More Tristar problems?
Google earth Victorville Airport, San Bernadino. A bloke in the pub tells me these ones are being closely looked at. The rumour of more Tristars seems to be gathering pace. Gate, Horse, Bolt?
Join Date: May 2003
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In my world it's not negligent to fcuk up, but it IS negligent not to tell the affected party.
Maybe I'm too honest for my own good, but I find it easier to tell the truth and suffer for my art than live with the consequences of lying.
It's called INTEGRITY, and I see almost none these days as people from our much-esteemed government through our lords and masters down to the lowliest benefit claimant try to lie their way out of situations they've created.
I wish people would just manthefcukup. It's not going to change the result of the negligence but, by accepting the consequences of their actions, it might encourage each and every one of them to think twice before doing something rash.
Maybe I'm too honest for my own good, but I find it easier to tell the truth and suffer for my art than live with the consequences of lying.
It's called INTEGRITY, and I see almost none these days as people from our much-esteemed government through our lords and masters down to the lowliest benefit claimant try to lie their way out of situations they've created.
I wish people would just manthefcukup. It's not going to change the result of the negligence but, by accepting the consequences of their actions, it might encourage each and every one of them to think twice before doing something rash.
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Two pennyworth
I'm just throwing my two pennyworth in here regarding movers, steps, static objects ie Tri*..
I had the good fortune to work with the movers at the Deid a couple of years ago as there was no SAMO in place at the time and my role meant extremely close daily liaison with all of the movers on the pan and in regards to planning etc
I have to say that my opinion of the movements branch was changed forever having worked on a daily basis with them and seeing at first hand the pressures they were under to ensure the success of the airbridge to both operational theatres. I did witness a few errors and mistakes but with such long hours, high temps and ever changeable programme to keep up with, they all did a sterling job to ensure that as many people as possible got home on time.
I don't understand why the incident occurred in AKT but I do want to say that the movers don't always deserve the bad press they receive in this forum.
I say 'hats off to you movers' and I for one, will always remember those 4 months of 18 hr shifts and have the greatest admiration for those I worked with.
Standing by......
I had the good fortune to work with the movers at the Deid a couple of years ago as there was no SAMO in place at the time and my role meant extremely close daily liaison with all of the movers on the pan and in regards to planning etc
I have to say that my opinion of the movements branch was changed forever having worked on a daily basis with them and seeing at first hand the pressures they were under to ensure the success of the airbridge to both operational theatres. I did witness a few errors and mistakes but with such long hours, high temps and ever changeable programme to keep up with, they all did a sterling job to ensure that as many people as possible got home on time.
I don't understand why the incident occurred in AKT but I do want to say that the movers don't always deserve the bad press they receive in this forum.
I say 'hats off to you movers' and I for one, will always remember those 4 months of 18 hr shifts and have the greatest admiration for those I worked with.
Standing by......
Join Date: Mar 2000
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In my 5000+ hours on the VC10, no-one ever drove anything into the aeroplane.
Why, you may ask?
Especially in ad-hoc charter service, which I do exclusively now, we carry at least two ground engineers with as everywhere, and either the Flight Engineer and/or ground engineers, while the airplane is parked, keep a close eye out for ground movement of vehicles, hi-loaders, boarding stairs, tugs, etc.
Also, when entering a ramp area, especially at remote African locations where it even slightly appears that the maneuvering area might be compromised, ground engineers are placed at opened doors left and right, to be sure that proper clearances are maintained.
In addition, after baggage loading is completed, and prior to doors being closed, ground engineers check carefully around the aircraft, prior to their boarding, and remaining doors closed.
Why these procedures?
Because, if the airplane goes unserviceable for long periods, we don't get paid.
IF the financial incentive is large enough, ground accidents can be prevented.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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opsman38,
Thanks for your kind words. I for one have always been somebody who doesn't feel the need to bad mouth others off on a public forum. It seems that people of certain trades feel the need to be able to be little or slag us off regardless of what we do, but I can live with that and get on with my job as professionally as the next man.
As we are all under extreme pressure to produce more with less, perhaps those who feel the need to slag the movers off will come and spend a day with us in theatre. There opinion might be changed to. Unfortunalty one bad mover or a bad experience tars us all with the same brush.
MM
Thanks for your kind words. I for one have always been somebody who doesn't feel the need to bad mouth others off on a public forum. It seems that people of certain trades feel the need to be able to be little or slag us off regardless of what we do, but I can live with that and get on with my job as professionally as the next man.
As we are all under extreme pressure to produce more with less, perhaps those who feel the need to slag the movers off will come and spend a day with us in theatre. There opinion might be changed to. Unfortunalty one bad mover or a bad experience tars us all with the same brush.
MM
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Of course Tristar crews don't jump out in front of the baggage trucks at BZZ and demand that the movers give them their luggage, before the KDH R&R pax or the Staff officer on board - do they?
I understand that our new super air-lifter is flying about with extra seats and stewards/spare ALM's?
I understand that our new super air-lifter is flying about with extra seats and stewards/spare ALM's?
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Arrgh poor little mover/baggage handler person doesn't like the nasty bully boys shouting at him. Boo Hoo, dry your eyes Princess, man up and get those bags loaded, you don't want to delay the Tristar now.
