Lyneham Closure, Westminster Hall Debate 6 Jan 2010
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The point about including the closure of Lyneham in the forthcoming SDR is crucial.. There is a possibility that the Army will need accommodation for soldiers currently housed in Germany. However they will not know for sure until the future of those serving in Germany has been assured. Until then, understandably the Army will not be willing to takeover the running costs of the domestic site. There is still a real chance that Lyneham has a military future. There could well be a need for line servicing to take place after the closure date.
As the future size of British Army is tied up in SDR, so too should the final decision on the closure of RAF Lyneham.
Whatever happens, I cannot foresee a situation where Lyneham remains a fully functioning airbase open 24 hours a day.
The cost saving are 25mil per year. I am in the process of finding out how many years it will take before savings are realised by the closure.
I suspect the cost of the move greatly exceeds the 200mil generally quoted.
As the future size of British Army is tied up in SDR, so too should the final decision on the closure of RAF Lyneham.
Whatever happens, I cannot foresee a situation where Lyneham remains a fully functioning airbase open 24 hours a day.
The cost saving are 25mil per year. I am in the process of finding out how many years it will take before savings are realised by the closure.
I suspect the cost of the move greatly exceeds the 200mil generally quoted.
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I agree that the window for a PAUSE TO EVALUATE is closing. Once things like simulators start to move; that’s it. At the moment a lot of the hard work being done at Brize was needed or planned anyway; so it would not all have been in vain.
Instead of the MoD bearing the entire cost of running an airfield, why didn’t the MoD consider a civil, military partnership. Lyneham would make an ideal business jet airfield. Some areas could be entirely handed over as civil-side, with savings made from selling off parts of the site & saving made by not having to maintain those former areas anymore.
Lyneham would be an ideal landing ground for the 2012 Olympics. Centrally located between the Cardiff, Weymouth, London & Birmingham sites with excellent transport links close by.
Of note the Facebook ‘Save RAF Lyneham’ group has over 8000 members (almost a 1/5 the size of the air force)
Instead of the MoD bearing the entire cost of running an airfield, why didn’t the MoD consider a civil, military partnership. Lyneham would make an ideal business jet airfield. Some areas could be entirely handed over as civil-side, with savings made from selling off parts of the site & saving made by not having to maintain those former areas anymore.
Lyneham would be an ideal landing ground for the 2012 Olympics. Centrally located between the Cardiff, Weymouth, London & Birmingham sites with excellent transport links close by.
Of note the Facebook ‘Save RAF Lyneham’ group has over 8000 members (almost a 1/5 the size of the air force)
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I disagree that the MOD can't afford to keep Lyneham open - it can't afford to close it. The savings are all long term with a break even point in 2025 by which time things may have changed again & those savings never realised. How can a bankrupt RAF afford the £180 million cost of closure & moving to Brize? And as for the £10 million to return the site 'to the people' - when the RAF 'gave' Abingdon to the army in the 90s it cost £80 million to prepare the site for them.
The closure should be put on hold, & for no other reason than it's unaffordable at the moment.
The closure should be put on hold, & for no other reason than it's unaffordable at the moment.
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Ken,
you're spot on there. But that £180M doesn't include the cost of new housing. So The break even point is way further to the right.
Lose money to lose capability: Genius!!
As far of PNR with regards to expenditure; such little has occurred at BZN other than more pan space, you'd be forgiven for thinking nothing was going to happen. Doesn't look like the building of an AT hub to me!!
you're spot on there. But that £180M doesn't include the cost of new housing. So The break even point is way further to the right.
Lose money to lose capability: Genius!!
As far of PNR with regards to expenditure; such little has occurred at BZN other than more pan space, you'd be forgiven for thinking nothing was going to happen. Doesn't look like the building of an AT hub to me!!
I have regularly read about the lack of AT assets currently available. I was, however, shocked to see the figures posted earlier. 34 Hercs left? Thats ALL?
I was one of the Training Co-Ords at LYE from 89-93 and when I left we had 60 and I'd regularly have 13 or more on my training program!!
Message to government: -
Either stop acting as if we are a real world power or fund us to be one again.
As for closing LYE...........
Shocking, truly shocking.
Doc C
I was one of the Training Co-Ords at LYE from 89-93 and when I left we had 60 and I'd regularly have 13 or more on my training program!!
Message to government: -
Either stop acting as if we are a real world power or fund us to be one again.
As for closing LYE...........
Shocking, truly shocking.
Doc C
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Farfrompuken,
Agreed, if they purchase the new housing estate in Faringdon which is one plan to make up the shortfall in housing then that will add £200 million to the bill. It doesn't seem to add up to good value!
Agreed, if they purchase the new housing estate in Faringdon which is one plan to make up the shortfall in housing then that will add £200 million to the bill. It doesn't seem to add up to good value!
Last edited by Ken Scott; 28th Jan 2010 at 17:09. Reason: Edited for spellung
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Ken,
That plan (Faringdon) was kyboshed by the restrictions on purchase of the estate.
