Lyneham Closure, Westminster Hall Debate 6 Jan 2010
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I heard they were looking to move South Cerney & Hullavington in. The MOD can't sell the land because it's not their's, as with most of the airfields acquired in the pre-war expansion period they have to be returned to the former owners, so an alternative MOD user will be required.
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Originally Posted by downsizer
Grunts from Gutersloh is the latest rumour...
I am in possession of a lengthy reply to James Gray's debate, it is signed off by Bill Rammell, as soon as James agrees to release it to the press I'll post a link up on here.
Last edited by JFZ90; 18th Feb 2010 at 20:10. Reason: sp
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I fear that people have become resigned to the fact that the end is nigh for the base.
I think that you are correct and that most people are now more concerned with either keeping their current bases or indeed keeping their jobs. There are going to be a lot of servicemen joining the mass ranks of the unemployed.
There should be a load of politicians, treasury mandarins and bankers joining those massed ranks, not service personel.
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The likely further consolidation of RAF bases following SDR will make the decision to close LYE seem very wise. The question is will the RAF have any runway S of the M4 - is even BDN safe?
Considering all things, maybe we should consolidate to one or two superbases, certainly nothing in Scotland, they can fund their own. AD could use civilian airports. Think of the savings in manpower alone. Only need a couple of station commanders and no need for so many senior officers! That has got to be a good thing.
Likewise with the army, consolidate it to one regiment, and base them all somewhere like Tidworth or Catterick in one super garrision.
As for the navy I don't think they go to sea these days, so again consolidate all the ships to one base(there probably still won't be enough to fill it) take your pick of Portsmouth or Plymouth?
Likewise with the army, consolidate it to one regiment, and base them all somewhere like Tidworth or Catterick in one super garrision.
As for the navy I don't think they go to sea these days, so again consolidate all the ships to one base(there probably still won't be enough to fill it) take your pick of Portsmouth or Plymouth?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
PN Unfortunately until the government appoint an independant review, ie one not influenced by Senior officers, there will never be any proper change in the way things are run. But surely someone in governement can see that you cannot rely on senior officers to cull their own numbers.
There is a similar debate at the moment about he police. Notice how ACPO are saying it will lead to loss of front line jobs etc. Well how about reducing the number of police forces to say 13-15 in the UK, creating regional forces. A couple for Scotland, split say East-West, Wales a couple split North-South etc. We can then sack/demote 30 chief constables and their command chains as surplus to requirements.
Of course it will never happen, although you never know.......
There is a similar debate at the moment about he police. Notice how ACPO are saying it will lead to loss of front line jobs etc. Well how about reducing the number of police forces to say 13-15 in the UK, creating regional forces. A couple for Scotland, split say East-West, Wales a couple split North-South etc. We can then sack/demote 30 chief constables and their command chains as surplus to requirements.
Of course it will never happen, although you never know.......
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The future of Lyneham was raised at Prime minister's questions today (02:00 mins from start of clip):
BBC - Democracy Live - Prime minister's questions
We live in hope of a change in the plan. Just to reinvigorate the debate: Brize needed the work that has been already been done, doing to it anyway. The cost of cancelling could save money in the short - middle term which is what this country sorely needs to do at the moment.
BBC - Democracy Live - Prime minister's questions
We live in hope of a change in the plan. Just to reinvigorate the debate: Brize needed the work that has been already been done, doing to it anyway. The cost of cancelling could save money in the short - middle term which is what this country sorely needs to do at the moment.
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Has anyone considered.............
The BZZ/LYE discussion will continue, but imagine a simple but realistic scenario as follows..... An 'aircraft' departs BZZ (LYE now closed) with such freight as to be 'EXTREMELY MILITARY'. We are servicing a war zone so you know exactly what sort of freight we are talking about !! Soon as airborne there are many failures to a/c systems that could necessitate a RTB situation. BZZ closed because of weather ! I now wonder where this a/c will be accepted by a civilian authority, who will be there to meet it and above all, what security will be available at short notice. This is only one straight forward event that is realistic and could happen quite easily. Don't , by the way, forget the other a/c with 40 x theatre ready troops and 3 x pallets of mail that end up in Newcastle or Prestwick at short notice . I'm sure the MOD have exhausted themselves in laying out Contigency Plans for such obvious events.
