Falklands Airbridge
Just to back up Datas superb points, I was on the same flight as him (no idea who he/she is though) and would support all his points.
It was a bloody farce listening to the reason for our late departure being the loss of a flight plan, and the updates about how it had been lost then found. Particularly so when a lot of fairly senior staff were on the plan (including CBFSAI) - what sort of image does this present of the RAF to a senior tri-service audience?
The landing at ASI - I'm not a pilot, but it was probably the roughest landing I've ever seen, in and out of an Operational theatre - if there's a reason for it, it would be great if the pros here could explain why in laymans terms?
As for the seating - there was a clear tannoy at MPA saying "you'll keep your seats at ASI" - at ASI it was every person for themselves - total chaos and a lot of hacked off, very tired people dealing with the failure of communication at some point in the chain.
This isn't a grip at individuals, but corporately it shows the RAF in a less than professional way, and that was unfortunate and easily avoidable.
It was a bloody farce listening to the reason for our late departure being the loss of a flight plan, and the updates about how it had been lost then found. Particularly so when a lot of fairly senior staff were on the plan (including CBFSAI) - what sort of image does this present of the RAF to a senior tri-service audience?
The landing at ASI - I'm not a pilot, but it was probably the roughest landing I've ever seen, in and out of an Operational theatre - if there's a reason for it, it would be great if the pros here could explain why in laymans terms?
As for the seating - there was a clear tannoy at MPA saying "you'll keep your seats at ASI" - at ASI it was every person for themselves - total chaos and a lot of hacked off, very tired people dealing with the failure of communication at some point in the chain.
This isn't a grip at individuals, but corporately it shows the RAF in a less than professional way, and that was unfortunate and easily avoidable.
Assuming you consider the VC10 to be 'an airliner', I've landed them several times at ASI and it isn't difficult. In fact it's really dead easy as the wind is always predictable and the cloudbase is usually benign. Day or night.
But I've also suffered controlled crashes, followed by very firm braking to take the wrong exit of the high-speed turn off at the hands of DeathStar drivers. On one occasion I was perched in the jump seat and all seemed to be going fine until the AP was disengaged, then it was all audio alarms and frantic arm wrestling, followed by an almighty thump. "Almost impossible to predict where you're going to touch down in one of these", was the comment.....
One hopes that CBSFAI will 'ask' his blue-suit chums why such an utter goat is at large on the Malvinas shuttle these days....
But I've also suffered controlled crashes, followed by very firm braking to take the wrong exit of the high-speed turn off at the hands of DeathStar drivers. On one occasion I was perched in the jump seat and all seemed to be going fine until the AP was disengaged, then it was all audio alarms and frantic arm wrestling, followed by an almighty thump. "Almost impossible to predict where you're going to touch down in one of these", was the comment.....
One hopes that CBSFAI will 'ask' his blue-suit chums why such an utter goat is at large on the Malvinas shuttle these days....
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BEags,
The TriMotor is NOT an easy a/c to land smoothly 100% of the time. The undercarriage config doesn't help, which I think is different on the VC10.
As arty says, don't comment on what you don't know. It makes you look stupid.
The TriMotor is NOT an easy a/c to land smoothly 100% of the time. The undercarriage config doesn't help, which I think is different on the VC10.
As arty says, don't comment on what you don't know. It makes you look stupid.
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going fine until the AP was disengaged, then it was all audio alarms and frantic arm wrestling,
I'm intrigued that the TriShaw should be such a handful to land... Others have said it takes practice, but the general opinion seems contrary to that - although back when I often travelled in a TriStar on holiday, landings were never of the ASI bone-jarring type. Perhaps the charter holiday people flew a different variant?
Thanks for the insults, your rude so-and-sos. Quite unnecessary.
In an epic article in 'Coastal Clues', George Morris once described the activity of a TriShaw crew in the descent as 'rather like a Buddhist prayer meeting - lots of chanting and gongs'...
Anyway, I hope that the Malvinas shuttle is soon sorted out.
Thanks for the insults, your rude so-and-sos. Quite unnecessary.
In an epic article in 'Coastal Clues', George Morris once described the activity of a TriShaw crew in the descent as 'rather like a Buddhist prayer meeting - lots of chanting and gongs'...
Anyway, I hope that the Malvinas shuttle is soon sorted out.
Thanks for the explanation!
George's comment came in the early days of 'CRM' and against a background of Nimrod flying. All the 'call-outs', height alerters and other audio were new to him - hence the amusing simile.
Nothing against the TriShaw or its crews. In fact I once went into bat for one crew at MPA - 'inexpert' observers had said that a TriStar had flown an unstable approach onto the easterly ("I thought it was going to crash....
") and some Wg Cdr wanted to hold an enquiry.... Wading through the tape transcripts etc, apart from getting low on the GS after rather a rushed feed in, nothing seemed particularly unusual - and we all know how tricky the wind was at MPA, so a twitch on late final was hardly surprising. Anyway, I persuaded the fellow that there wasn't anything to investigate - apart, perhaps from the less than perfect radar feed in (which was surprising as MPA ATC was normally excellent). So he got back into his box and that was the end of it.
