STILL THINK THERE ARE JOBS OUTSIDE?
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STILL THINK THERE ARE JOBS OUTSIDE?
Assuming the impending airline drawdown/recession occurs how many of you budding airline pilots who have spent time slagging off the armed forces are going to be glad of continued employment in the military? 
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Sorry chum, wrong assumption - I've had an ATPL in my sticky mits since the end of 1999!
Care to answer the question sensibly or just degenerate this forum into the usual slack banter?
Care to answer the question sensibly or just degenerate this forum into the usual slack banter?
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Personally, I don't know of one single fighter pilot who wants out as a result of this week's events......judging from my phone calls this weekend, just a stack of mates who want back in! Can't see myself rushing off after an ATPL right now!
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Pete you wearnt that fat arrogant bloke who worked with me in Kenya in Jan were you.
On a serious note, alot of people in lar lar land are struggling right now. If you are thinking of getting out at this time...sit tight. Even jobs in the city are getting tight, buisness has been bad for some time and recent events have made it much worse, people arent changing jobs, be careful.
On a serious note, alot of people in lar lar land are struggling right now. If you are thinking of getting out at this time...sit tight. Even jobs in the city are getting tight, buisness has been bad for some time and recent events have made it much worse, people arent changing jobs, be careful.
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Trollydollylover...
I've never been to Kenya and my reaction to Uncle Peter was merely in response to his insulting final comments!
As for the retention problem being over I think the MOD ought to tread carefully if they are planning on determining future retention 'packages' in response to the recent crisis. It's mystery time for civil and military flying methinks.
I've never been to Kenya and my reaction to Uncle Peter was merely in response to his insulting final comments!
As for the retention problem being over I think the MOD ought to tread carefully if they are planning on determining future retention 'packages' in response to the recent crisis. It's mystery time for civil and military flying methinks.
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pete - how can someone who opened the thread with an overtly inflammatory post have such delicate sensibilities? to offend or insult was not the intention of the post - merely to throw some tongue in cheek banter back your way.
as it was my mistake as to the proximity of the teddies to the edge of the pram, i must apologise and offer a proper response.
with another flying job to go to, there is no way i would consider recinding my pvr merely because the raf may have better job security. the raf has some major problems at the moment. it is a simple balancing act - on the plus side there is job security, on the negative side there are too many factors i could mention.
yes the aviation industry is suffering at the moment, but for how long? reasons cited for the proposed job losses include increased insurance and security costs coupled with a lack of consumer confidence. ignoring the prospect of recession, this situation can only improve given time.
as regards the city, my sister works as a recruitment consultant for a large financial house - they are still looking for the right people.
things certainly are not as bleak as some would portray.
as it was my mistake as to the proximity of the teddies to the edge of the pram, i must apologise and offer a proper response.
with another flying job to go to, there is no way i would consider recinding my pvr merely because the raf may have better job security. the raf has some major problems at the moment. it is a simple balancing act - on the plus side there is job security, on the negative side there are too many factors i could mention.
yes the aviation industry is suffering at the moment, but for how long? reasons cited for the proposed job losses include increased insurance and security costs coupled with a lack of consumer confidence. ignoring the prospect of recession, this situation can only improve given time.
as regards the city, my sister works as a recruitment consultant for a large financial house - they are still looking for the right people.
things certainly are not as bleak as some would portray.
Perhaps the only aviation growth area will be in long-range corpoate bizjets. Those companies who wish to avoid any perceived risk in using commercial B777 business class or first class might be able to synchronize travel needs by using a bespoke 'executive' service?
To use the service, individuals would need to invest in 'their' air operator. They could then fly between chosen secure airports with available slots when the need arose rather than tolerating the discomfort of scheduled carriers.
There may well be a presumption against large aircraft by the travelling public; maybe we'll see a return to 707 sized aircraft? I can't see many folk wanting to travel in an A380 anymore, no matter how cheap the seat might be. But on an 100-seater with at least a 38 inch seating pitch....??
Fractional long-range exec jet ownership and more, but smaller, jets instead of the 747/757/767/777 sizes? Plus more 'regional jets' like the EMB 145 from the smaller airports serving short-range needs?.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
To use the service, individuals would need to invest in 'their' air operator. They could then fly between chosen secure airports with available slots when the need arose rather than tolerating the discomfort of scheduled carriers.
There may well be a presumption against large aircraft by the travelling public; maybe we'll see a return to 707 sized aircraft? I can't see many folk wanting to travel in an A380 anymore, no matter how cheap the seat might be. But on an 100-seater with at least a 38 inch seating pitch....??
Fractional long-range exec jet ownership and more, but smaller, jets instead of the 747/757/767/777 sizes? Plus more 'regional jets' like the EMB 145 from the smaller airports serving short-range needs?.
