SAS imposter rumbled

[sled dog]

In my day ( a long time ago ) you got a GSM for service in an operational theatre. then a Clasp was issued for any subsequent service in another theatre. When were Clasps discontinued and seperate medals issued ? My single gong with clasps seems insignificant compared to other people with multiple medals. Anyone else have any views ?

[PPRuNe Pop]

Idle curiosity, but what would a Waterloo medal fetch in hard cash. I wasn't there you understand!

[cobaltfrog]

The Waterloo Medal as issued in 1815, depends on who it was issued to.

if Heavy Cavalry then £1800-2000
Scots Greys - £2500-3000
Light Cav - £1500-1800
Royal Artillery - £1100-1300
RHA - £1200-1400
Foot Guards - 1st, 27th, 28th, 30th, 42nd, 44th, 52nd, 73rd, 79th, 92nd and 95th - £2300-2800
also rans - £1300-1600
Kings German Legion - £1000 ish
Colvilles Division - £1000 ish

Hope that helps!!

CF

[Tourist]

Ah, the irony of cobaltfrog posting on a walt thread.........

[parabellum]

PPRuNe Pop - I used Spinks to auction a medal for me, it was posthumously awarded to my great uncle for the defence of Mafeking, it was valued at GBP300 to GBP400 but a couple of people wanted it badly enough and it sold at GBP1250.00, so catalogue values are only a guide.

The defence of Mafeking medal is much more rare than the relief of Mafeking medal as there were not so many awarded.

[Tankertrashnav]

but what would a Waterloo medal fetch in hard cash

.

Cobaltfrog makes a good point. In around 1988 I sold a Waterloo Medal to a Cornet (2nd Lieut equivalent) in the Scots Greys who was killed in the famous charge of the greys, often considered to be the turning point in the battle. Catalogue value then was around £250 and I got £850 for it. Now it would easily make £10k against a cat value of £3k.

Another one I wish I'd kept for the pension fund. Ho hum

Sled Dog - In answer to the question of multiple clasp GSMs, the later GSM which had been awarded for campaigns from 1962 on ceased to be awarded wef 31 July 2007, when eligibility for the 'Northern Ireland' clasp ceased. There were 13 clasps in all, the rarest being 'South Vietnam' which was only awarded to 70 Australian and (I believe) NZ recipients. The maximum number of clasps to one recipient was 6 (I got one!)

[Super 64]

Cheapens it, my oath!

How about the campaign medals that re being given out (Aust) for people who never actually enter the country for which the medal was cast.

Or getting two campaign medals for a single deployment (to conduct duty-free shopping), a AASM and never set foot inside either of the countries in conflict.

S64

[kiwi grey]

Medals for doing nothing

I'm fairly sure I remember a story (probably on PRuNe, but I can't find it) about a USAF F15 pilot who made a weather-related course diversion en route Iceland - UK, which took him over Northern Ireland (at 40,000 feet). The story went that he was surprised and embarrassed to subsequently receive an 'air combat' decoration for his activities in this hot combat zone

[Feline]

AA - post #154:

You could join the Army before age 18 of course in those days, but the youngest age he'd have got onto Selection would have been early 20s, as he'd have to have done three years absolute minimum adult service, more like five in his first/parent regiment - I'm not sure many regulars did Selection before the age of 22, so it'd have been 1970 before he'd be in possession of his beige headgear.

Just a small point of order: You could actually have legitimately got your beige headgear (with badge) at the age of 18 (or perhaps younger?) - by way of 23rd SAS which, being a TA regiment, didn't insist of three years prior service. OK - not Regular, but still legit headgear.

Not that, in the 60's, 23 had any remote prospect of being allowed anywhere near any embassy, friendly or otherwise. More likely to be found on a cold, wet German hill/mountain, counting and identifying Russians passing by (and occasionally thieving Warsaw Pact supplies to keep body and soul together) ...

[airborne_artist]

Feline

Having served in 21 in the 80s I know the routes to the beige lid. A good mate went 21 -> 22, but had to serve a year in the Paras after passing 22 Selection. No-one that I knew of got to do 22 Selection from 21/23 with less than three years' TA service, so the timescales remain the same, and as you say, no-one in 21/23 would have picked up any medals at all, let alone that haul.

[Gainesy]

Totally NFI on the Cold War medal, wouldn't mind me Cold Weather Flying Jacket back though. Er, what happened to the good/bad kit thread anyway?

[str12]

Medals

kiwi grey

15 years ago I met a US Marines Captain on board an RN Minesweeper in Bremerhaven, Germany, during a VIP reception. After a couple of G&Ts the conversation focused on his medals and he sheepishly admitted that one was for being in the Northern Ireland combat zone...at 34 000 feet in Business Class on a US Airlines flight to Germany.

The p!ss was extracted from him for a while but he took it well.

The minesweeper had led the fleet into the Arabian Gulf before the ground assault of the the first Gulf War kicked off.

str12

[An Teallach]

Being bored, and reading this Waltery, I was prompted to look up the subject of What to do with a Walt? from way back in 2006.

