SNCO Aircrew.... Shafted???
Sorry but it's me again. Might I just add that I know that forums like this are read by staff officers and above and I think that if you want to want to be taken seriously you have to stop hiding behind anonymous forums. This was nicely demonstrated in the pilot world by the Jag mate who wrote to Air Clues (in about 1996-7 ish) outlining what he felt was going wrong. The outcome was a series of meetings with CinC Strike(as I recall) where at least we were able to put the points across to the man himself. This would never have happened if the letter had been anonymous. The long and the short of it is that there is no point bleating in the dark and lots of "lets all stick together boys" speeches if you are not going to be prepared to stand up and be counted. Just as you have written that I should be ignored because you know nothing of my background and think I am winding you up, then so the Air Staff (who undoubtably read this) will ignore your comments.
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Flaps,
I have tried desperately to ignore your comments which are not remotely funny or humerous or even accurate. Your comments and replies to MadBoom, Bigley and Sandy Crevice are testimony to that, and your latest ones are little better.
If you are so clued up on the best way for AA to proceed, then instead of taking the pi$$, use some of that 'Officer Intelligence' and give us some guidence! after all, isn't that what Officers are supposed to do, look after their airman??
As for staff officers reading these forums, I am sure the do, but..... do they take any notice? patently they do not, otherwise they would be doing something positive to quell this appalling ill-feeling amongst the AA cadre.
Another AA survey/evaluation is nothing short of yet another stalling tactic, and by the time it is published, another staff/senior officer will be in post and the whole saga will (probably) start over again.
If I thought for one minute that my publishing a letter, would do the slightest good, then I for one would take up the challenge. However, you know as well as I do that it will do no good whasoever. The fact is that other than staff officers reading this, many newspapers read it, and I regret to say, they are probably our biggest ally (Look at last weekends Sunday papers ref RN)
So come on Flaps - HELP US OUT! Stop generating and fuelling all this bad blood and do something positive.
You never know, you may just one day be pleased to see an AA, particularly if he is on the end of a wire, and you've just had a Martin Baker let down!
Regards. .FGLFB
I have tried desperately to ignore your comments which are not remotely funny or humerous or even accurate. Your comments and replies to MadBoom, Bigley and Sandy Crevice are testimony to that, and your latest ones are little better.
If you are so clued up on the best way for AA to proceed, then instead of taking the pi$$, use some of that 'Officer Intelligence' and give us some guidence! after all, isn't that what Officers are supposed to do, look after their airman??
As for staff officers reading these forums, I am sure the do, but..... do they take any notice? patently they do not, otherwise they would be doing something positive to quell this appalling ill-feeling amongst the AA cadre.
Another AA survey/evaluation is nothing short of yet another stalling tactic, and by the time it is published, another staff/senior officer will be in post and the whole saga will (probably) start over again.
If I thought for one minute that my publishing a letter, would do the slightest good, then I for one would take up the challenge. However, you know as well as I do that it will do no good whasoever. The fact is that other than staff officers reading this, many newspapers read it, and I regret to say, they are probably our biggest ally (Look at last weekends Sunday papers ref RN)
So come on Flaps - HELP US OUT! Stop generating and fuelling all this bad blood and do something positive.
You never know, you may just one day be pleased to see an AA, particularly if he is on the end of a wire, and you've just had a Martin Baker let down!
Regards. .FGLFB
My point was that we didn't need anyone to hold our hand. I thought all you salty old AA could do things for yourself, and if not, is that the reason that the Nimrod has a 2 man bog! If you wait for someone else to sort your problem you'll wait a long time. Hang on a minute - re-read the last few pages and posts and I think I can see one of the reasons for your current predicament and for the extra that officers are paid. It's called leadership - we have it and when something goes wrong you sit back and bleat for officers to help you.
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FLAPS,
Typical!!!!you pathetic and sad individual.. .Just for a second there I foolishly thought you might have been going to display some of that Officer intelligence you claim to have. But you soon proved me wrong yet again didn't you? And now I'm kicking myself for not listening to what I said earlier and being guilty of playing right into your hands.
Leadership! ha ha, you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Your comments are sadly now typical of todays modern Officer -"Screw you Jack, I'm alright!" They only go to show everyone how little leadership and Officer qualities you actually possess.
