Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
Very pleased with the apparent recommendations of the report, but let's just wait and see what the politicians do with it, and what other fall-out there might be. Nevertheless, I have my fingers crossed.
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Yes, great news. But why was it leaked now....? That is odd & its a shame the fams weren't told first - they will be told next week I think. It is likely that any leak came from Whitehall - but why....? Something else for the cabinet & civil servants to beat the air ranks with? Youy can't say they didn't have it coming!
Prehaps the 'suits' realised at last that consecutive 'stars' have been eonomical with the truth - many ministers have been so poorly briefed!
As I said earlier, I think some of these stars and their lackeys will be very nervous - personally, I believe they should all be brought to book as they have been given so many opportunities to come clean but failed to grasp the nettle. Sadly, I suspect the real negligents will escape censure.
It is important that the exoneration of the crew takes centre stage for a while but it is perhaps equally vital that lessons are truly learned and oversight and regulation of the military airworthiness system becomes totally independent of the mod hierarchy. That would be a lasting tribute & could mean that the 29 deaths were not totally in vain. If this saves just one ac or life, it will be worth the past 17 year wait.
On a personal note, I pray that now all the families of the lost can at last start looking forward with hope for the future (especially those of Jon & Rick) - God Bless.
Flip
Prehaps the 'suits' realised at last that consecutive 'stars' have been eonomical with the truth - many ministers have been so poorly briefed!
As I said earlier, I think some of these stars and their lackeys will be very nervous - personally, I believe they should all be brought to book as they have been given so many opportunities to come clean but failed to grasp the nettle. Sadly, I suspect the real negligents will escape censure.
It is important that the exoneration of the crew takes centre stage for a while but it is perhaps equally vital that lessons are truly learned and oversight and regulation of the military airworthiness system becomes totally independent of the mod hierarchy. That would be a lasting tribute & could mean that the 29 deaths were not totally in vain. If this saves just one ac or life, it will be worth the past 17 year wait.
On a personal note, I pray that now all the families of the lost can at last start looking forward with hope for the future (especially those of Jon & Rick) - God Bless.
Flip
If and we don't know yet the findings of the report, will the crew, if found innocent of negligence, will the two Air Officers have their pensions suspended in punishment and their Honary positions reviewed for perpertrating such a miscarriage of justice and abborgation of Air Force Law, more importantly besmirching the reputation of the crew.
Regards
Air pig
Regards
Air pig
Long time reader, first time poster on this thread.
Good news today that the crew will be cleared.
I can still remember how dodgy those FADECs were during the short time I was on the HC2.
Much covering of senior airship ar$es for far too long has occurred here. Let's hope some senior officers and industry plonkers get what's coming to them
Good news today that the crew will be cleared.
I can still remember how dodgy those FADECs were during the short time I was on the HC2.
Much covering of senior airship ar$es for far too long has occurred here. Let's hope some senior officers and industry plonkers get what's coming to them
We can but hope for the right result of the Inquirey, maybe in the future that those at 'star rank' actually do read the Manual of Air Force law as many will not have read it since their days at OCTU, and then only in parts.
I hope that if the result exonerates the crew that Channel 4 news turn up at a couple of cetain address's and ask for an interview and of the ex-senior officers opinions and there views on the original report. In fact I would invite Jon Snow and their Defence correspondent and also Caroline Wyatt from the BBC to doorstep them, or just feed either of them to Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight. But, maybe just an appology to the families of the crew, who have suffered the denigration of their loved ones by unfeeling so called senior officers. Leadership, not how to do it, and maybe it should be taught how NOT to do it at Cranwell.
Although, we denigrate the Government at times, and with very good reason, Thank you for appointing Lord Phillip and to him for his deliberations and this dark episode of RAF history can now be closed with the right result even if it has taken so long to find justice for the long departed.
Thank you Brian and the many posters who have worked so hard through Pprune and other mediums for their work on behalf of Jon and Rick and their crew.
Per Ardua
Regards
Air pig.
I hope that if the result exonerates the crew that Channel 4 news turn up at a couple of cetain address's and ask for an interview and of the ex-senior officers opinions and there views on the original report. In fact I would invite Jon Snow and their Defence correspondent and also Caroline Wyatt from the BBC to doorstep them, or just feed either of them to Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight. But, maybe just an appology to the families of the crew, who have suffered the denigration of their loved ones by unfeeling so called senior officers. Leadership, not how to do it, and maybe it should be taught how NOT to do it at Cranwell.
Although, we denigrate the Government at times, and with very good reason, Thank you for appointing Lord Phillip and to him for his deliberations and this dark episode of RAF history can now be closed with the right result even if it has taken so long to find justice for the long departed.
Thank you Brian and the many posters who have worked so hard through Pprune and other mediums for their work on behalf of Jon and Rick and their crew.
Per Ardua
Regards
Air pig.
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Having followed this thread for a very long time, I feel like this could be a victory for those who have campaigned for so long.
It is shameful that this has taken so long, but great news IMHO all the same
Any errors are possibly due to having to send this from my phone.
It is shameful that this has taken so long, but great news IMHO all the same
Any errors are possibly due to having to send this from my phone.
Cool Mod
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About time.
I have been discussing this with some friends in F'boro today and the joy was a pleasure to see. I am delighted for all those who have fought and fought all these years through times of despair and wonder.
We gave one thought only to Wratten and Day and wished them a good stuffing. They WERE wrong!
I will always remember the smug face of Day at the HoL enquiry. Hopefully that smugness and that of his mate will soon turn to red.
We gave one thought only to Wratten and Day and wished them a good stuffing. They WERE wrong!
