ops so something No 9 mK 2 for example.
Cartridges or cartridges depending on the type were held in a fitting at the front centre of the intake fronted by a large knurled knob suitable for hand operation. The knob had a button in the centre. To undo the fitting bash the knob in firmly and unscrew the fitting about five turns. The fitting and attached cartridge may now be withdrawn and a new cartridge fitted to the claws. Replace is revers. We normally carried a rack of six cartridges in the rear hatch.
We were fond of borrowing the cartidges which could be cut down to excllent ash trays or fitted with a handle and plated to make a beer mug. Mostly we kept the cartridges which had special significance such as after an accident or the last one on retirment. No one seemed to mind where they went, there was no obvious auditing or recording.
Cartridges or cartridges depending on the type were held in a fitting at the front centre of the intake fronted by a large knurled knob suitable for hand operation. The knob had a button in the centre. To undo the fitting bash the knob in firmly and unscrew the fitting about five turns. The fitting and attached cartridge may now be withdrawn and a new cartridge fitted to the claws. Replace is revers. We normally carried a rack of six cartridges in the rear hatch.
We were fond of borrowing the cartidges which could be cut down to excllent ash trays or fitted with a handle and plated to make a beer mug. Mostly we kept the cartridges which had special significance such as after an accident or the last one on retirment. No one seemed to mind where they went, there was no obvious auditing or recording.
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Tinribs is correct – there was no auditing from what I can remember and a ‘useful’ commodity they were too!
I remember staging through Nice and being told that it could take an age to get fuel.
So using my ‘initiative’ I stood in front of the jet with arms held high holding the 2 used cartridges – instant BP truck!!
I remember staging through Nice and being told that it could take an age to get fuel.
So using my ‘initiative’ I stood in front of the jet with arms held high holding the 2 used cartridges – instant BP truck!!
Last edited by PCDC; 12th Apr 2013 at 11:33.
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A starter breach failure away from home sorted out the men from the boys. The way round it was to start one engine using the good breach. Get the nav to stand in front of the running engine, unscrew the breach and then screw in the duff one.
He would then screw the good breach with a fresh cart into the other engine and Robert's your father's brother!
Letting go of the breach at the moment critique involved a LOT of paperwork.
He would then screw the good breach with a fresh cart into the other engine and Robert's your father's brother!
Letting go of the breach at the moment critique involved a LOT of paperwork.
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Last edited by NutLoose; 12th Apr 2013 at 11:47.
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Start up
Wadd HC and others:
Some footage here of Canberra start ups. My Dad, Eric (Started on the OCU at Bassingborne in 54 finsished on the OCU at Wyton before going to RAE) can be seen struggling with his ear defenders. He is now deaf!
We have several carts at home. the older ones are certainly better made and better brass. I spent many hours with Brasso/ wadpol.
One of my last EWAU design jobs was the bigger AvPIN tank cover for the 9. correcting a FRA Bournmouth cock up where the leading edge cover interfered with the cap.
Some footage here of Canberra start ups. My Dad, Eric (Started on the OCU at Bassingborne in 54 finsished on the OCU at Wyton before going to RAE) can be seen struggling with his ear defenders. He is now deaf!
We have several carts at home. the older ones are certainly better made and better brass. I spent many hours with Brasso/ wadpol.
One of my last EWAU design jobs was the bigger AvPIN tank cover for the 9. correcting a FRA Bournmouth cock up where the leading edge cover interfered with the cap.
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I had seen some conflicting info on the web and knew this would be the right place to clear it up 
Think I read that the early ones only had 2 exhaust for the starter and 3 on the later marks which is one of the ways to spot the difference on start up if needed.
Think I read that the early ones only had 2 exhaust for the starter and 3 on the later marks which is one of the ways to spot the difference on start up if needed.
I was on the B(I)8's at Wildenrath, the starter held 3 cartridges and had 3 exhausts. We often had to do single engine starts and we left the engine covers on the other engine. Most of our engine covers had 3 holes which lined up with the starter exhausts. I did it once, starting the LH (No1)engine and looking at the ground crew and feeling for the start button pressed the wrong one. No damage done, the engine covers didn't get sucked in.
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Oldlae, you have taken me back in time! Dad was the admin NCO on 88 Sqdn and I played football for the sqdn. I have put a number of photos of
XH134 at Kemble on to the HAA ( Historic Aircraft Association ) website.
XH134 at Kemble on to the HAA ( Historic Aircraft Association ) website.
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There are some first-hand accounts of Canberra flying (PR7, TT18/B2/T4) during the 1970s (XIII Sqn and 7 Sqn) in Winged Warriors - The Cold War from the Cockpit. (See www.wingedwarriors.co.uk)
Last edited by MMHendrie1; 13th Apr 2013 at 11:59. Reason: typing error
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B(i)8 16 Squadron Laarbruch
I wonder if anybody here could help me with a question concerning the very beginning of Canberras on Laarbruch being equipped with US nuclear bombs.
When did the QRA-business start?
Must have been in 1960. Any exact date?
There is a report by Grp Cpt Wheeler about a C-130 bringing the first nuclear weapons to Laarbruch.
It says: 1960.
Interesting story, by the way:
When did the QRA-business start?
Must have been in 1960. Any exact date?
There is a report by Grp Cpt Wheeler about a C-130 bringing the first nuclear weapons to Laarbruch.
It says: 1960.