It seems he's still sporting an MBE but has demoted himself from having been the only SSgt in the Black Watch to the humbler rank of Cpl. He still doesn't have the wit to realise that the honorary FRAM he has awarded himself does not stand for Member of the Royal Academy of Music link.

I wonder if his new tome of humorous bagpiping anecdotes includes the night of 11 Nov 06 when he was exposed for the walting eejit that he is? Somehow I doubt it.

[Dan Winterland]

Flying the British Tanker on Operation provide Carpets (sorry, that should read Operation Provide Comfort) from Incirlik involved flying a towline over northern Iraq. The flight was very popular with the Americans because they qualified for another medal if they crossed the border. One pilot I flew with got on the PA and said:

"We have now just crossed over the border. Those of you who are in the Aerican forces can have another medal. Those of you in the British forces can have another cup of tea".

One medal which amuses me is the Purple Heart, awarded for being injured in combat. I have one friend who copped an AK47 round through the arm flying a Bird Dog, artillery spotting in vietnam. He flew home with one arm useless. He probably earned his, but I met one American who got his for tripping over a tent rope and breaking his ankle - the base was being shelled at the time. He was particularly embarrassed having to explain the circumstances of it's award!

But it must be very hard to spot an American Walt as they seem to have so may medals that to investigate them all must seem too daunting a task.




As for the award of British medals, the decisions regarding the award of the Kosovo medals was a travesty. One friend got hers as a supplier in Ancona, miles away from the action in Italy. She came back with a magnificent tan having spent most of the war on the beach, whereas people who were flying ''sausage side'' and getting SAMs shot at them weren't entitled to the gong because they hadn't flown the required 12 missions - or whatever the requirement was.

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Possibly this is something that goes back more years than most would think, I once embarrased a Antique/Junk shop owner who was attending to a old lady (80ish) who wished to raise a little money by selling her husbands medals, the tightwad offered her £5.00 for a set of 2nd WW medals, but I could clearly see the Burma Star was amongst the set on the bar, you didnt get that for doing nothing, so tight wad was succesful and parted with £5.00, I followed the lady outside and engaged her in conversation discovering she was very short of money she said she had to sell many things just to get by since her Albert had passed on, because she looked very much like my old dear departed maternal Granny, I possibly foolishly gave her a lump of cash and offered to drive her to her next destination, she refused the lift saying she had her bus pass, so off I went feeling a little better back into the tightwads shop, he was given the ultimatum give me those medals or you wont have any of my business ever again, one minute later I was slamming the door with the medal bar in my hand, when I showed this to my Old dad, he said it looked like some one had not been quite truthful with this bar of medals, he reasoned for a Lancshire Fusilier from the lower ranks to have served in Africa, Italy and Europe(covered by the relative Stars) he felt that the addition of the Burma Star, was possibly False, when I later offered the Burma Star Association in Blackpool the Star that I now had, I was told the named Fusilier was not known, So quite possible this sort of Medal fakery has been going on for a long time.

But I was still happy to help out the little Old Lady. I still have all the medals but am loath to sell them, for I feel it cheapens some bodys effort and possible injury to do that.

Peter R-B
Vfr

[lindslow]

Pilots notes

One of my sisters old boyfriends ran the tale that he had been in the RAF as a pilot and even gave me some JP5 pilots notes with 'F/O ******' (his name) written on them.

I suspected he was telling porkies and some time later his Mum confirmed during general conversation at a party that he had been an airframe fitter!

Thankfully he's now an 'old boyfriend'

[barnstormer1968]

I was having a conversation recently, to do with claims/beliefs made by folks suffering mental illness. Why are the vast majority of walts from (well not really from, that is) well known groups. I have met quite a few CIA agents, and many handfuls of ex SAS troopers (including some of the many thousands from Prince's Gate). Virtually none are ex mossad or GRU, why is this?

Does anyone have any theories on this? Surely it would add mystique for someone to say that they had done something secret, but could not talk about it, and thus show (fake) integrity and loyalty. Also, I wonder what percentage of story tellers actually believe their own hype?

On the other hand, many walts (an obvious politcian, and Jim Shortt spring to mind), carry on with their stories regardless of challenge, and seem to do very well out of it.

Just my two penneth.

[Gainesy]

Walting as a JP stude? I'd stick to being a Fitter.

[Tankertrashnav]

Re Americans getting medals for briefly overflying combat zones, when I was posted from Seletar to Kai Tak in January 1968, I flew up in a Bristol Freighter of RNZAF which involved a refuelling stop at Qui Nhon in Vietnam. This was a fascinating 90 minutes, with Hueycobras and Hueys blackening the sky, the base being home to more helicopters than the RAF had on strength.

When I mentioned this to a US Army officer on R & R in HK, he told me I would have been entitled to the Vietnam Campaign medal just for landing in theatre, and some weeks later a boxed medal and ribbon bar duly arrived in the post from him. Needless to say I never tried to wear it, but it was a nice souvenir, and I can use it to back up my "when I was in 'Nam" tales when in Walt mode

[ShyTorque]

Barnstormer, I could tell you - but then I'd have to kill you...