SAS imposter rumbled
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Can I wear medals belonging to members of my family?
The official position regarding wearing medals other than your own is that they should not be worn. However, it was generally accepted from soon after the Great War that widows of the fallen wore their late husband's medals on the right breast on suitable occasions.
More recently it seems to have become the custom for any family member to wear medals of deceased relations in this way, sometimes trying to give a complete family military history by wearing several groups. Although understandable it is officially incorrect, and when several groups are worn it does little for the dignity of the original owners. One thing is certain, no action will be taken officially if anyone wears a relation's medals, though some officious member of the public might comment.
In the Legion this practice is banned for Standard Bearers and discouraged in relation to others.
The official position regarding wearing medals other than your own is that they should not be worn. However, it was generally accepted from soon after the Great War that widows of the fallen wore their late husband's medals on the right breast on suitable occasions.
More recently it seems to have become the custom for any family member to wear medals of deceased relations in this way, sometimes trying to give a complete family military history by wearing several groups. Although understandable it is officially incorrect, and when several groups are worn it does little for the dignity of the original owners. One thing is certain, no action will be taken officially if anyone wears a relation's medals, though some officious member of the public might comment.
In the Legion this practice is banned for Standard Bearers and discouraged in relation to others.
Gentleman Aviator
I wonder if any of the RBL were brave/anal/cold-hearted enough (lovely phrase Melchett 
) to give the above advice to the members of the War Widows' Association who wore their husbands' medals at the RBL Festival of Remembrance last month .......
) to give the above advice to the members of the War Widows' Association who wore their husbands' medals at the RBL Festival of Remembrance last month .......
Avoid imitations
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Makes quite a contrast to my old uncle who never claimed any of his WW2 medals, from his RAF service, let alone wore them in public, until my late father (who was a very active member of the RAFA in his later life) urged him to do so.
Uncle, then in his late eighties, finally received them by post. He apparently looked briefly at them and put them to one side. Although we regularly visited him I never saw them until my son, as his god-son, was bequeathed them four years ago. Amongst them is a Burma Star. He never even told anyone in the family that he'd been part of that campaign. Although he wasn't aircrew, I do know that he was involved in an aircraft crash on his way back from India.
Uncle, then in his late eighties, finally received them by post. He apparently looked briefly at them and put them to one side. Although we regularly visited him I never saw them until my son, as his god-son, was bequeathed them four years ago. Amongst them is a Burma Star. He never even told anyone in the family that he'd been part of that campaign. Although he wasn't aircrew, I do know that he was involved in an aircraft crash on his way back from India.
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Thank you for all the comments so far.
I just think it would be nice for me to do, and as for any officious onlookers, I am happy to declare to them that:
A. I am not a war widow.
B. Yes, I am too young to have earned the Palestine medal etc.
I just think it would be nice for me to do, and as for any officious onlookers, I am happy to declare to them that:
A. I am not a war widow.
B. Yes, I am too young to have earned the Palestine medal etc.
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Regarding whether s.197 Army Act 1955 applies:
- It is in the section of the Act entitled 'Offences relating to military matters punishable by civil courts', which creates offences that civilians may commit.
- The Armed Forces Act 2006 has provisions that allow certain offences under the single service discipline acts (including s.197 AA 1955) to continue, subject to renewal by statutory instrument.
- SI 2009/1752, the Armed Forces, Army, Air Force and Naval Discipline Acts (Continuation) Order, came into effect on July 8th 2009.
- Article 2 of that order says:
The Armed Forces Act 2006, the Army Act 1955, the Air Force Act 1955 and the Naval Discipline Act 1957 shall, instead of expiring on 8th November 2009, continue in force until 8th November 2010.
So, the Army Act isn't quite dead (it sort of gets annual CPR to keep bits of it going!) and s.197, despite being in the Army Act, does apply to civilians.
- It is in the section of the Act entitled 'Offences relating to military matters punishable by civil courts', which creates offences that civilians may commit.
- The Armed Forces Act 2006 has provisions that allow certain offences under the single service discipline acts (including s.197 AA 1955) to continue, subject to renewal by statutory instrument.
- SI 2009/1752, the Armed Forces, Army, Air Force and Naval Discipline Acts (Continuation) Order, came into effect on July 8th 2009.
- Article 2 of that order says:
The Armed Forces Act 2006, the Army Act 1955, the Air Force Act 1955 and the Naval Discipline Act 1957 shall, instead of expiring on 8th November 2009, continue in force until 8th November 2010.
So, the Army Act isn't quite dead (it sort of gets annual CPR to keep bits of it going!) and s.197, despite being in the Army Act, does apply to civilians.
