Whinging aircrew!
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I am now strongly debating whether Propsr4boats is a complete w@nker that is just REALLY jealous of those lucky enough to fly military? or, has he just stumbled on here and spouted complete drivel.. .Can anyone help?. .Sangiovese - He probably doesnt have the seniority or knowledge to program the FMS on his own!
Hope to hear your pearls of wisdom next time I (begrudgingly) fly civvy Propsr4boats! I will try not to p1ss myself laughing at your humour. Or will you just be offering me another drink from your trolley.
Awaits a response!
Hope to hear your pearls of wisdom next time I (begrudgingly) fly civvy Propsr4boats! I will try not to p1ss myself laughing at your humour. Or will you just be offering me another drink from your trolley.
Awaits a response!
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Great!. .Propsr4boats must be one of those civvy pilots who must be a real treat to fly with, especially if you're ex mil. He's probably done a great deal to help with x-overs for the mil guys and no doubt always makes them welcome in his amazing company. . .Wouldn't be surprised if this 'attitude' that some claim mil pilots posses with regard to civvy flying may come from the mouths of a tool like this!
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I disagree that Mr Paperclip Counter has been to IOT, I'm guessing that he is an LAC or SAC at the most, due to his lack of basic service knowledge. I'm assuing, that he is in the RAF as he mentions 1771,s, but where do families get Dental Treatment?.
Paperclip Guru, get a life, and at the same time get your facts straight, and may the family of hedgehogs be followed by a rearwards facing porcupine.
Paperclip Guru, get a life, and at the same time get your facts straight, and may the family of hedgehogs be followed by a rearwards facing porcupine.
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Pratinaboat or whatever your name is, I'll have my Big Mac and fries when you're ready. Off you go now before the manager catches you, there's a good chap. Anyone else hungry?
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Admin Guru..
I'm a little late to this one....courtesy of some ad hoc skiing up the road, so apologies if anyone has already pointed out that:
1. The RCAF no longer exists, nor has it done for about the last 30 years or so.
2. Not everyone in the CF (to give it the proper terminology) wears a trade badge - but you're right, many do.
3. Many pilots are pi$$ed off that "other aircrew" wear the full wing.
4. CF pilots get paid a different (higher) BASIC pay than the blunties, sorry, general list officers. This, of course, is pensionable.
5. The CF issue a rather natty set of metal wings, similar to those worn by the USAF, for aircrew to wear on their shirts, when blues is the order of the day. "Other" trades don't have these, just the cloth ones for wearing on one's general purpose jacket, and S3 (that's No1 to you) dress.
Right, now back to the next nine pages before I toddle off to Miami at the weekend.....
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]</p>
I'm a little late to this one....courtesy of some ad hoc skiing up the road, so apologies if anyone has already pointed out that:
1. The RCAF no longer exists, nor has it done for about the last 30 years or so.
2. Not everyone in the CF (to give it the proper terminology) wears a trade badge - but you're right, many do.
3. Many pilots are pi$$ed off that "other aircrew" wear the full wing.
4. CF pilots get paid a different (higher) BASIC pay than the blunties, sorry, general list officers. This, of course, is pensionable.
5. The CF issue a rather natty set of metal wings, similar to those worn by the USAF, for aircrew to wear on their shirts, when blues is the order of the day. "Other" trades don't have these, just the cloth ones for wearing on one's general purpose jacket, and S3 (that's No1 to you) dress.
Right, now back to the next nine pages before I toddle off to Miami at the weekend.....
<img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]
[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]</p>
Blimey,
One blunty re-iritates an old chestnut and you lot spend 9 pages telling him to wind his neck in. You lot obviously aren't working hard enough nowadays. Of course in my day things were a lot harder, you youngsters don't know that you're born...oh bollocks I'm too tired to wind anyone up but here's a genuine tale for comment....
I was sitting chatting to a civvie self-improver about work and conditions in our airline and the conversation went:
Me:"To be honest as ex-RAF I can't complain about any of our hotels we [airline blokes] stay in. They're all a lot better than a tent next to an active runway". .Him:"Aye well [for he was Scottish but miserable enough to have been Welsh], you don't go to admire council buildings do you?". ."Eh?". ."I mean the taxpayer has to fund the RAF and let's face it airline pilots are in the job of saving lives, whereas the military is about taking lives. So decent crew rest isn't as important". .[Now at this point I started to stutter thinking I must be hallucinating].. ."Errr, so you think it's OK to send, say, 12 Tornadoes to Bosnia and plan on losing 3 on the way because the crews slept on the floor of the hangar". ."Well that's what losses are budgeted for isn't it?". .Me:"Oh here's my stop - I'll get me coat"
I realise this has nothing to do with blunties and their perennial jealousy regarding the superiority of pilots and thingies (umm navigators) but I thought I should share this little gem. What would you have said, (not done- as violence is the last resort of the incompetant)?