Here was the perfect opportunity for you to show your true worth and value and guess what? yes you completely blew it!! (no real surprise there I suppose!)
Sorry Flaps, try taking a leaf out of Flt Lt Jenkins' book, and find out what TRUE leadership and Officer qualities are all about.. . . .AA don't expect any help from the Officer fraternity and there is little, if any, chance of them receiving it. We will continue by ourselves, resolute in the knowledge that Officers like yourself are now sadly the norm in the RAF.
I can only suggest therefore that you crawl back up the ar$e of the 2 star you work for, and secure your next promotion!
Oh Dear, now I'm guilty of stooping down to your level!
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: FGLFB ]</p>
Typical!!!!you pathetic and sad individual.. .Just for a second there I foolishly thought you might have been going to display some of that Officer intelligence you claim to have. But you soon proved me wrong yet again didn't you? And now I'm kicking myself for not listening to what I said earlier and being guilty of playing right into your hands.
Leadership! ha ha, you haven't got the faintest idea what you're talking about. Your comments are sadly now typical of todays modern Officer -"Screw you Jack, I'm alright!" They only go to show everyone how little leadership and Officer qualities you actually possess.
Here was the perfect opportunity for you to show your true worth and value and guess what? yes you completely blew it!! (no real surprise there I suppose!)
Sorry Flaps, try taking a leaf out of Flt Lt Jenkins' book, and find out what TRUE leadership and Officer qualities are all about.. . . .AA don't expect any help from the Officer fraternity and there is little, if any, chance of them receiving it. We will continue by ourselves, resolute in the knowledge that Officers like yourself are now sadly the norm in the RAF.
I can only suggest therefore that you crawl back up the ar$e of the 2 star you work for, and secure your next promotion!
Oh Dear, now I'm guilty of stooping down to your level!
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: FGLFB ]</p>
FGLFB
A few quotes from your recent postings:
"AA don't expect any help from the Officer fraternity"
"So come on Flaps - HELP US OUT!"
"use some of that "Officer intelligence" and give us some guidance"
Well, glad we got that sorted out - no contradictions there at all.
It may not look like a goat or smell like a goat but it certainly bleats like a goat!
A few quotes from your recent postings:
"AA don't expect any help from the Officer fraternity"
"So come on Flaps - HELP US OUT!"
"use some of that "Officer intelligence" and give us some guidance"
Well, glad we got that sorted out - no contradictions there at all.
It may not look like a goat or smell like a goat but it certainly bleats like a goat!
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Flaps,
This is definately the last time I rise to your bait (I hope!)
Bleats, moans, winges, gripes - call them what you will. The fact remains nevertheless, that they are FACTS!. .As I said above, you were given the opportunity to display your Officer and leadership qualities. You chose not to take up the challenge, therebye simply proving to the rest of us your true value to this air force - very little I would suggest.
Farewell Flaps - You are a very weak link!
This is definately the last time I rise to your bait (I hope!)
Bleats, moans, winges, gripes - call them what you will. The fact remains nevertheless, that they are FACTS!. .As I said above, you were given the opportunity to display your Officer and leadership qualities. You chose not to take up the challenge, therebye simply proving to the rest of us your true value to this air force - very little I would suggest.
Farewell Flaps - You are a very weak link!
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Flaps,
Intersesting views and opinions there dude.. .I have just been posted here to Lincoln and would love to know who you are/what you do.
Please feel free to email me, I look forward to meeting you.
Intersesting views and opinions there dude.. .I have just been posted here to Lincoln and would love to know who you are/what you do.
Please feel free to email me, I look forward to meeting you.
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Flaps 62. .. .As ex airman aircrew and now left hand seat 747-400 I look forward to the day we fly together with you as my First Officer. I will certainly encourage you to use your service writing skills by looking after the Flight Report and PLog for me. I may even let you play with that `casio watch` but only if you are a good boy.