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As to wearing your families medals we have an active Dawn Parade here on ANZAC Day and lots of people wear there reli's medals on the right. In NZ it seems to be a 'rule' that everyone understands. In fact there are more medals on the right than the left 
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In Australia, it's becoming more and more common to see the children or grandchildren of (I'm assuming deceased) servicemen marching in the Anzac Day march with the dead rellie's unit and wearing his medals.
While I can see that with the passing of time, it's the only way the WW1 and WW2 units can continue to have a presence at the march, I have to admit to being somewhat ambivalent about the practice.
It's also now quite common to see people who, when they were in the Service, may have sported one (usually incomplete) row of medals, but now, thanks to recent Federal Government decisions to hand out medals to all and sundry by the breakfast cereal packet load, those same men look like a Russian or Yank veteran. (I know one bloke who told me that when he left the RAAF, he had one full row, which included a DFC. Now, he tells me, he has four complete rows - 16 *** medals, 12 of which didn't exist when he wore the blue!)
Myself, I think it's cheapened the whole thing.
While I can see that with the passing of time, it's the only way the WW1 and WW2 units can continue to have a presence at the march, I have to admit to being somewhat ambivalent about the practice.
It's also now quite common to see people who, when they were in the Service, may have sported one (usually incomplete) row of medals, but now, thanks to recent Federal Government decisions to hand out medals to all and sundry by the breakfast cereal packet load, those same men look like a Russian or Yank veteran. (I know one bloke who told me that when he left the RAAF, he had one full row, which included a DFC. Now, he tells me, he has four complete rows - 16 *** medals, 12 of which didn't exist when he wore the blue!)
Myself, I think it's cheapened the whole thing.
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Apropos the wearing of medals...there has been a huge increase in New Zealand in latter years of the attendance of young people at the ANZAC Day Dawn Services; all wearing their late relatives medals on the right side, a practise approved by the RSA incidentally. Good on them all!
As for the imposter.......is it too politically incorrect for a couple of genuine ex-servicemen to quietly take him behind the hangar and offer some counseling.......
On another tack...I was approached four years ago by a partially blind English gentleman whom I knew was a Brit WW2 vet. Mr Crisp by name, a Yorkshireman.
He had served overseas for well over four years, in the Royal Engineers, or "Ginger Beers" as he termed them, first in the desert, then in Italy. He wanted to know if I could help him get the medals to which he was entitled.. I knew I could do that, so I agreed that I would, then curiosity got the better of me and I asked why he hadn't collected them on demob? "There were a bloody queue", he replied, "and I'd spent too bloody long standing in bloody queues".
So I got his details, and wrote to London, and his medals duly arrived. I paid for them to be mounted properly, but by which time he had been moved into a rest home. He had no known relatives that I knew of, so I took the medals up to him, found his room, and there he was sitting up in bed wearing a cloth cap! When I stopped laughing, I handed them over, and the reward of seeing them pinned on his chest was enough for me.
Sadly, he died not long after, and I attended the funeral; not many there at all, but the funeral director mentioned someone , a nephew, had come from the UK. The medals had meanwhile been sent to me on Mr Crisp's instructions, so I handed them over to the nephew. End of story.
As for the imposter.......is it too politically incorrect for a couple of genuine ex-servicemen to quietly take him behind the hangar and offer some counseling.......
On another tack...I was approached four years ago by a partially blind English gentleman whom I knew was a Brit WW2 vet. Mr Crisp by name, a Yorkshireman.
He had served overseas for well over four years, in the Royal Engineers, or "Ginger Beers" as he termed them, first in the desert, then in Italy. He wanted to know if I could help him get the medals to which he was entitled.. I knew I could do that, so I agreed that I would, then curiosity got the better of me and I asked why he hadn't collected them on demob? "There were a bloody queue", he replied, "and I'd spent too bloody long standing in bloody queues".
So I got his details, and wrote to London, and his medals duly arrived. I paid for them to be mounted properly, but by which time he had been moved into a rest home. He had no known relatives that I knew of, so I took the medals up to him, found his room, and there he was sitting up in bed wearing a cloth cap! When I stopped laughing, I handed them over, and the reward of seeing them pinned on his chest was enough for me.
Sadly, he died not long after, and I attended the funeral; not many there at all, but the funeral director mentioned someone , a nephew, had come from the UK. The medals had meanwhile been sent to me on Mr Crisp's instructions, so I handed them over to the nephew. End of story.
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Family medals
The wearing of family members medals by the nearest and dearest is in its self an act of remeberance, would serving and retired members mind... id like to think not.
Myself, I think it's cheapened the whole thing.