Only two outbounds.........a quiet day. Just now think about the hyperthetical six inbounds to BZZ(closed due same problem) arriving from all our various theatres we have stuck our unwanted fingers into and lets decide at short notice where they are going to land. The crews and pax at 3 a.m. will be beside themselves with delight to find they have hours of frustration and upset before anything can be organised. Not due to lack of organisation, but because again in its short sightednes, the MOD have slashed manning levels of trained staff to deal with these scenarios.
Summary: Simple but feasable story leaves us with 8 assorted a/c around U.K. out of position, unable to fill their next schedule, crews out of place, and costs etc.etc. all in one day. How long to put these cracked/broken eggs back into their one basket at BZZ ?
Only two outbounds.........a quiet day. Just now think about the hyperthetical six inbounds to BZZ(closed due same problem) arriving from all our various theatres we have stuck our unwanted fingers into and lets decide at short notice where they are going to land. The crews and pax at 3 a.m. will be beside themselves with delight to find they have hours of frustration and upset before anything can be organised. Not due to lack of organisation, but because again in its short sightednes, the MOD have slashed manning levels of trained staff to deal with these scenarios.
Summary: Simple but feasable story leaves us with 8 assorted a/c around U.K. out of position, unable to fill their next schedule, crews out of place, and costs etc.etc. all in one day. How long to put these cracked/broken eggs back into their one basket at BZZ ?
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I recall when the Strategic Defence Review was made in 2003 that a 'Save Lyneham' study which was spearheaded by James Gray, supported the reasons for the future of Wiltshires airbase, with a 11,600 signature petition to keep the base open. The base offers over £75M per annum to the local community. Despite all the supported and valid rationale to keep Lyneham, The then Defence secretary ignored the study papers as his mind was already in concrete to keep Brize. ( A letter on the public domain assured the Governers of the Falkland Islands that Brize was to remain open as the link for the South Atlantic Island) We saw BLAIR lie to the people of Lyneham saying that Lyneham was to remain open (April 2003) then announce July 2003 it was to close. There has been an air of neglect displayed by the government, if they knew the true facts then they would think logically. Put all you eggs in one basket at your peril
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The likely further consolidation of RAF bases following SDR will make the decision to close LYE seem very wise. The question is will the RAF have any runway S of the M4 - is even BDN safe?
Hardly a wise decision!!!
All other arguments about operational effectiveness etc pale into insignificance against that kind of moronic financial planning....
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ily. Don't , by the way, forget the other a/c with 40 x theatre ready troops and 3 x pallets of mail that end up in Newcastle or Prestwick at short notice . I'm sure the MOD have exhausted themselves in laying out Contigency Plans for such obvious events.
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I know you would welcome the fictcious A/C as in reality I have experienced RNAS Prestwick's hospitality as a C130 crew member in the past !! Hospitality in 'extremis'. Having dealt with your first a/c look behind you at the Antonov, 2 x Chartered DC-8s, Air Italy Charter (224 pax ) and the lonely 2 x C130s awaiting your tender administrations 'cause your airfield is the only viable option. How long does the coach ride from Prestwick to Aldershot / Plymouth take ? I bet its fun.
Knowing the Senior Service I have no doubt of your ability but to the wider organisations involved, are there contingency plans in place should this sort of scenario develop ?
Knowing the Senior Service I have no doubt of your ability but to the wider organisations involved, are there contingency plans in place should this sort of scenario develop ?
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We are bankrupt as a nation at the moment, so paying upfront to consolidate all AT at Brize Norton with the expectation of savings in the future is ludicrous. James Gray has indeed gone very quiet post election, I can only assume that he is fighting hard behind the scenes for sense to prevail.
I particularly enjoyed the article in the Bzn Gateway magazine talking about the training week in May and how, 'all the C130 crews are fully onboard with the move to Brize' as a result of the successful training there - and no mention of XV304.
I particularly enjoyed the article in the Bzn Gateway magazine talking about the training week in May and how, 'all the C130 crews are fully onboard with the move to Brize' as a result of the successful training there - and no mention of XV304.