One blunty re-iritates an old chestnut and you lot spend 9 pages telling him to wind his neck in. You lot obviously aren't working hard enough nowadays. Of course in my day things were a lot harder, you youngsters don't know that you're born...oh bollocks I'm too tired to wind anyone up but here's a genuine tale for comment....
I was sitting chatting to a civvie self-improver about work and conditions in our airline and the conversation went:
Me:"To be honest as ex-RAF I can't complain about any of our hotels we [airline blokes] stay in. They're all a lot better than a tent next to an active runway". .Him:"Aye well [for he was Scottish but miserable enough to have been Welsh], you don't go to admire council buildings do you?". ."Eh?". ."I mean the taxpayer has to fund the RAF and let's face it airline pilots are in the job of saving lives, whereas the military is about taking lives. So decent crew rest isn't as important". .[Now at this point I started to stutter thinking I must be hallucinating].. ."Errr, so you think it's OK to send, say, 12 Tornadoes to Bosnia and plan on losing 3 on the way because the crews slept on the floor of the hangar". ."Well that's what losses are budgeted for isn't it?". .Me:"Oh here's my stop - I'll get me coat"
I realise this has nothing to do with blunties and their perennial jealousy regarding the superiority of pilots and thingies (umm navigators) but I thought I should share this little gem. What would you have said, (not done- as violence is the last resort of the incompetant)?
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Dunhovrin
I'm <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Are you in any position to provide some insight into your colleague's mental processes? Where do the council houses (or was that cooncil hooses) come into it? And which lives would he be after saving in your 747 or whatever? And does he have these sort of ideas in flight, or just on the ground? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I'm <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Are you in any position to provide some insight into your colleague's mental processes? Where do the council houses (or was that cooncil hooses) come into it? And which lives would he be after saving in your 747 or whatever? And does he have these sort of ideas in flight, or just on the ground? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
It's obviously got nothing to do with being a Blunty or a self-improver or, for that matter, aircrew. An arse is an arse no matter what he smells like.
Unfortunately, Admin Guano is only one of a growing number of people, of all trades, even aircrew, who are losing sight of what this business is all about. The business of the RAF is the mission. Thats it. Whether it is dropping a bomb, delivering troops, refuelling jets or whatever. The final delivery of whatever it is, by aircraft. Every action or decision, however trivial, that every person in the RAF makes, of whatever rank, should be made with the thought 'Does this help towards achieving the mission?' somewhere in the back of their minds. Every person, section and flight will have its own missions, but achieving those missions must still be geared to achieving bigger missions, and so on and so on until we come to the top, the big one, the actual dropping of the bombs (or whatever).
The mission has to be right at the top of the tree. It supports nothing else, it is the whole point of the organisation. Right underneath that, is the aircraft itself. Without that, there really will be no mission. Everything else goes to support that, that is what everything else is there for. However, when that aircraft goes on its mission, there are aircrew in it, and that makes us part of the aircraft.
That puts us above you, Guano, in the tree.. .That is the way it is. It is not that we are better people than the rest of you, or superior to you, or morally more pure, or just better looking (though that's usually true!), its just that's where our job puts us in the big organisational tree. We have our fair share of w*nkers too, I cannot deny, but what we expect of you, is your support, your unswerving support, every day, for us as we go about our business of achieving the mission. We appreciate your support. We are not so blinkered that we cannot see that the mission will fail without your support. It just that you support us, and not the other way round, and the sooner that you and your like minded kin appreciate that, the sooner we will get some way back to being the sort of organisation that we were once proud of.
(I know that there are trades and jobs out there who do not fall strictly into the above, but they are a tiny minority, so my points are valid for the vast majority of the RAF, particularly 1st tourist Admin Officers)
Fvck me readers, that was a bit serious!
Nob, Poo, Bum! That's better!
PS. Dunhovrin'. Long time no see, are you going to come and visit us ever again?
The mission has to be right at the top of the tree. It supports nothing else, it is the whole point of the organisation. Right underneath that, is the aircraft itself. Without that, there really will be no mission. Everything else goes to support that, that is what everything else is there for. However, when that aircraft goes on its mission, there are aircrew in it, and that makes us part of the aircraft.
That puts us above you, Guano, in the tree.. .That is the way it is. It is not that we are better people than the rest of you, or superior to you, or morally more pure, or just better looking (though that's usually true!), its just that's where our job puts us in the big organisational tree. We have our fair share of w*nkers too, I cannot deny, but what we expect of you, is your support, your unswerving support, every day, for us as we go about our business of achieving the mission. We appreciate your support. We are not so blinkered that we cannot see that the mission will fail without your support. It just that you support us, and not the other way round, and the sooner that you and your like minded kin appreciate that, the sooner we will get some way back to being the sort of organisation that we were once proud of.
