Lyneham Closure, Westminster Hall Debate 6 Jan 2010
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: england
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The long and short of it is, that EVERYONE bar one or two people know it is an outrageously short sighted and dare I say it, idiotic decision, but as usual, it will be forced through against any and every sensible argument to "save face" and "prove" it was the "correct" thing to do.... 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: In the State of Denial
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 146 Likes
on
28 Posts
I just took the figure for money reportedly saved by closing Lyneham - £279 million over ten years for the 125 civil service posts no longer required, as posted by NigeGilb, & divided by 10 (small rounding) to £28 million.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: wilts
Posts: 1,667
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have had a reply from James Gray. He didn't want to ask a parliamentary question because he thought the answer from MoD would just say the whole issue is under consideration as part of SDR. He also said that he thought the whole thing is a lost cause.
I pointed out that I very much doubt the re-surfacing of Lyneham's runway is forming part of SDR as the airfield is due to be closed. I also asked him what has changed since the Westminster Hall debate.
Edited to add I have just had a follow up email, JG explained more carefully his comments. He is still very active, but a lot of money has been spent on Brize already so he thinks it unlikely that Lyneham will say open as an airfield.
I pointed out that I very much doubt the re-surfacing of Lyneham's runway is forming part of SDR as the airfield is due to be closed. I also asked him what has changed since the Westminster Hall debate.
Edited to add I have just had a follow up email, JG explained more carefully his comments. He is still very active, but a lot of money has been spent on Brize already so he thinks it unlikely that Lyneham will say open as an airfield.
Last edited by nigegilb; 22nd Jul 2010 at 11:28.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: South Oxon
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless i have misread somewhere which i apologise now, but once the Lyneham a/c has shifted over to Brize, what happens if Brizes runway closes due to an incident and there are aircraft that have to depart Brize?? At least with Lyneham you have a second runway to use potentially if the other is out of use..
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: cheshire
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Neil - in answer to your question there's two points of view on this one:
- We're doomed - where will all the a/c land?
- There really aren't that many a/c anyway and there's plenty of other options (civ or mil)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unless i have misread somewhere which i apologise now, but once the Lyneham a/c has shifted over to Brize, what happens if Brizes runway closes due to an incident and there are aircraft that have to depart Brize?? At least with Lyneham you have a second runway to use potentially if the other is out of use..
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Old Cheese Emporium
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I noted that rumours in the The Daily Telegraph about the forthcoming SDR stated:
If this regrettable outcome does happen, when then pay for Hercules simulators, maintenance facilities & personnel to move to another location if it is only short term? Could it not be cheaper to maintain the current facilities until the A400M comes in at Brize. Or at least delay key Lyneham decisions until the outcome of the SDR?
The entire fleet of 36 Hercules transport aircraft, the workhorse in Iraq and Afghanistan, is to be phased out and replaced by an order of 22 new A400M planes.
No don't be silly that would require joined up thinking.
Obviously if they are to replace the C130 in the NEAR future then it would make sense to keep Lyneham open until the C130 has been retired.
But as we all know these NEAR future events have a habit of slipping, so you can be fairly sure the replacement for the C130 will be some years away from entering service. So it may still make sense to move now, although I doubt they will recoup ANY savings.
Mind you the pan at Lyneham resembles tumbleweed city these days, hardly any aircraft. Interestingly the accommodation at Brize is not due for completion for some years(possibly 2014) so what are people to do in the meantime if Lyneham closes. Where are they going to live, and how are they going to get to work? Especially if there is no home-duty or equivalent on offer?
Obviously if they are to replace the C130 in the NEAR future then it would make sense to keep Lyneham open until the C130 has been retired.
But as we all know these NEAR future events have a habit of slipping, so you can be fairly sure the replacement for the C130 will be some years away from entering service. So it may still make sense to move now, although I doubt they will recoup ANY savings.
Mind you the pan at Lyneham resembles tumbleweed city these days, hardly any aircraft. Interestingly the accommodation at Brize is not due for completion for some years(possibly 2014) so what are people to do in the meantime if Lyneham closes. Where are they going to live, and how are they going to get to work? Especially if there is no home-duty or equivalent on offer?
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Another S**thole
Age: 51
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C130 rumours are, in fact, 100% correct.
C130K may last to OSD of 2012
C130J is being replaced by A400M towards 2020 in all roles
Future 2-type Tac AT/Strat AT fleet is C17 and A400M
FSTA will do AR and PCF Strat AT
Simples
C130K may last to OSD of 2012
C130J is being replaced by A400M towards 2020 in all roles
Future 2-type Tac AT/Strat AT fleet is C17 and A400M
FSTA will do AR and PCF Strat AT
Simples
Champagne anyone...?
Yup, if A400 goes ahead then OSD of J will be brought forward by about 8-10 years to ameliorate. This will be dependent on maturity of A400 and it's capability to take on all the roles. Makes sense - the Js have been caned to death over the last 10 years filling gaps left by the mythical K fleet.
