A400M engine - hey, it works!

[Jig Peter]

Challenge ...

The wise BEagle is right - the control thing ("single-lever" ??? Oh migaaahd !!!) is certainly a problem/challenge/stumbling block which is clearly making the whole A400M project miss milestone after milestone. I only hope that the latest team to get at the software problem manages to sort the thing out, otherwise ...
On another track - what kind of e.s.h.p. does P&W's Geared Turbofan develop at the gearbox output? It looks like a half-way house to the Big Turboprop, which if the A400M were offered at a later date for USAF use, could become the core of a fully-fledged turboprop*, and an acceptable "indigenous" power unit if the US military liked the aircraft but needed a home-grown donk ...
Just letting a wandering mind gather its hayseeds ...

*like the P&W Canada proposal which Airbus didn't select, but the work could have been useful in PW's move towards the GTF ...

PS Sorry if all this is somewhat off thread ...

[gar170]

l

26 June 2008
First A400M military transporter rolled out
Airbus Military has today rolled out the first complete A400M military transport aircraft from the Final Assembly Line at the EADS Military Transport Aircraft Division (MTAD) facility in Seville, Spain.
Presented to the customers, the world’s press and presided over by His Majesty Juan-Carlos I, King of Spain, the new aircraft heralds a new era in military airlift capability.
Designed to a recognised requirement for a new airlifter for European air forces, the A400M incorporates state-of-the-art materials and technology that are being continuously perfected in today’s civil aircraft fleets. Features such as electronic flight controls, carbon composite structures and an automated handling system will bring new standards of operability and safety to military aircrews.
Launched under a single contract in 2003 with 180 orders for seven European launch customers, the A400M represents the most ambitious military procurement programme ever undertaken in Europe. The launch customer nations, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Germany, Spain, Turkey and the United Kingdom were subsequently joined by Malaysia and the Republic of South Africa, which recognised the potential of the new airlifter for their own requirements and brought the total number of commitments to 192.
"Today is a great day for our industry," said Carlos Suarez, CEO of Airbus Military and Head of MTAD: "This is the result of the combined effort and determination of those that have been involved in this programme. It has been supported by the national governments - our customers, the industrial partners, the suppliers, and all the employees who have worked to produce the aircraft. I would like to thank and congratulate them all."
The overall contract, worth some 20 billion Euros was signed with a single interface between Airbus Military and OCCAR, (Organisation Conjointe de Cooperation en matière d’ARmement), the contractual body representing all seven European customer nations.
"It is our joint determination to show that EADS can design and manufacture a long-range transport aircraft which will set new standards in the military airlift world and on the international markets", said Louis Gallois, CEO of EADS
Versatility is the characteristic that best describes the A400M, it being conceived with both tactical and strategic capability. With a payload of up to 37 tonnes over ranges of up to 4700 nm, the A400M is designed to carry all loads and vehicles in the European Staff Requirement (ESR) inventory, serve as an aerial delivery platform and act as an in-flight refueller for both fast jets and helicopters.
Important challenges are still ahead, like the engine first flight on the FTB within the engine flight test programme or the MSN001 first flight.
The A400M is the first truly new military transport aircraft of its category designed in over 30 years, with twice the capacity and twice the payload of the current aircraft types that it will replace. It is all set to become the new standard in military airlift.

[GreenKnight121]

Gar170... old news. We already knew all that.

That was 2 months ago, that they "rolled out a completed aircraft"... complete with engines that STILL haven't been run-up in flight... not on the C-130 test-bed and certainly not on the PR-display they rolled out with such fan-fare.

And it looks likely that that PR display model will continue gathering dust "well into '09"... more than half a year after the so-called "first complete aircraft" was shown off.

Not due to "scheduled testing", though I expect that statement from the PR word-twisters any day now, but due to not getting the engine controls sorted out.

And what if, as does sometimes still happen in this day of "computer simulations are better than test flights", they find that something (airflow wakes/turbulence due to prop design, engine intake airflow at speed, etc) isn't like they thought it would be, and they have to modify something?


I think their great fanfare event was well premature.

[KiloB]

Interesting that on this A/C the stabiliser has considerably more sweep-back than the wing. Why would that be? (Other than looking modern / sexy)

[twochai]

Interesting that on this A/C the stabiliser has considerably more sweep-back than the wing. Why would that be? (Other than looking modern / sexy)

Because the incremental moment arm of a swept tailplane reduces the total surface area required?