(I know that there are trades and jobs out there who do not fall strictly into the above, but they are a tiny minority, so my points are valid for the vast majority of the RAF, particularly 1st tourist Admin Officers)
Fvck me readers, that was a bit serious!
Nob, Poo, Bum! That's better!
PS. Dunhovrin'. Long time no see, are you going to come and visit us ever again?
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Hey guys. It is clear that Admin Grunt is a serial loser.
Rarely has so large an inferiority complex manifested itself in this place.
Go back to straightening chairs you rubber desk johnny and leave the real men to get on with their real jobs undistracted by sour grapes losers like you.
BLUNT TO$$ER! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Rarely has so large an inferiority complex manifested itself in this place.
Go back to straightening chairs you rubber desk johnny and leave the real men to get on with their real jobs undistracted by sour grapes losers like you.
BLUNT TO$$ER! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
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Will the real "Admin Guru" please stand up. Or perhaps reveal more about yourself.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Great wind-up, you must have great tackle. Love it.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Great wind-up, you must have great tackle. Love it.
Admin Guru,
As you are a first tourist may I humbly request that you Shut the F**k up until you have enough time in to understand what actually goes on in your chosen Service? Especially at the sharp end. Never forget that the SOLE function of any flying station is to SUPPORT the FLYING role of that station.
I am not aircrew myself, but all my years in the RAF I worked very closely with them and have to say that every one of them has good reason to be proud of what they have achieved and are achieving on a daily basis.
Of course they bleat and whine about how bad their lot is, but doesn't everyone? Someone (and I can't for the life of me remember who) once said that a soldier who was not moaning was a cause for worry. Of course they usually get more on highest rate flying pay than many airmen get for a months salary, but how many "blunties" go out to work and may not come back again that evening due to a technical malfunction of their photocopier or a moment of inattention processing someones leave pass?
When I joined I also thought, "Gawd, what a life, easy or what?" Then I grew up. Sometimes I saw the guys coming back after a hard ACM sortie (you DO know what that is, don't you?) drenched in sweat and looking like they'd spent that afternoon shovelling coal and then dropping absolutely drained into their comfy chair in the crewroom (with their telegraph and cuppa?). How often does your grappling with a particularly difficult F1771 leave you like that?
You make my blood boil and I've been out of the RAF for five years. With blokes like you in handbrake house, no wonder the service can be the rest of us receive is bl**dy awful on some stations.
There is so much I want to say to you, none of it complementary that I am going to stop now lest I go too far.
Aircrew, keep it up. I was proud to work with you regardless of what this bluntie tw*t says.
Doc C.
[ 24 January 2002: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]</p>
As you are a first tourist may I humbly request that you Shut the F**k up until you have enough time in to understand what actually goes on in your chosen Service? Especially at the sharp end. Never forget that the SOLE function of any flying station is to SUPPORT the FLYING role of that station.
I am not aircrew myself, but all my years in the RAF I worked very closely with them and have to say that every one of them has good reason to be proud of what they have achieved and are achieving on a daily basis.
Of course they bleat and whine about how bad their lot is, but doesn't everyone? Someone (and I can't for the life of me remember who) once said that a soldier who was not moaning was a cause for worry. Of course they usually get more on highest rate flying pay than many airmen get for a months salary, but how many "blunties" go out to work and may not come back again that evening due to a technical malfunction of their photocopier or a moment of inattention processing someones leave pass?
When I joined I also thought, "Gawd, what a life, easy or what?" Then I grew up. Sometimes I saw the guys coming back after a hard ACM sortie (you DO know what that is, don't you?) drenched in sweat and looking like they'd spent that afternoon shovelling coal and then dropping absolutely drained into their comfy chair in the crewroom (with their telegraph and cuppa?). How often does your grappling with a particularly difficult F1771 leave you like that?
You make my blood boil and I've been out of the RAF for five years. With blokes like you in handbrake house, no wonder the service can be the rest of us receive is bl**dy awful on some stations.
There is so much I want to say to you, none of it complementary that I am going to stop now lest I go too far.
Aircrew, keep it up. I was proud to work with you regardless of what this bluntie tw*t says.
Doc C.
[ 24 January 2002: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]</p>
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Dear Wg Cdr Guru, oh sorry it's APO isn't it, or should that be SAC? I think you have a very valid point. It would be a real shame to let such a funny thread fizzle out so why don't you post another gem of admin wisdom.