As an aside, if the K does survive the SDSR through 2012 then I would have to a) pass on my congratulations to those who have achieved the biggest wool pulling exercise ever conducted and b) record my displeasure at those foolish enough to fall for it.
Not childish J/K banter but a simple concern that we are just throwing what little good money we have after bad. Plus ca change I guess...
As an aside, if the K does survive the SDSR through 2012 then I would have to a) pass on my congratulations to those who have achieved the biggest wool pulling exercise ever conducted and b) record my displeasure at those foolish enough to fall for it.
Not childish J/K banter but a simple concern that we are just throwing what little good money we have after bad. Plus ca change I guess...
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SS, personally I feel that the K's chances of flying post SDR are nil.
More importantly though, I thought we were going to operate the A400 in a 'Strat plus' role rather than a full Tac role?
Or are we gonna go 180 out from what we do now and start doing tac in the C17?
More importantly though, I thought we were going to operate the A400 in a 'Strat plus' role rather than a full Tac role?
Or are we gonna go 180 out from what we do now and start doing tac in the C17?
Champagne anyone...?
The idea of a "strat plus" A400 was predicated on having a dedicated TAC AT platform in the form of the J. The A400 will need a lot of work to get it up to speed: Airbus have no military experience and as such the A400 FMS Tac software is, apparently, un petite peu rudimentare.... We'll see.
Be a shame to see the Herc go as it does and will continue to fill niche roles that the A400 won't. The standard argument of being to carry a couple of MRAPs is a massive red herring. Indeed, were it any bigger I would be tempted to rename myself Jonah and then climb in said large herring.
Be a shame to see the Herc go as it does and will continue to fill niche roles that the A400 won't. The standard argument of being to carry a couple of MRAPs is a massive red herring. Indeed, were it any bigger I would be tempted to rename myself Jonah and then climb in said large herring.
Be a shame to see the Herc go as it does and will continue to fill niche roles that the A400 won't.
The problem with the A400M will be the same as for A330-FSTA - not enough airframes in the right place when they're suddenly needed at short (usual MoD faff and panic) notice...
Champagne anyone...?
Or just carry on using the Herc? KC herc with receiver capable CH47 would be a handy little "enabling package". All just Internet hot air though
Completely off topic and massively random but BEags I was watching the ever amusing 80s Fighter Pilot series the other day and I'm fairly confident your mugshot is pinned to the wall behind some Flt Cdr chappy at Brawdy. Was it you and if so what had to done to achieve such status??
Completely off topic and massively random but BEags I was watching the ever amusing 80s Fighter Pilot series the other day and I'm fairly confident your mugshot is pinned to the wall behind some Flt Cdr chappy at Brawdy. Was it you and if so what had to done to achieve such status??
Guilty as charged, Stoppers!
It was the 'course photograph' for No 66 post-Vulcan / pre-TWU* Hawk refresher course at RAF Valley - which numbered one student. Me. And the 'Flt Cdr chappy' with the Seth Efrikan accent was actually an astonishingly young looking Wg Cdr Tim Webb, the CFI.
Epic course that was - with some really top staff chaps imparting their wisdom!
Just realised that it was 30 years ago... Bugger. And then on 1 Sep 1980 I waved 2 fingers to the 'Croeso i Cymru' sign in the rear view mirror as I set off to join No 1 TWU course at the recently re-opened RAF Chivenor....
A400M will be capable of helicopter AAR only at certain weights / levels. But for refuelling CSAR helicopters or supporting long-range SF insertion, a KC-27J would probably be just the ticket - if only the UK defence budget hadn't been bankrupted by nuLabor liars and their unfunded military adventurism...
*which, as it turned out, became No 66 Hawk / Phantom / Jetstream pre-VC10K lead-in course...
It was the 'course photograph' for No 66 post-Vulcan / pre-TWU* Hawk refresher course at RAF Valley - which numbered one student. Me. And the 'Flt Cdr chappy' with the Seth Efrikan accent was actually an astonishingly young looking Wg Cdr Tim Webb, the CFI.
Epic course that was - with some really top staff chaps imparting their wisdom!
Just realised that it was 30 years ago... Bugger. And then on 1 Sep 1980 I waved 2 fingers to the 'Croeso i Cymru' sign in the rear view mirror as I set off to join No 1 TWU course at the recently re-opened RAF Chivenor....
A400M will be capable of helicopter AAR only at certain weights / levels. But for refuelling CSAR helicopters or supporting long-range SF insertion, a KC-27J would probably be just the ticket - if only the UK defence budget hadn't been bankrupted by nuLabor liars and their unfunded military adventurism...
*which, as it turned out, became No 66 Hawk / Phantom / Jetstream pre-VC10K lead-in course...
Last edited by BEagle; 8th Aug 2010 at 22:42.
There is [sic] countless diversion emergency airfields all within in Div fuel
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The weather would have to be pretty darned punk for you not to get airbourne; a lot worse than for a cat 1 ILS and you could argue (and I bet the met office has the stats to prove it) that the conditions wouldnt be persistent anyways.