[Charles Rolls]

Right chaps, time to wind up some of this unmitigated merde wafting up in here. I don't want to give the game away entirely, but the more capable amongst you may note that a chap with a name like mine might have an affinity for flying ladies on the front of cars.

I have it on good authority that those clever whirly-blade-loud-noise types are working day and night on this FADEC stuff down in Toulouse. I've been told that there has been an issue with, and pardon my technical lingo, the (C)hannel (H)ealth (E)stimation and (E)rror (S)ystem (E)xpansion stream. Apparently it hasn't quite been going to plan. In fact, even the bloody (LO)gic (N)odal (G)rid (L)ook(U)p and (N)on-functional (C)hannel (H)ybrid system hasn't really been coming up to scratch either.

One might say it's those bloody French types again, but I digress...

The word from Toulouse is that 'our Germans are better than their Germans' and that the (W)ide (I)ntegratio(N) (E)xperts are hard at work on getting the project back on track.

So, all in all, the chaps in Toulouse are working up the CHEESE and LONG LUNCH case, with progress bounding forward under the influence of WINE.

Pip pip

[Porrohman]

From Defense News on 4th September;

On Europe's stalled A400M airlifter program, [Air Marshal Sir Barry Thornton, the Ministry of Defence's Chief of Material (Air)] said the British were looking at ways to plug the capability gap if the aircraft was delayed beyond its current delivery date of 2011.
Extending the life of its C-130K fleet, leasing aircraft or chartering capacity were three possible options, he said.
The Airbus airlifter development program has been dogged by problems with the Europrop International-developed TP400-D6 turboprop. An engine fitted to a C-130 test-bed aircraft modified by Marshall Aerospace in the U.K. has yet to fly even though the A400M itself has been rolled out.
Thornton said the C-130 was expected to fly in October. One industry executive said he thought that was optimistic.

Full article here; RAF Details Purchase Plans - Defense News

[LowObservable]

Probably the only encouraging aspect of the A400M program is that every other military airlifter since the C-141 turned out to be more difficult than expected. The C-5 needed a new wing. The AMST was trashcanned because nobody had realized that slow, straight-wing jets were horribly inefficient in the cruise. The C-17 was late and over-cost and was an inch from cancellation before McD got its act together and leaned out the production line.

My guess is that the A400M will turn out like the C-17 - all right, eventually.

[Jig Peter]

Competition ahead ?

Saw a report recently that Lockheed-Martin is "looking at" giving the C130 a fuselage wide enough for the newer military vehicles ...
If P&W did a propeller version of the Geared Turbo Fan and that went on the "C-130 Wide", the A400M's FADEC difficulties could mean that the its Unique Selling Point will no longer be "Unique" ...
I suppose that it all depends on whether the FADEC can be untangled before the end of the year*, and how far along L-M is with their "Fat Herc" look-see ... But time is getting very, very short, and the alligators are (perhaps) beginning to stir for the very promising but so far disappointing project that is the A400M and its super-powerful, single-lever-controlled mighty turboprop...

* and whatever oddities crop up in the engine's flight trials and the A400M's testing too .

[mary_hinge]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...o-october.html

"But persistent poor weather conditions in the UK could still affect this objective, and potentially mean that the A400M will remain on the ground until late next month or early November, says another industry source."

[mick2088]

Whatever came over those folks at Europrop/Airbus. Test an engine that requires good, clear sunny weather to be able to be flown and choose Britain.

[Jumping_Jack]

"Fat Herc".....A Belfast then?

[Tricorn]

"Fat Herc".....A Belfast then?

Excellent............

[Madbob]

Marshalls should fly Snoopy out on three engines at light weight (perferctly possible IMHO) and land at Boscombe, they have a long long runway, add some fuel and go south to somewhere warm and sunny! Spain perhaps?? If Cambridge is too short they can always use JATO for help getting airborne!

Doesn't anyone realise that there's a war on and the K's have got NO FI left? Time is of the essence......so pull out ALL the stops, please.

MB

[time expired]

It seems to me when one makes comparisons with the
Belfast and other heavy lifters, that had the RAF got
them 40 years ago,and if a sufficient number had been
aquired,say 70+ they would have still be flying today.
They would have course have vastly uprated engines
probably external fuel tanks a la Hercs,and who knows
maybe they would have been exported to foreign air
forces,stranger things have happened.Also we would
have saved a huge amount of money and maybe,
because we still had the expertise,developed a follow
up model and been one of the leaders in the heavy-lift
field.
Just another missed chance thanks to our politcal
masters.
Regards

[RS30]

I see a Belfast is still operational. I wonder whether it could be the alternate engine test bed airframe?