I was talking to a 21 y/o CISOC digger last ANZAC day. He had been to Ache for the tsunami releif and the sandpit, where for the most part was not allowed to leave the compound except to go to and from the airport. Yet he was wearing five medals.
I know Infantry soldiers who have done it much harder for much less. The RAAF are good at handing them out- 1 sortie=1 medal
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Mad Jack
My best WALT was nicknamed 'Mad Jack.
One night flying from the land of 'peace and tranquility' towards the land of 'the massage parlour', with Mad Jack flying and my wife on the jump seat, we were regaled with stories of how he had to sort out the RF-4 (Phantom) loss rate in Vietnam for the Americans, who had not a clue, his exploits at ETPS, his flight over Russia in a U-2, spinning trials on the Lightning and so on.
Eventually the 'mem' got fed up with this rubbish and tapped him on the shoulder and said "actually J*hn I used to play tennis with your wife when you were a junior pilot on the Canberra at Akrotiri"!
Instant hush! He did not take the transport to the hotel, and we only saw him again at briefing two days later, for a completely silent trip back to that Islamic paradise.
One night flying from the land of 'peace and tranquility' towards the land of 'the massage parlour', with Mad Jack flying and my wife on the jump seat, we were regaled with stories of how he had to sort out the RF-4 (Phantom) loss rate in Vietnam for the Americans, who had not a clue, his exploits at ETPS, his flight over Russia in a U-2, spinning trials on the Lightning and so on.
Eventually the 'mem' got fed up with this rubbish and tapped him on the shoulder and said "actually J*hn I used to play tennis with your wife when you were a junior pilot on the Canberra at Akrotiri"!
Instant hush! He did not take the transport to the hotel, and we only saw him again at briefing two days later, for a completely silent trip back to that Islamic paradise.
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Thunderguts.
an interesting tale there, but I can't quite work out the name you disguised.
When you typed J*hn, could it have been 'frank' or 'Bernard'? Could you be a bit less secretive, so I at least have a chance to guess the name
At a function once, I did meet a chap who had been a blackbird pilot (CIA), and also a POW in Vietnam, but as he was guest of honour, I am hoping he was the real deal, and not some delivery driver for the local tesco's. Although I do remember a thread where Jim Shortt, was the chief instructor on an RAF course once!
an interesting tale there, but I can't quite work out the name you disguised.
When you typed J*hn, could it have been 'frank' or 'Bernard'? Could you be a bit less secretive, so I at least have a chance to guess the name
At a function once, I did meet a chap who had been a blackbird pilot (CIA), and also a POW in Vietnam, but as he was guest of honour, I am hoping he was the real deal, and not some delivery driver for the local tesco's. Although I do remember a thread where Jim Shortt, was the chief instructor on an RAF course once!
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Commemorative Medals
As we are discussing gongs in general, thought it might be an interesting variation to raise the issue of commemorative medals. The RAF Museum and the Royal British Legion are both actively "marketing" a "Cold War" Medal, for purchase of course. Some see them as a form of bling, whilst others wear them with a sense of pride.
A while back I learnt that commemorative medals have an honourable precedence in the UK. Watching an episode of Antiques Roadshow they displayed a Battle of Trafalgar commemorative medal that had been awarded to a midshipman on HMS Temeraire. Apparently the Temeraire drew the French fire off Nelson's Victory at a crucial time in the battle.
A commemorative medal was issued on the instructions of Queen Victoria to those who participated in the Battle - forty three years (43) after the event. Apparently the MoD of the time had done nothing immediately following, and, I suspect to minimise costs, it was only issued to survivors who were still alive, not descendants or relatives. Sounds typical. The fact that the MoD have passed the responsibility to the Royal British Legion for similar awards now doesn't, in my opinion, make them any less relevant.
Given the Berlin crisis of 1961 and the Cuban crisis of 1962, I would doubt that anyone can state that the Cold War wasn't for real in the early-mid sixties. Regular incursions by the Soviets meant many of us were on a war footing. Scrambling our Vulcans at 02.00 on a cold winters morning in Yorkshire was very much a front line activity. Who knows in 2032 - 43 years after 1991, it might be recognised officially as such.
The question I am posing is whether the Cold War was a real war, or just something made up by the politicians to scare the general populace, and whether wearing a commemorative medal to signify one's preparedness to man the barricades against the Soviet hordes is good or bad. Even if one does have to pay for it.
A while back I learnt that commemorative medals have an honourable precedence in the UK. Watching an episode of Antiques Roadshow they displayed a Battle of Trafalgar commemorative medal that had been awarded to a midshipman on HMS Temeraire. Apparently the Temeraire drew the French fire off Nelson's Victory at a crucial time in the battle.
