Nimrod MRA.4
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Muppet,
I couldn't possibly say, Official Secrets Act and all that, but the Nimrod did/does carry 'survival and location' (rescue) aids aswell as many other things in it's belly.
Put it this way, there way a day when St. Mawgan was having a practice emergency, apparently it was a ship/boat that had notified a Nimrod that it's 'belly' was on fire thus rather than a practice St. Mawgan had a full emergency ..... but I can't suggest what might have been in the Nimrod's belly that ignited!
I couldn't possibly say, Official Secrets Act and all that, but the Nimrod did/does carry 'survival and location' (rescue) aids aswell as many other things in it's belly.
Put it this way, there way a day when St. Mawgan was having a practice emergency, apparently it was a ship/boat that had notified a Nimrod that it's 'belly' was on fire thus rather than a practice St. Mawgan had a full emergency ..... but I can't suggest what might have been in the Nimrod's belly that ignited!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Scotland
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nimrods always carried a pack up that contained at least 3 floaty things , SAR jet carried a lot more. SAR call outs , when everyone got behind the team and scrambled a jet , ******* miss that days , the horn would call and everyone would launch the jet , get number 2 on take over duty.
Last edited by RumPunch; 17th Oct 2010 at 16:00. Reason: Too much waffle
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have you sobered up yet RP? You really shouldn't drink and type you know fella 
The MR2 did indeed carry an ASR pack on every sortie (except displays) which consisted of a MS10 (multi-seat, 10 person) dinghy and 2 packs full of survival equipment linked together with floating rope. This could be used to provide shelter, food, water and location aids, amongst others, until another unit could pick the survivors up. If no helo was available, usually due to range, then the Nimrod would alert other vessels in the area and vector them in. In my books this counts as rescue, after the search that located the survivors, hence the Nimrod was/is indeed a SAR asset.
MadMark!!!
The MR2 did indeed carry an ASR pack on every sortie (except displays) which consisted of a MS10 (multi-seat, 10 person) dinghy and 2 packs full of survival equipment linked together with floating rope. This could be used to provide shelter, food, water and location aids, amongst others, until another unit could pick the survivors up. If no helo was available, usually due to range, then the Nimrod would alert other vessels in the area and vector them in. In my books this counts as rescue, after the search that located the survivors, hence the Nimrod was/is indeed a SAR asset.
MadMark!!!
Last edited by Mad_Mark; 17th Oct 2010 at 10:58.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tourist...
Well, many of those Lynx targets in GW1 at the northern end of the Gulf were located, tracked and then passed to the Lynx to be taken, as they were the ones with the right weapon at that time for that job. It was a joint effort, the Lynx may have done the actual sinking but the Nimrod found the targets to be sunk.
If you were there, or indeed knew WTF you were talking about, you would of course know that.
MadMark!!!
ASuW - Just remind me how many warships have been sunk by Nimrod. Now how many by the little Lynx?
If you were there, or indeed knew WTF you were talking about, you would of course know that.
MadMark!!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The RN name it's carriers QE and PoW hoping that we won't chop them as it would be a huge insult to Madge and Chaz. Also they subliminally influence us PPRuNers to nickname the JSF as Dave (No doubt an FAA plot to bin the RAF because we moved Australia and don't have to live on a boat for months). Genius, now the PM will be insulted if it is cancelled!
Here's an idea-
Goodbye Nimrod MRA4, hello........................ the Liam
Quick we only have a couple of days, spread the word
Whatever happens next week, good luck to all and make sure your sense of humour is fully serviceable
Here's an idea-
Goodbye Nimrod MRA4, hello........................ the Liam
Quick we only have a couple of days, spread the word
Whatever happens next week, good luck to all and make sure your sense of humour is fully serviceable
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I see it UK, namely Maggie, has made this mistake before that resulted in the taking of The Falkland's.
A few years previously to 1982, circa 1977, the Argies had considered invading FI, the Brits (Labour) got wind of it and despatched military atleast as far as Ascension Island, the Argies backed off, years later Maggie gets to power, helped, by promising the Armed Forces significant salary increases and PDQ announces the withdrawal from service of HMS Hermes and Endurance etc. etc. etc. and the rest is history.