Here's one for starters - all aircrew are neo-chauvinist macho glory seeking repressed homosexuals, and flying sqn should be replaced with therapy groups.
Light blue touch paper and retire. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Here's one for starters - all aircrew are neo-chauvinist macho glory seeking repressed homosexuals, and flying sqn should be replaced with therapy groups.
Light blue touch paper and retire. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Careful, <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> he's already made another ill-informed comment on the aircrew retention thread. I'm glad he's not working at the same place as me. Our handbrake house is full of civvies who are mostly onside and actually work in our favour.. .They may be not be in a blue suit but they have been there long enough to know how it really is.
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Can't this thread die? 10 pages of whinging about being called whingers? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
I know crab baiting can be a job and not just a hobby, but admin guru has excelled beyond the bounds of all expectation. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
What's next? A thread about crab aircrew turning up in flying overalls for every occasion? Dont think the server is big enough to cope with that one.
I know crab baiting can be a job and not just a hobby, but admin guru has excelled beyond the bounds of all expectation. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
What's next? A thread about crab aircrew turning up in flying overalls for every occasion? Dont think the server is big enough to cope with that one.
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Admin Guru
We all winge about pay and conditions but we have to earn our money the hard way some of the time. Last year I was on bottom rate flying pay, about 10 quid a day, during the year I spent 5 months away on ops, but far worse I was on standby in a Puma waiting to go to a crash site to pick up 2 dead friends; I carried the coffin of one of these friends at the repatriation ceremony, I went to the memorial service of the other one; later in the year I went to the funeral of another friend killed whilst flying and finally found out that another guy I worked with on Ops was killed in a helicopter crash. I know that flying pay is not officially danger money but that was hard earned flying pay, what ****ing danger have you ever faced?
RIP Andy, Magoo, Jas and Simon
We all winge about pay and conditions but we have to earn our money the hard way some of the time. Last year I was on bottom rate flying pay, about 10 quid a day, during the year I spent 5 months away on ops, but far worse I was on standby in a Puma waiting to go to a crash site to pick up 2 dead friends; I carried the coffin of one of these friends at the repatriation ceremony, I went to the memorial service of the other one; later in the year I went to the funeral of another friend killed whilst flying and finally found out that another guy I worked with on Ops was killed in a helicopter crash. I know that flying pay is not officially danger money but that was hard earned flying pay, what ****ing danger have you ever faced?
RIP Andy, Magoo, Jas and Simon
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Madness
My sympathy to you and what you`ve been through. Everyone`s thoughts on this website go out to you and the families of those involved.
While AG has come across as a complete tw@t I don`t think he ( or anyone else ) would ever dismiss the ACTUAL job we do. He never denied the right to flying pay and his views while immature have never ventured into being sick and twisted.
There`s a difference between banter and being an ar$e to crossing the line and attacking those who lose their lives doing the job that at the end of the day everyone is in debt to them for.
In fairness I think AG has not crossed that line and you`ve taken some anger out on him over something that he would undoubtedly have sympathy with you over.
My sympathy to you and what you`ve been through. Everyone`s thoughts on this website go out to you and the families of those involved.
While AG has come across as a complete tw@t I don`t think he ( or anyone else ) would ever dismiss the ACTUAL job we do. He never denied the right to flying pay and his views while immature have never ventured into being sick and twisted.
There`s a difference between banter and being an ar$e to crossing the line and attacking those who lose their lives doing the job that at the end of the day everyone is in debt to them for.
In fairness I think AG has not crossed that line and you`ve taken some anger out on him over something that he would undoubtedly have sympathy with you over.
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Admin Gnu,. .I see on another thread that you would like to be a Navigator. Why would you want to leave the highly demanding job - scribbly - which is "as important,if not more so" than aircrew? Surely you do not want to sit around the crewroom reading your Telegraph with a bunch of whinging, brevet-wearing elitists? No! Do not do it! Your Branch need you, now more than ever!. .Keep them coming, they are getting funnier every time. Some points for you to ponder:
Like it or not:. .if you look at your own mind. .you will discover it is void and groundless,. .insubstantial as empty space.. . Padmasambhava. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Like it or not:. .if you look at your own mind. .you will discover it is void and groundless,. .insubstantial as empty space.. . Padmasambhava. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
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Rembrandt - thanks for your comments. I would appreciate your thoughts on the need for F3s in the Falkands. As a Nav I wouldn't expect to sit around - I hear they pretty much run the sorties and are in charge of tactics etc?? . .Hopefully this thread will die now that aircrew have got their FRI.
Look forward to shooting the proverbial with you in a crewroom soon. (Same for you Sven)
Look forward to shooting the proverbial with you in a crewroom soon. (Same for you Sven)