COCK
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Everyone makes mistakes, flightcrew, engineers, movers, that's part of being human. I feel certain the guy feels terrible about what happened. It's a shame he didn't feel able to point out his mistake, a major part of flight safety culture is trying to make people feel comfortable with admitting errors.
Join Date: Jul 2006
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411A
Good post.
Since the RAF's fudamental problem, as exhibited in this thread, is that the tasks are too many for the resources and adequate funding is not forthcoming, isn't it about time that some civilian practices were studied, and maybe adopted, when handing aircraft on the ground?
411A's points are well made and when you think on to ground handling. A diverse collection of civvy handling companies, other airlines and airports in the UK alone, handle a significant number of varying a/c type movements every day without major incidents, with minimum staff levels, performance targets, sometimes impossible schedules, equipment of variable status and all for minimal profit margins. I'm not saying that it's a better system but maybe worth a look at.
After all, there is always room to learn in aviation as that helps to stop a/c crashing and handlers crashing into a/c.
pontification over.......
Just a thought.....
Since the RAF's fudamental problem, as exhibited in this thread, is that the tasks are too many for the resources and adequate funding is not forthcoming, isn't it about time that some civilian practices were studied, and maybe adopted, when handing aircraft on the ground?
411A's points are well made and when you think on to ground handling. A diverse collection of civvy handling companies, other airlines and airports in the UK alone, handle a significant number of varying a/c type movements every day without major incidents, with minimum staff levels, performance targets, sometimes impossible schedules, equipment of variable status and all for minimal profit margins. I'm not saying that it's a better system but maybe worth a look at.
After all, there is always room to learn in aviation as that helps to stop a/c crashing and handlers crashing into a/c.
pontification over.......
Just a thought.....
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Now then, how about expanding the SERCO movements workforce at the Oxfordshire 'superbase'? In essence when the fleets settle down, all the strategic side of the house (A330) could be totally handled by civvies at Brize with regard to pax/bags & frt. The tactical 130/400's would become the core trade for the service movers. The pax terminal and Cargo/plt build centre can also operate in a civilian manner. SERCO movers are already gaining training in CAA DG operations and service logistics managements IT sytems. SERCO movers are also engaged on building explosive pallets in the 'dump', loading/restraining flat floor loads into C17's and effecting role changes etc.
Does the RAF really need to have a WO/DAMO on (c40K?) with all their management experience meeting and departing every acft? Civvies do this with guys and gals with a months training at LHR etc - dispatchers. What is the difference in jobs?
The movements trade does a sterling job, but also a diverse one to the point that their training is so broad that they cannot keep current with their skill sets. Brize SERCO 'movers' recieve 3 days training and then join a traffic or cargo team, this is very similar to trg times at civvy airport for ramp operatives.
Accidents still happen at the civvy airports, however with airlines being run from a commercial standpoint the operation doesnt 'slip' that often, it simply can't. The RAF however will sit and wait waiting for elusive bespoke spares to be traced and shipped worlwide. You get the idea..........
Does the RAF really need to have a WO/DAMO on (c40K?) with all their management experience meeting and departing every acft? Civvies do this with guys and gals with a months training at LHR etc - dispatchers. What is the difference in jobs?
The movements trade does a sterling job, but also a diverse one to the point that their training is so broad that they cannot keep current with their skill sets. Brize SERCO 'movers' recieve 3 days training and then join a traffic or cargo team, this is very similar to trg times at civvy airport for ramp operatives.
Accidents still happen at the civvy airports, however with airlines being run from a commercial standpoint the operation doesnt 'slip' that often, it simply can't. The RAF however will sit and wait waiting for elusive bespoke spares to be traced and shipped worlwide. You get the idea..........
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I would like to point out the "Professional attitude" shown by the aircrew of said T* as they proceeded to form a circle around the mover in question and have a very nice and pleasant conversation outside the camp gates 
which involved fingers in chests. Real professionals...
which involved fingers in chests. Real professionals...
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Originally Posted by BEagle
In my 5000+ hours on the VC10, no-one ever drove anything into the aeroplane....
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I would like to point out the "Professional attitude" shown by the aircrew of said T* as they proceeded to form a circle around the mover in question and have a very nice and pleasant conversation outside the camp gates which involved fingers in chests. Real professionals...
IF, as was reported he was seen laughing about it in the Step Inn he is a bigger fool than we all give him credit for.
He should have taken a low profile and stayed out of the way.
The 216 Crews are the ones who will get the blame for the Tristar not flying NOT the movers.
Reminds me of one route on the way back from Basra.. We picked up a comp A and he was delivered to Lossiemouth from Akt.
The passengers had been at AKT overnight, when it was known they were going via Lossie 2 SAC's asked if they could get off at Lossie..
true to form the Movers said no....so said SAC's went back to Brize to get a bus to Heathrow, fly to Aberdeen then Bus to Lossie..
Who got the blame? 216 of course, On the ground at Lossie we had hot brakes and plenty of time to find and offload the SAC bags but again the movers would not provide the trepple...
ho Hum
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Trepel to offload 2 bags ..........Ho Hum.
ps....a little bird tells me that a certain herc det drove a kva away from a herc the other day, only problem was that it was still connected....
ps....a little bird tells me that a certain herc det drove a kva away from a herc the other day, only problem was that it was still connected....