The lack of information on engine progress is raising some justified questions on the validity of this whole program. Considering that first flight was promised for 2008 and the first crew training courses were slated to start next year it is getting beyond a joke. As I said before, it would be laughable, if our deployed forces were not on the end of a tenuous airbridge on which the A400M is supposed to be operating in a couple of years.

Is there a plan B?

Photos: Short SC-5 Belfast C1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

[mary_hinge]

A400M gets a boost, as TP400 engine hits full power

A400M gets a boost, as TP400 engine hits full power

"Originally scheduled to make its flight debut early last year, the C-130 testbed will conduct vital risk reduction work ahead of the A400M's debut sortie using four of the 11,000shp (8,200kW) TP400 engines (above). The latter milestone is expected to happen around late October or early November, according to industry sources."

So, 50 Test Flight hours needed on the C130 test bed, which has yet to fly, by early November.

Err Good Luck I guess!

[Porrohman]

Testbed Problems Add To A400M Delay

Latest from AINonline;

.....unanticipated problems integrating the 11,000-shp powerplant on the C-130 have further delayed the A400M program.

AIN understands that the problems have included vibration in the fuselage from the eight-blade propellers, and the need to protect the C-130’s rear wing and flap from the much greater heat produced by the TP400.

......In the 14 weeks since the TP400 was first ground-run on the C-130, only six hours have been logged.

.....The testbed is unlikely to fly before mid-November......

Full article is at;
Testbed Problems Add To A400M Delay: AINonline

First flight in November? The article doesn't say which year

[Porrohman]

RS30 asked;

I see a Belfast is still operational. I wonder whether it could be the alternate engine test bed airframe?

As well as the operational Belslow in Oz there's another parked at Southend (G-BEPS) which until recently was being considered for return to service by Heavylift Oz. Photos: Short SC-5 Belfast C1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net I understand that it had been re-wired and had four serviceable engines and three serviceable props fitted. Work then stopped whilst they tried to find another prop. At that time I wondered if it was maybe being considered as a TP400 testbed. Eventually, a fourth prop was located, the aircraft was washed and a team arrived from Oz to bring it back to airworthiness but after several more weeks work the effort was abandoned earlier this year, possibly due to certification issues? I believe it has now been stripped of useful parts and is likely to be scrapped very soon (if it hasn't already been scrapped).

I wonder whether the Belslow would have been a practical testbed for the TP400? It would certainly give the engine a lot more weight and drag to work with. The extra power wouldn't have done the Belslow any harm (assuming it didn't pull the wings off) - might even have turned it into a Belfast, especially if they eventually fitted four of the TP400s

[ORAC]

DefenseNews: EADS May Freeze A400M Production for 7 Countries
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

BERLIN - Aerospace giant EADS has threatened to freeze production of its Airbus subsidiary's flagship military airlifter if clients do not drop penalty clauses for late delivery, a German news report said Sept. 20.

Der Spiegel weekly, trailing its Sept. 22 publication, cited a letter sent by Louis Gallois, the French chief executive of both companies, to the governments of seven countries who have ordered the A400M plane.

In the letter, Gallois is quoted as saying the military carrier is "a heavy lossmaker" that is creating "considerable difficulties" at EADS, weighing down on the group's financial performance.

The "anticipated profits" from 180 orders on Airbus' books have already been "invested," with Gallois adding in the letter that the present position could become "untenable" within months unless a deal is agreed that "keeps everyone happy."

EADS wants clients to waive their contractual right to reductions in their bills due to late delivery, but Der Spiegel said Germany's defense ministry would be "standing firm," and Berlin is of the view that "financial concessions" should only be discussed upon receipt of the planes.

Business daily Financial Times Deutschland also reported this week that Gallois sent a letter pleading for "understanding" on the A400M.

Last week, Gallois said the plane's first flight would take place "before the end of the year," but the French press reported soon afterward that costs had risen astronomically and that the first flight was being put back to 2009.

Germany has ordered 60 A400Ms, making it the biggest customer.

Airbus has been struggling with four important delay announcements having been made since 2006 on delivery of its A380 superjumbo civil airliners.