George's comment came in the early days of 'CRM' and against a background of Nimrod flying. All the 'call-outs', height alerters and other audio were new to him - hence the amusing simile.
Nothing against the TriShaw or its crews. In fact I once went into bat for one crew at MPA - 'inexpert' observers had said that a TriStar had flown an unstable approach onto the easterly ("I thought it was going to crash....
") and some Wg Cdr wanted to hold an enquiry.... Wading through the tape transcripts etc, apart from getting low on the GS after rather a rushed feed in, nothing seemed particularly unusual - and we all know how tricky the wind was at MPA, so a twitch on late final was hardly surprising. Anyway, I persuaded the fellow that there wasn't anything to investigate - apart, perhaps from the less than perfect radar feed in (which was surprising as MPA ATC was normally excellent). So he got back into his box and that was the end of it.
Speaking personaly Beagle,
It was just a bit of banter
, no offence intended.
Personaly, I'd rather have a firmer than usual touchdown (big jets should always be landed in a no-nonsense manner) before the ASI hump, than be desperately searching for the tarmac on the downslope after the hump. Arse twitching like a rabbit's nose springs to mind!
PS, Brit Bus Driver, all sounds horribly familiar!! Just to be a technical pedant, the nose up trim is wound on below 1500' in Autoland only, hence not at ASI. I'll get my coat.
It was just a bit of banter
, no offence intended.Personaly, I'd rather have a firmer than usual touchdown (big jets should always be landed in a no-nonsense manner) before the ASI hump, than be desperately searching for the tarmac on the downslope after the hump. Arse twitching like a rabbit's nose springs to mind!
PS, Brit Bus Driver, all sounds horribly familiar!! Just to be a technical pedant, the nose up trim is wound on below 1500' in Autoland only, hence not at ASI. I'll get my coat.
Producing greasers in the VC10 is made easier by the ground cushion effect. Landing a B767-300 with it's underslung engines smoothly is relatively easy compared to the B757, which has the biggest ground clearance of any Boeing ever made.
Back to the thread and I would echo all of Datalynx and Jimlads points - the seating arrangements are just terrible, there is no reason not to allocate and retain seats for the whole journey and the decision to go for the freeforall approach seems to have been done purely for the convenience of the movers.
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Thanks Arty...I thought that at the time of writing (hence the 1500R reference) but couldn't remember the exact parameters. These days I prefer an aircraft that auto-trims throughout the entire envelope!
Go easy on the new boss
Go easy on the new boss
Data-Lynx
Thread drift: - Brings back memories but at long last ( since '83 if you must know) I now know what that bridge was doing in the middle of nowhere...( Bodie-Creek bridge). I recall just a little disbelief on Phandet at my suspension bridge story until I was able to produce the Strike camera piccys ( which are at the bottom of a box in the loft at the moment).....
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The ASI Hump
Nomorefree and Farfrompuken set me looking for a bit more detail on ASI. The Typhoon stream to MPA report included:
PS. My log book has one night landing at ASI - vertically onto floodlit concrete in Apr 82 and is therefore irrelevant.
Normally, a night landing is nothing to get excited about, but Ascension is unique in several regards. Firstly, there is no diversion airfield within a thousand miles, so ac are required to carry 60 minutes’ holding fuel, which means landing at an high fuel weight. This is exacerbated by the slope on the runway, which is uphill for the first 2000ft and generates an unpleasant visual illusion, which can result in firm landings for the unaware. The runway then has a pronounced hump, followed by a steep downhill slope – far from ideal when landing at a heavy weight, and making a blessing of Typhoon’s excellent braking system. The final complication was 2 steep-sided hills on either side of the runway, with a ¼ mile stagger between them. The hills generate some interesting local wind effects that require the pilot to be very alive to last minute direction changes
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Wiggy, you mean this one?
http://i45.tinypic.com/34yqq2u.jpg
Looks very impressive especially with no sense of scale!!
J_J
http://i45.tinypic.com/34yqq2u.jpg
Looks very impressive especially with no sense of scale!!
J_J
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I know nothing about landing "big jets" or little jets like Typhoon but seem to remember that the last time I landed at Asi, in a C130J, it wasn't that difficult.
Point at the piano keys, and, er, plonk it on.
I will defer to the golden handed sky gods of CFS, but closing one eye, sticking tongue out of corner of mouth and telling co, that looks about right (TLAR), seemed to work; certainly landing at ASI is not as demanding as Tarin Kowt with no moon.....
Was trying really hard not to use the phrase " man up and dry your eyes wet pants, Captain"
Load Moving...........
Dummy Run.
Point at the piano keys, and, er, plonk it on.
I will defer to the golden handed sky gods of CFS, but closing one eye, sticking tongue out of corner of mouth and telling co, that looks about right (TLAR), seemed to work; certainly landing at ASI is not as demanding as Tarin Kowt with no moon.....
Was trying really hard not to use the phrase " man up and dry your eyes wet pants, Captain"
Load Moving...........
Dummy Run.
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AFG
Now Dummy, I could ask what you were doing in the high country at night with no lights, but it could be mission creep.
One is Dutch, the other is an Aussie and both are aircrew.
One is Dutch, the other is an Aussie and both are aircrew.