Now, just recently, oil & gas has been confirmed off FI, the Argies are up in arms about it, the previous battle for the islands included, but not limited to, a significant Naval force, Marines, Army, FAA and RAF Harriers, In-Flight Refuellers, Vulcan Bombers, Nimrods, Transport Aircraft, Chinooks etc. etc. etc.
So, with the exploration of oil & gas in the region, what position might the UK military be in again to react to an invasion of The Falkland Islands?
A few years previously to 1982, circa 1977, the Argies had considered invading FI, the Brits (Labour) got wind of it and despatched military atleast as far as Ascension Island, the Argies backed off, years later Maggie gets to power, helped, by promising the Armed Forces significant salary increases and PDQ announces the withdrawal from service of HMS Hermes and Endurance etc. etc. etc. and the rest is history.
Now, just recently, oil & gas has been confirmed off FI, the Argies are up in arms about it, the previous battle for the islands included, but not limited to, a significant Naval force, Marines, Army, FAA and RAF Harriers, In-Flight Refuellers, Vulcan Bombers, Nimrods, Transport Aircraft, Chinooks etc. etc. etc.
So, with the exploration of oil & gas in the region, what position might the UK military be in again to react to an invasion of The Falkland Islands?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 932
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Fogg
Presumably the point is that (i) we have much larger force down there at any time now than we did in '82, (ii) have air defence of FI which didn't exist in '82 and (iii) can reinforce the Falklands PDQ if it was required - and have you looked at the Argentine ORBAT since 1982?
Tourist
I'm not from the Kipper fleet, but may I suggest that if you feel safer in the UK SAR area of responsibility following the withdrawal of the MR2 without replacement rather than before, you're an idiot.
S41
Presumably the point is that (i) we have much larger force down there at any time now than we did in '82, (ii) have air defence of FI which didn't exist in '82 and (iii) can reinforce the Falklands PDQ if it was required - and have you looked at the Argentine ORBAT since 1982?
Tourist
I'm not from the Kipper fleet, but may I suggest that if you feel safer in the UK SAR area of responsibility following the withdrawal of the MR2 without replacement rather than before, you're an idiot.
S41
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cloud 9
Posts: 2,948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Squirrel,
The Argies military wasn't that great in 1982, a C130 'bomber', second hand warships etc, but they pulled one over on the Brits despite such substandard equipments.
So how many times would a Tornado need to be in-flight refuelled to make it Ascension-FI-Ascension, what reconnaisance aircraft would the Brit military use?
So a handful of aircraft in Mount Pleasant is going to thwart any invasion that may be planned?
The Argies military wasn't that great in 1982, a C130 'bomber', second hand warships etc, but they pulled one over on the Brits despite such substandard equipments.
So how many times would a Tornado need to be in-flight refuelled to make it Ascension-FI-Ascension, what reconnaisance aircraft would the Brit military use?
So a handful of aircraft in Mount Pleasant is going to thwart any invasion that may be planned?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The sandpit
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Erm....
ASW - Merlin may not have the range/speed, but it certainly has the capabilities.
MCT - You are having a laugh. loads of superior platforms for all Nimrod MCT tasks.
ASuW - Just remind me how many warships have been sunk by Nimrod. Now how many by the little Lynx?
SAR - No, you do "S". The SeaKing does all the SAR
ASW - Merlin may not have the range/speed, but it certainly has the capabilities.
MCT - You are having a laugh. loads of superior platforms for all Nimrod MCT tasks.
ASuW - Just remind me how many warships have been sunk by Nimrod. Now how many by the little Lynx?
SAR - No, you do "S". The SeaKing does all the SAR
I'm not by any means knocking the Merlin in terms of it's capability but it's not quite the same is what a Nimrod can provide - to be able to fulfil the ASW role fully and successfully it requires both, in my opinion.
MCT? I think you'll find that there is no other platform that can get close to an MPA's capability.