I will always remember the smug face of Day at the HoL enquiry. Hopefully that smugness and that of his mate will soon turn to red.
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A long time coming but fantastic news all the same. I look forward to the Defence Ministers apology due from the House of Commons on wednesday.
A GREAT BIG THANK YOU to all who have fought on the crews behalf.
A GREAT BIG THANK YOU to all who have fought on the crews behalf.
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Sir William Wratten
How about granting an interview to Jeremy Paxman now.
You sir, lack the balls.
On a Darwinian scale of life-forms, I rate you slightly above the amoeba but certainly lower than a News Of The World Journalist.
How about granting an interview to Jeremy Paxman now.
You sir, lack the balls.
On a Darwinian scale of life-forms, I rate you slightly above the amoeba but certainly lower than a News Of The World Journalist.
A really irritating PPRuNer
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Hi everyone.
Thank you, on behalf of everyone, for your kind words. We do not yet know the content of the report, so we are being very guarded in any response at this moment in time.
However, I agree with Jayteeto in that there are no winners here. 29 families still have a hole that will never be filled, and we must never lose sight of that. They have behaved with absolute dignity throughout this terrible injustice. I can only hope that this result (if true) will bring them closure.
I am optimistically cautious, but will wait until Wednesday before letting any guard down and, if the report is true, then that is a day for the families. It will be their day and for two families, they will have their son's reputations returned to them. That will be a joy, and a privilege, to share.
The support thoughout has been incredible and without it, I am sure that we would never have got this far. Thank you, seems so inadequate, but it will have to do for the moment.
Fingers still crossed for Wednesday.
My best, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
Thank you, on behalf of everyone, for your kind words. We do not yet know the content of the report, so we are being very guarded in any response at this moment in time.
However, I agree with Jayteeto in that there are no winners here. 29 families still have a hole that will never be filled, and we must never lose sight of that. They have behaved with absolute dignity throughout this terrible injustice. I can only hope that this result (if true) will bring them closure.
I am optimistically cautious, but will wait until Wednesday before letting any guard down and, if the report is true, then that is a day for the families. It will be their day and for two families, they will have their son's reputations returned to them. That will be a joy, and a privilege, to share.
The support thoughout has been incredible and without it, I am sure that we would never have got this far. Thank you, seems so inadequate, but it will have to do for the moment.
Fingers still crossed for Wednesday.
My best, as always.
Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook
flipster:
Indeed. No-one who has followed this disgraceful scandal over the years will have any doubts about the depths to which the MOD can stoop. Rather than suspecting that they are the victims of this leak, my bet would be that it has come direct from Main Building. If this Judicial Inquiry follows the well trodden path of finding in the pilots' favour it may also follow the well trodden path of being given scant regard by the MOD. We have already heard on Radio 4 the response of the CAS at the time, that they are unqualified people who do not understand aviation or airmanship, that it doesn't matter if the "aircraft went wrong" (sic), the pilots had broken "the rules". His pay-off was to ask rhetorically, "Do you think that the RAF would have blamed its pilots if there were any other reason than aircrew error?" To which I can only ask you all, "Well do you?".
Radio 4 PM (starts at 0450):
BBC iPlayer - PM: 09/07/2011
Yes, great news. But why was it leaked now....?
Radio 4 PM (starts at 0450):
BBC iPlayer - PM: 09/07/2011
Last edited by Chugalug2; 9th Jul 2011 at 19:34. Reason: Posting BBC iPlayer Mull coverage
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If this is true, Wednesday must be the beginning of the end. Most agree that the verdict lack the quality of evidence to prove Gross Negligence. Tuc's airworthiness argument must then be taken to a logical conclusion.
MoD spin artists and sundry bull****ters can bluster as much as they dare; but, at the end of the day, the PM has given his personal assurance:
No responses from Cazatou or John Purdey yet - perhaps we'll have to wait until after Fox's statement this coming week?
I've just noted this from the BBC:
As I mentioned in my previous letter to you, I do believe that the reputations of the two pilots deserve to be reinstated, as the Lords Select Committee recommended, and in the absence of any overwhelming argument presented to me as Prime Minister that is what I would do.
I've just noted this from the BBC:
An MoD spokeswoman said it would be "inappropriate" to comment before Mr Fox made his announcement to parliament.
She said: "The defence secretary asked Lord Philip to conduct a review of the evidence considered by the Board of Inquiry into the Mull of Kintyre Chinook accident.
"An announcement on the report's findings is due to be made to parliament shortly."
She said: "The defence secretary asked Lord Philip to conduct a review of the evidence considered by the Board of Inquiry into the Mull of Kintyre Chinook accident.
"An announcement on the report's findings is due to be made to parliament shortly."
Last edited by BEagle; 9th Jul 2011 at 19:58.
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There are no winners here
If the clear failings in the process for release to service and a post crash system that suffers so badly from service and self interest are understood to be utterly broken and proper, independent action taken to repair both systems them maybe, just maybe, RAF aircraft will take off in an airworthy condition and, should one happen to go down, people can rest assured that the reason for the crash is properly investigated, reported and whatever remedial measures required will be made.
Then, and only then will the truly important people be winners. If not, then the system will remain unchanged, those in positions of responsibility will hazard their budgets against crew's lives rather than doing the right thing and then use their own system to execute a cover up. Then Wratton, Day et al will be the winners along with all who follow in their footsteps.
The information we have so far is wonderful but, in the bigger picture, it's a very small battle in a much larger war. While I knew neither Tapper nor Cook, I'm willing to bet they'd want to win the war too. I know I'd like to see it put to bed...