[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
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Pete is right. The only time it is worth staying in the military is when there are no decent commercial jobs available. Don't worry Pete you will get the chance to use your little green book one day.
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Lets just hope that this does not stop any current look at retention, though after the last retention plan we saw how short sighted they could be. Though there is an airline draw down now, I am sure it will get better.
So please, those at the top, don't be short sighted and do nothing. This current poor outlook outside will pass and we will then be in the same position. If nothing is done to keep our own people happy the will again jump as soon as they can.
Just a thought?
Tonks
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]
So please, those at the top, don't be short sighted and do nothing. This current poor outlook outside will pass and we will then be in the same position. If nothing is done to keep our own people happy the will again jump as soon as they can.
Just a thought?
Tonks
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]
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I have to say I am with Beagle.
There will be an increased requirement for small jets and there has already been a warning that Rotary jobs will be on the increase because of more police, internal security jobs aswell as more transit jobs. It will be safer and quicker (maybe already is) to fly office block to office block by rotary pretty much from anywhere to anywhere within the mainland UK if security and booking in gets longer for airline trips. Equally as a result the helicopter trips will cost less (more of them) when airline trips are going to get more expensive (less of them and more expensive security etc).
Those with foresight will get an ATPL (H), just like all the rotary pilots that get ATPL (A)s.
Of course who knows what licence tiltrotor will need (rumour is ATPL (H)).
There will be an increased requirement for small jets and there has already been a warning that Rotary jobs will be on the increase because of more police, internal security jobs aswell as more transit jobs. It will be safer and quicker (maybe already is) to fly office block to office block by rotary pretty much from anywhere to anywhere within the mainland UK if security and booking in gets longer for airline trips. Equally as a result the helicopter trips will cost less (more of them) when airline trips are going to get more expensive (less of them and more expensive security etc).
Those with foresight will get an ATPL (H), just like all the rotary pilots that get ATPL (A)s.
Of course who knows what licence tiltrotor will need (rumour is ATPL (H)).
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Have to agree Tonks,
I think that the RAF has an opportunity to make a real statement about how serious, or otherwise, it takes the retention of its highest calibre professionals. It can:
A. Gleefully rub hands at the short-term prospect of a slowdown in recruitment by the airlines and disappoint again. In 18 months time, the bitterly disappointed will be all the more determined to leave, having seen the value placed in them.
B. Recognize the cyclic nature of the industry and invest in the long term, placing quality of life and welfare at the top of the agenda.
Here's hoping. If you want people to behave in a special way then you must treat them as special people.
I think that the RAF has an opportunity to make a real statement about how serious, or otherwise, it takes the retention of its highest calibre professionals. It can:
A. Gleefully rub hands at the short-term prospect of a slowdown in recruitment by the airlines and disappoint again. In 18 months time, the bitterly disappointed will be all the more determined to leave, having seen the value placed in them.
B. Recognize the cyclic nature of the industry and invest in the long term, placing quality of life and welfare at the top of the agenda.
Here's hoping. If you want people to behave in a special way then you must treat them as special people.
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Any truth in the rumour that Binnsworth has received a number of calls from airline chaps asking about the prospect of coming back in? 'Someone' said over 30 Virgin pilots made contact....
[Eddited fer spulling]
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: FJJP ]
[Eddited fer spulling]
[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: FJJP ]
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Anyone taken Gordon Brown into consideration? He's just announced 'drawdown' in public spending. Mind you, the Government ought to think about keeping morale up for all the guys and girls out in Oman (or similar). I agree that this is a test of downwards loyalty for the MOD, the next few months will be interesting (for want of a better word). I understand there are many requests at Innsworth for re-entry to the RAF. How times change! 
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If the RAF is hiring then there will obviously be a stream of unemployed ex-military pilots who are desperate for work beating a path to the door. They will also have applied to every other two bit outfit on the continent who might possibly offer them a ray of hope in these difficult times. If the powers that be, or anybody else for that matter, interpret this as a vote of confidence in the RAF or a desire to return to military flying then they are sadly mistaken.
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Agree with Tonks and Capt Kirk
I did hear a rumour (this is PPrUNe after all?!!) that the Retention Package was ripped up shortly after the events of 11th September. The powers that be apparantly feel that there is no longer a retention problem!
If this is true, it's another victory for short-term planning and narrow-mindedness. As soon as the airlines turn around there will be an even bigger queue of pilots looking to leave.
Let's hope that they can't be so blinkered?!
I did hear a rumour (this is PPrUNe after all?!!) that the Retention Package was ripped up shortly after the events of 11th September. The powers that be apparantly feel that there is no longer a retention problem!
If this is true, it's another victory for short-term planning and narrow-mindedness. As soon as the airlines turn around there will be an even bigger queue of pilots looking to leave.
Let's hope that they can't be so blinkered?!