Interesting story, by the way:
I suppose far and away the greatest incident during my time at Laarbruch was the arrival of the American tactical nuclear weapons in 1960. We were to be the first RAF station in Germany to
receive these weapons which were to be used by No. 16 Squadron then equipped with Canberras. We had been given due warning that the weapons were going to be flown to us from a base in France. My Wing Commander Flying, then Wing Commander W.E. Colahan ( who has since died ) was under the impression that the weapons would be delivered in a twin-engined C82-Transport. In fact, on the day, they came in a CI30 which is considerably bigger.
-After landing, the C 130 was taxying to the nuclear weapon site when it struck a tree with one of its wings and ruptured its fuel tanks. I had a very difficult situation on my hands because the young and inexperienced American guards, who were fully armed, immediately surrounded the aircraft and wouldn't let the fire-engine on the airfield get anywhere near the aircraft. This
was extremely serious and I had to take a firm stand. I explained that, unless the U.S. guards allowed the fire tender to spread foam on the fuel, because of the nuclear weapons etc., I would have to use force to overpower them. There were not many of them, and they finally and very reluctantly gave way. I had explained to the young captain that we had no interest in looking at
the weapons, but it was most serious to have all the fuel flowing from the aircraft with nothing being done about it. I assured him that I would do all in my power to protect him from his authorities who might consider that he should not have allowed anybody to get near the aircraft.
receive these weapons which were to be used by No. 16 Squadron then equipped with Canberras. We had been given due warning that the weapons were going to be flown to us from a base in France. My Wing Commander Flying, then Wing Commander W.E. Colahan ( who has since died ) was under the impression that the weapons would be delivered in a twin-engined C82-Transport. In fact, on the day, they came in a CI30 which is considerably bigger.
-After landing, the C 130 was taxying to the nuclear weapon site when it struck a tree with one of its wings and ruptured its fuel tanks. I had a very difficult situation on my hands because the young and inexperienced American guards, who were fully armed, immediately surrounded the aircraft and wouldn't let the fire-engine on the airfield get anywhere near the aircraft. This
was extremely serious and I had to take a firm stand. I explained that, unless the U.S. guards allowed the fire tender to spread foam on the fuel, because of the nuclear weapons etc., I would have to use force to overpower them. There were not many of them, and they finally and very reluctantly gave way. I had explained to the young captain that we had no interest in looking at
the weapons, but it was most serious to have all the fuel flowing from the aircraft with nothing being done about it. I assured him that I would do all in my power to protect him from his authorities who might consider that he should not have allowed anybody to get near the aircraft.
Hmmm,
I have to wonder about this reported incident. I know of an RAF Albert hitting a tree, and doing some damage, at Wildenrath. Never heard of the "injured Albert" shipping nukes. Maybe it was one of the "cousins" Alberts? Whatever I've just finished reading Mike Brooks, Bucket of Sunshine, a great read and no mention of such an incident. I bet someone on the Mil forum will know something though
I have to wonder about this reported incident. I know of an RAF Albert hitting a tree, and doing some damage, at Wildenrath. Never heard of the "injured Albert" shipping nukes. Maybe it was one of the "cousins" Alberts? Whatever I've just finished reading Mike Brooks, Bucket of Sunshine, a great read and no mention of such an incident. I bet someone on the Mil forum will know something though
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Bucket of Sunshine
I've read the "Bucket of Sunshine" as well. Great book with a lot of interesting information.
But Mike Brooke arrived at Laarbruch sometime mid 1964.
Is "Albert" the nickname for the Hercules C-130? Never heard it before.
But Mike Brooke arrived at Laarbruch sometime mid 1964.
Is "Albert" the nickname for the Hercules C-130? Never heard it before.
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95i,
Yes. 'Albert' is the nickname of the C -130. Rather like the nick name 'Cranberry' for the Canberra. Although the latter is a name coined very late in the Canberra's life, since I was on Canberras for 16 years in the 60s and 70s and we never called it a Cranberry.
Yes. 'Albert' is the nickname of the C -130. Rather like the nick name 'Cranberry' for the Canberra. Although the latter is a name coined very late in the Canberra's life, since I was on Canberras for 16 years in the 60s and 70s and we never called it a Cranberry.
Last edited by Lukeafb1; 7th Jun 2013 at 08:49.
I was on Canberras from late '60s to mid '70s, never heard the term 'Cranberry' until I joined the RAF in 1979.
Which was also the first time I heard the F-4 called the 'Toom', or "Tomb'.
Which was also the first time I heard the F-4 called the 'Toom', or "Tomb'.
In acknowledging that 'Fat Albert' is a nickname adopted in the RAF for the C-130, I believe that the name may have been first used for the C-5A within USAF's Military Airlift Command. It was certainly already in being when the first aircraft arrived at Travis AFB in 1970, with HQ MAC trying hard, but fruitlessly, to stamp it out. (And I don't recall ever hearing anyone at that time use the term for a 130.)
The aircraft in the alleged incident would have been a USAF C-130, the RAF Hercules entered service in the late 60s (The mention of the C-82 points to it being one of the very early USAF Hercules).
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"Bucket of Sunshine!
Just finished it on my kindle this afternoon, very entertaining read.
Moved onto "Warthog" about the A-10s in GW1, not as yet entertaining, but will give it a chance.
Moved onto "Warthog" about the A-10s in GW1, not as yet entertaining, but will give it a chance.