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Flaps, in a recent reply you wrote.... .. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> . .FGLFB. .A few quotes from your recent postings:. .. ."AA don't expect any help from the Officer fraternity". .. ."So come on Flaps - HELP US OUT!". .. ."use some of that "Officer intelligence" and give us some guidance". .. .Well, glad we got that sorted out - no contradictions there at all.. .. .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Well, actually, there are no contradictions. The first of your quotes stated that AA don't expect help from the officers, your second 2 quotes were merely making requests, but still (as you proved) no help or guidance is actually expected . Just proves the lack of officer inteligence you display if you think that by 'asking' for help and guidance that we actually 'expect' to get any.. .. .Mad Mark!!. . . . <small>[ 05 March 2002, 14:35: Message edited by: Mad_Mark ]</small>
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Anyone heard any more details about the Sustainability Study (sounds ominous for a start), apart from the published bits in the briefing bulletin?. .. .Don't know either the Gp Capt or the Wg Cdr, but both MACR's seem to have considerable credability. Not an enviable position though, having the hopes of the entire AA Cadre on thier shoulders, and having to answer to them afterwards, whatever the outcome. One can only hope it doesn't end up as a mighty embarressment for them both. . .. .Best of Luck to them both.
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It is wrong to make personal comments about anybody on an anonymous forum but dont hold your breath about at least one of the (Party line, Not a crewmans friend)senior officers.. .. .Besides which, if there is a "cost free" caveat, then it matters not how good "our" reps are, they will fail to impress many people.. .. .I would settle for flying pay parity with my commisioned breathren and the said pay to be included as basic pay (pensionable). Odds of this happening? . .. .The only good news is that I have heard on good authority that the man at PMC has a handle on this thread so is at least aware of the discontent on the street. Bad news is that every boss, has a boss! and at that level, they hear no crewroom gossip.. .. .Yozzer, gizza job, any job with lots of dosh!
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Back to the top.. .I feel I have to ephasise Yossers statement as follows.. . "I would settle for flying pay parity with my commisioned breathren and the said pay to be included as basic pay (pensionable)." . .I think that that move which hopefully has to come in some time i.e. the old chestnut of flying pay being taxed, but not included in the pension certainly gets my vote, and should please most if not all AA. I also believe that it would improve recruitment for AA from within the RAF.. .Edited due to a keyboard which Kant spel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 05 March 2002, 22:00: Message edited by: 6nandneutral ]</small>
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I was just wondering. Isn't trade pay in the navy/army/raf pensionable? Isn't flying pay effectively trade pay?. .. .I apologise in advance if I am talking out of my arsse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> .
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Unfortunately the brief is get our numbers up by the most cost effective means, so irrespective of trying to make us happy if they can get away with it for free that is what they will do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . We would all like to see the disparity in flying pay ended and for it to be pensionable, but if our lords & masters think they don't need to then they won't. IMHO if they did it would kill 2 birds with one stone, retention & recruitment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .I know the AEOp who is going to be on the AAR and that he will fight our corner to the best of his abilities, but don't underestimate the task of changing the establishment ethos.
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October 2002 will be the time that the truth will tell, cause then you can NGR whilst keeping the Apr 02 bribe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .. .Can anyone clarify how quickly you can escape by PVR post 22 years service?. .. .Also, does this post "course" payback apply to every course or just your first OCU?. .. .Yozzer, a statistic waiting for the right time
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Yozz,. .. .Spoke to the nice people in SHQ only yesterday about this very subject. I went, armed with my PVR/NGR form in hand, and asked 'wots the quickest I can get out?' . .answer: 'As soon as you want Sir!' apparently, the secret is to have a job (any old job!) to go to and you can be out in 28 days. . .Of course the proffessional adminers will say 'Oh no, 18 months blah' but I am assured that it can be as quick as that.. .I am submitting mine probably next week, and giving them a couple of months notice (got to get your term'leave, resetlement leave in etc). .. .Come and join the masses Yoz, maybe we can set a Burger Bar together eh?. .. .forgive the crap speeling!. .. .MM
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Couldn't agree more with Maniac55.Worked with Mr W for 2yrs, back on the same sqn as he is now. Give him your best support boys, because as (Maniac55 points out) he needs it!!!!!!!!
BoBus - getting more bulbous all the time on Sir Dicky's lot? Didn't know you'd made LHS on the '400 - well done mate!. .. .Out of our original course, all the pilots who haven't yet retired are now in the airlines (mostly Sir Dickie's) plus you, of course!