ASuW - how does a rotary asset go about detecting warships at ranges greater than 150nm?
SAR - that's been answered pretty well by the other guys on the forum.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joe and all the other people
"but the thought of having no "real" ASW/MCT/ASuW/SAR capability completely bamboozles me.
That was the origional statement made by Joe. Just think about it for a second.
A ridiculous and unbelievably solipsistic statement.
Nimrod is a great aircraft, and I hope we keep them (ideally given to the RN) but lets not treat it like the second coming.
"to be able to fulfil the ASW role fully and successfully it requires both, in my opinion."
As an ex ASW warrior, I Concur that both is best, but we have a "real" ASW capability all over the world without Nimrod.
"MCT? I think you'll find that there is no other platform that can get close to an MPA's capability"
As an ex MCT pilot, I Disagree. One of your own assets superior in many ways, and ours can do the rest. On an MCT, nobody says "best we all go home, the Nimrod is tits" In fact its loss doesn't even change the plan.
"ASuW - how does a rotary asset go about detecting warships at ranges greater than 150nm?"
Not easily. But there is a lot more to ASuw than finding it, and you don't have to find it beyond 150nm to kill it. ASuw is something the RN has been about for hundreds of years. The idea that we might as well give up now that Nimrod is gone is farcical.
And as an ex SAR boy with tours in Prestwick and 771 don't get me wrong. It was always nice to have the warm feeling on a long ranger of a Nimrod above you. But to suggest that Nimrod is the most important SAR asset is silly. No Helicopters equals no SAR. No Nimrod means a reduced capability in one small area of SAR.
"but the thought of having no "real" ASW/MCT/ASuW/SAR capability completely bamboozles me.
That was the origional statement made by Joe. Just think about it for a second.
A ridiculous and unbelievably solipsistic statement.
Nimrod is a great aircraft, and I hope we keep them (ideally given to the RN) but lets not treat it like the second coming.
"to be able to fulfil the ASW role fully and successfully it requires both, in my opinion."
As an ex ASW warrior, I Concur that both is best, but we have a "real" ASW capability all over the world without Nimrod.
"MCT? I think you'll find that there is no other platform that can get close to an MPA's capability"
As an ex MCT pilot, I Disagree. One of your own assets superior in many ways, and ours can do the rest. On an MCT, nobody says "best we all go home, the Nimrod is tits" In fact its loss doesn't even change the plan.
"ASuW - how does a rotary asset go about detecting warships at ranges greater than 150nm?"
Not easily. But there is a lot more to ASuw than finding it, and you don't have to find it beyond 150nm to kill it. ASuw is something the RN has been about for hundreds of years. The idea that we might as well give up now that Nimrod is gone is farcical.
And as an ex SAR boy with tours in Prestwick and 771 don't get me wrong. It was always nice to have the warm feeling on a long ranger of a Nimrod above you. But to suggest that Nimrod is the most important SAR asset is silly. No Helicopters equals no SAR. No Nimrod means a reduced capability in one small area of SAR.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mad Mark
"Well, many of those Lynx targets in GW1 at the northern end of the Gulf were located, tracked and then passed to the Lynx to be taken, as they were the ones with the right weapon at that time for that job. It was a joint effort, the Lynx may have done the actual sinking but the Nimrod found the targets to be sunk."
I am not the one saying that the loss of a particular asset will leave us with no "real" capability.
To call finding things the "real capability" is silly. The Lynx AH is good at "finding things" for apache, but it is not the daddy.
"Well, many of those Lynx targets in GW1 at the northern end of the Gulf were located, tracked and then passed to the Lynx to be taken, as they were the ones with the right weapon at that time for that job. It was a joint effort, the Lynx may have done the actual sinking but the Nimrod found the targets to be sunk."
I am not the one saying that the loss of a particular asset will leave us with no "real" capability.
To call finding things the "real capability" is silly. The Lynx AH is good at "finding things" for apache, but it is not the daddy.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Helicopters equals no SAR. No Nimrod means a reduced capability in one small area of SAR.