A commemorative medal was issued on the instructions of Queen Victoria to those who participated in the Battle - forty three years (43) after the event. Apparently the MoD of the time had done nothing immediately following, and, I suspect to minimise costs, it was only issued to survivors who were still alive, not descendants or relatives. Sounds typical. The fact that the MoD have passed the responsibility to the Royal British Legion for similar awards now doesn't, in my opinion, make them any less relevant.
Given the Berlin crisis of 1961 and the Cuban crisis of 1962, I would doubt that anyone can state that the Cold War wasn't for real in the early-mid sixties. Regular incursions by the Soviets meant many of us were on a war footing. Scrambling our Vulcans at 02.00 on a cold winters morning in Yorkshire was very much a front line activity. Who knows in 2032 - 43 years after 1991, it might be recognised officially as such.
The question I am posing is whether the Cold War was a real war, or just something made up by the politicians to scare the general populace, and whether wearing a commemorative medal to signify one's preparedness to man the barricades against the Soviet hordes is good or bad. Even if one does have to pay for it.
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Campaign/commemorative medals should be for going to war, into places where there is at least a realistic prospect of being shot by the opposition. In my local Tesco in November there was an AEOp (sod this WSOp crap) with 5 or 6 campaign medals up flogging poppies - he's been nasty places more often that I did. I am quite happy not to have a cold war warrior medal, I am happy to concede that he, when push came to shove, put his nuts on the line more often than I did. You know what - he's earned his 'bling' more than I did. Odd idea, but you get medals for putting your nutsack on the anvil - why cheapen it (like some countries do) by handing out medals for doing sod all?
I have two medals, one for keeping out of trouble (and, to be honest, I only just managed that) and one for going to war... I would not feel any better about myself if I had 20 more medals to commemorate coming first in the flower show etc.
I have two medals, one for keeping out of trouble (and, to be honest, I only just managed that) and one for going to war... I would not feel any better about myself if I had 20 more medals to commemorate coming first in the flower show etc.
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... an Indonesian version
A few years ago a met a very pleasant retired Indonesian Air Force pilot who claimed to be a Mig 17 and Mig 19 pilot who would occassionally drop by my office for a coffee looking for business opportunities and even brought photos of himself with the Migs. It was fascinating to talk to this guy as Indonesian pilots in those days were trained in Russia and Czechoslovakia
By coincidence I purchased a used B200 King Air from a government organisation which was run by a retired Marsekal Muda (Air Vice Marshall) , when I brought the 'mig pilot' up in conversation he knew this guy very well and he belly laughed, the facts were that the chap concerned had served in the same TU-16 sqaudron as the AVM and was a very competent TU-16 bomber pilot (impressive enough) but had never flown Mig17s or 19s and he was held back in his career (retired as a major) as he was a well known serial bullsh***er. He had trained in the eastern block and flown mig 15s but was selected for bombers.
I have another company that buys surplus from the Indonesian Air Force and this guy had nearly scored a part time job as a door opener on projects with the air force but since he wasn't straight with me, I now have a very attractive lady PR person doing the job. It's a real pity as the 'mig pilot' is in his early 70s and has no income other than his modest pension. When I tried to get him to tell his real story he just disappeared , sad really , the TU-16 was a damn impressive aircraft for it's day and I would have found the truth a lot more fascinating than fiction.
By coincidence I purchased a used B200 King Air from a government organisation which was run by a retired Marsekal Muda (Air Vice Marshall) , when I brought the 'mig pilot' up in conversation he knew this guy very well and he belly laughed, the facts were that the chap concerned had served in the same TU-16 sqaudron as the AVM and was a very competent TU-16 bomber pilot (impressive enough) but had never flown Mig17s or 19s and he was held back in his career (retired as a major) as he was a well known serial bullsh***er. He had trained in the eastern block and flown mig 15s but was selected for bombers.
I have another company that buys surplus from the Indonesian Air Force and this guy had nearly scored a part time job as a door opener on projects with the air force but since he wasn't straight with me, I now have a very attractive lady PR person doing the job. It's a real pity as the 'mig pilot' is in his early 70s and has no income other than his modest pension. When I tried to get him to tell his real story he just disappeared , sad really , the TU-16 was a damn impressive aircraft for it's day and I would have found the truth a lot more fascinating than fiction.
A commemorative medal was issued on the instructions of Queen Victoria to those who participated in the Battle - forty three years (43) after the event.
I'm a cold-war warrior too and I certainly dont have any desire to have a medal for it! My own single GSM looks pretty insignificant compared to the chestful wore by some guys (and girls) now but I dont see the need to have any retrospective ones to make up the balance.