I heard £250k per house was the last quote for new-builds at BZN! Someone was planning to take them to the cleaners!!
As yet no-one knows what the accommodation plot will be. Anyone have kids to school etc etc??!! A good reason to get out of this mess before all dignity is lost.
It is, quite simply, utterly barking mad and an obscene waste of taxpayers money. I'm surprised the NAO haven't torn this to shreds!
That plan (Faringdon) was kyboshed by the restrictions on purchase of the estate.
I heard £250k per house was the last quote for new-builds at BZN! Someone was planning to take them to the cleaners!!
As yet no-one knows what the accommodation plot will be. Anyone have kids to school etc etc??!! A good reason to get out of this mess before all dignity is lost.
It is, quite simply, utterly barking mad and an obscene waste of taxpayers money. I'm surprised the NAO haven't torn this to shreds!
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That has been suggested, Mr Dyson purchasing Lyneham to use as his personal airport (where he keeps his ac already), & I'm sure he'd take it for nothing so that we don't have to pay the clean-up costs. He might even let us conduct training in the circuit (which we won't be able to do at Brize because of the noise issue), at a price of course!
Watched the Staish on the local news, a rather unconvincing performance I thought, & no suggestion of what is going to fill the vacuum. Only last week the Staish was in the local paper - Gazette & Herald - doing a similar PR job in support of the closure. It's plain that he's been given a mission, sell the closure or don't get Air Commodore.
Watched the Staish on the local news, a rather unconvincing performance I thought, & no suggestion of what is going to fill the vacuum. Only last week the Staish was in the local paper - Gazette & Herald - doing a similar PR job in support of the closure. It's plain that he's been given a mission, sell the closure or don't get Air Commodore.
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If Gladys has managed to convince himself that this whole goat-f***ing exercise is such a great idea, then that's between him and his conscience. However the mendacity of declaring that most Lyneham personnel also think that it is such a good thing is simply staggering.
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Just read Stn Cdrs article...
quote..."but the personnel who work and live on the base say it’s the only way forward."unquote.
agree with FJH, not sure that Lyneham personnel would buy into that. As for me? I would reverse the closure in a heartbeat!!
GM
quote..."but the personnel who work and live on the base say it’s the only way forward."unquote.
agree with FJH, not sure that Lyneham personnel would buy into that. As for me? I would reverse the closure in a heartbeat!!
GM
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Apart from a few of those who live in the top corridor I have yet to meet anyone at Lyneham who thinks this is a good thing 
But like BOCS we are simply going to have to suck it up and get on with it
But like BOCS we are simply going to have to suck it up and get on with it
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Closing a base & relocating the assets to another base, with a similar aircraft type, is ‘relatively’ simple & quickly achieves the desired cost savings; this is not the case with Lyneham & Brize.
As this thread developed I was expecting to see lots of emotional & strategic reasons for keeping Lyneham open. What is now happening is that more & more financial reasons are being posted. What evidence these claims are underpinned by I don’t know, but surely someone at an appropriate level in this process should now be calling for the estimate to be reassessed. This country can ill afford another defence budget faux pas.
As this thread developed I was expecting to see lots of emotional & strategic reasons for keeping Lyneham open. What is now happening is that more & more financial reasons are being posted. What evidence these claims are underpinned by I don’t know, but surely someone at an appropriate level in this process should now be calling for the estimate to be reassessed. This country can ill afford another defence budget faux pas.
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If Gladys has managed to convince himself that this whole goat-f***ing exercise is such a great idea, then that's between him and his conscience. However the mendacity of declaring that most Lyneham personnel also think that it is such a good thing is simply staggering
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Suited for air-rank indeed:
"..... but the personnel who live and work on the base see that it is the only way forward........"
In a way that's perfectly true, as they're all smart enough to see that the move will be forced through regardless that it appears to lack any operational or apparent financial benefit.
Malcolm Tucker himself would be most proud if this tour-de-force in spin.
"..... but the personnel who live and work on the base see that it is the only way forward........"
In a way that's perfectly true, as they're all smart enough to see that the move will be forced through regardless that it appears to lack any operational or apparent financial benefit.
Malcolm Tucker himself would be most proud if this tour-de-force in spin.
Just heard him on BBC Wiltshire this morning, on for about an hour. I know nothing about the finances, but I do know a good choice in music when i hear it. - The Jams 'Down in a Tubestation at midnight' and Green days 'Good Riddance (Time of your life).
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Does anyone have any piccies of the "new" building allocated to the three Lyneham squadrons when they relocate next year? Would appreciate any cooperation I am trying to organize a counterpoint to the establishment view of the move. I understand the shoe horning of the three squadrons into a dilapidated and totally unsuitable building must be at "no cost".
Pictures speak louder than words..
Pictures speak louder than words..
Last edited by nigegilb; 3rd Feb 2010 at 08:02.