I have done several Nimrod SAR missions when there has been no helo (range, availability, etc).We all agree that ASW, ASuW, MCT, SAR, ISTAR, erc, are ALL joint ops. It is your comments, like the above quote, that people have issues with you over.
MadMark!!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mad Mark
"I have done several Nimrod SAR missions when there has been no helo"
Either our definitions of "rescue" are vastly different, or your secret winchmen have my ultimate respect.........
Leon
Who mentioned tanker trails?
"I have done several Nimrod SAR missions when there has been no helo"
Either our definitions of "rescue" are vastly different, or your secret winchmen have my ultimate respect.........
Leon
Who mentioned tanker trails?
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Blighty
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So you're bleeting because all of these tasks are going to be hit because we lose a platform...
Tourist, you mentioned all the various aircraft and flights you've worked on...
But have failed to mention that Nimrod does sar AND mct AND asuw AND asw AND istar AND anti-terrorist warfare AND about another dozen ops that most people are not privvy to...
Do use a favour and tell us how many UK assets can do all of those jobs, most simultaneously, and have the capability and range to do 3 different ops, in a single mission, from the bay or biscay all the way to the Orkney's...
Simple fact of the matter is that we need around 5 different assets to accomplish what the MRA4 is capable of in one airframe. The only thing it lacks is (except coming into service) clearance to fire weapons.
Do us a favour and remove the saddle from your high horse of "helicopters are better than everything else", and accept that Nimrods are a vital asset, whether or not the government agrees.
Tourist, you mentioned all the various aircraft and flights you've worked on...
But have failed to mention that Nimrod does sar AND mct AND asuw AND asw AND istar AND anti-terrorist warfare AND about another dozen ops that most people are not privvy to...
Do use a favour and tell us how many UK assets can do all of those jobs, most simultaneously, and have the capability and range to do 3 different ops, in a single mission, from the bay or biscay all the way to the Orkney's...
Simple fact of the matter is that we need around 5 different assets to accomplish what the MRA4 is capable of in one airframe. The only thing it lacks is (except coming into service) clearance to fire weapons.
Do us a favour and remove the saddle from your high horse of "helicopters are better than everything else", and accept that Nimrods are a vital asset, whether or not the government agrees.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Either our definitions of "rescue" are vastly different, or your secret winchmen have my ultimate respect.........
Yes, helos are used for most jobs for their ability to quickly access many locations and equally quickly transport any casualties to hospital. But, I can assure you that I have been involved in RESCUES without helo involvement, without even having to deploy our secret winchman
Read my earlier post, you CAN do the 'rescue' part of SAR without a helo or winchman when in open ocean (use other shipping), coastal waters (RNLI, fishers, etc), cliffs (HMCG) and even in the mountains (MRT's). Just because casualties are not brought aboard the aircraft does not mean that our involvement had no part to play in the actual rescue. On one occasion it was OUR attracting the attention of a fisher through the use of visual signals, leading to comms on 16, that enabled the casualty to be taken out of the water. Yes a helo had been scrambled but was still en-route when the casualty was taken aboard the fisher.
MadMark!!!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Home
Posts: 3,399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mad Mark
My god man, next you will be calling yourself a CAS asset because you queued someone on.
You are not Rescue capable.
You are a SAR support asset and it is time you poured yourself a large glass of man-the-Fxxx-up and dealt with it!
My god man, next you will be calling yourself a CAS asset because you queued someone on.
You are not Rescue capable.
You are a SAR support asset and it is time you poured yourself a large glass of man-the-Fxxx-up and dealt with it!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK, sometimes!
Age: 74
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So are you saying that a FAC is not a CAS asset?
I have never said that we are 'rescue capable' in your words, but that we DO conduct SAR, we search and FACILITATE the rescue using whatever assets are available. You are taking the 'R' part of 'SAR' fat too literally!
I have never said that we are 'rescue capable' in your words, but that we DO conduct SAR, we search and FACILITATE the rescue using whatever assets are available. You are taking the 'R' part of 'SAR' fat too literally!