Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Chugalug,
Many thanks - just what the doctor ordered !
But now all they've got is a single needle 'n ball on the autopilot control panel. At least I can't see any more, can you ? I suppose they didn't fly it unless the autopilot was fitted.
Perhaps some Regulation required (or the Pilot's Union demanded) this.
Btw, what did you have in your Hastings ?
Cheers, Danny.
Many thanks - just what the doctor ordered !
But now all they've got is a single needle 'n ball on the autopilot control panel. At least I can't see any more, can you ? I suppose they didn't fly it unless the autopilot was fitted.
Perhaps some Regulation required (or the Pilot's Union demanded) this.
Btw, what did you have in your Hastings ?
Cheers, Danny.
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Vengeance
Hello Danny,
found it while looking for fathers logbook. I suppose
that he took it, but not sure. He did work in India assembling
the Vengeance. According to his F54? he went to Canada 34SFTS
and then India - Karachi, 301MU, 320MU, 82 SQDN, but I'm
not sure of the accuracy of the form. In one of his stories he mentions
that "we had to improvise in Burma". He mentions changing a Wright Cyclone(Vengeance)
utilising a block & tackle and a large tree. I do know he was a member of the
31 SQDN association (I had to inform them when he died), and held the Burma Star.
Was Imphal considered to be in Burma at the time ?
.
found it while looking for fathers logbook. I suppose
that he took it, but not sure. He did work in India assembling
the Vengeance. According to his F54? he went to Canada 34SFTS
and then India - Karachi, 301MU, 320MU, 82 SQDN, but I'm
not sure of the accuracy of the form. In one of his stories he mentions
that "we had to improvise in Burma". He mentions changing a Wright Cyclone(Vengeance)
utilising a block & tackle and a large tree. I do know he was a member of the
31 SQDN association (I had to inform them when he died), and held the Burma Star.
Was Imphal considered to be in Burma at the time ?
.
Danny:-
My Pilots Notes tell me that it was a Mk9 Autopilot (made by Smiths I think). The Flight Deck presence was in the form of two controllers mounted below the two DV panels, with separate L/R (rotary) and up/down switches. Below the Captain's one was the master switch panel with the three R,A,E, motor switches, the engage button, disengage button, pitch trim indicator. Additionally there were cutout switches on the control wheels. I seem to recall that one's hands were forever ready to tweak the controllers, especially the L/R as it was prone to wander off heading.
The main Gyros were inverter driven and housed in a box behind the captain's seat by the port wall.There were no "auto pilot instruments" on the main instrument panels. I suspect that in the Sperry instrument panels that we have noted, the Artificial Horizon and Directional Gyro doubled as both indicators and gyro platforms for the Sperry Autopilot. Perhaps our learned engineers might comment?
If so both Regulation and Union were conspicuous by their absence when we took delivery of our £1M ($1.5M?) apiece Hercules Mk1's. They were jam packed (hence the bargain basement $ price) with UK electronic nav and radio gear including a Smith's A/P. The latter took one look at the US wiring loom impedances and went into severe sulk mode. The result was that the c/b's were collared off and we hand flew them (for a year?) on the 13/14 hour legs on the Changi Slip. When I say we, once over the Indian Ocean all were welcome to try their hand provided they could keep the a/c reasonably straight and level.
Btw, what did you have in your Hastings ?
The main Gyros were inverter driven and housed in a box behind the captain's seat by the port wall.There were no "auto pilot instruments" on the main instrument panels. I suspect that in the Sperry instrument panels that we have noted, the Artificial Horizon and Directional Gyro doubled as both indicators and gyro platforms for the Sperry Autopilot. Perhaps our learned engineers might comment?
I suppose they didn't fly it unless the autopilot was fitted. Perhaps some Regulation required (or the Pilot's Union demanded) this.
Last edited by Chugalug2; 25th Oct 2015 at 11:23. Reason: Hercules anecdote No.105
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Chugalug,
They seemed to have used all the available nooks and crannies in your cockpit to stow away the component parts of your Smiths autopilot ! (any room for a couple of truck brake drums ?)
But, apart from that unit, did you still have the standard RAF individual pilot's six-instrument "Sperry Panel" on each side ?
It looks as if, in these early two-pilot layouts, that the co-pilot was not really regarded as such, the Captain would do all the flying, he was there just as a dogsbody to do as he was told.
It recalls the tale I was told one night by my American "roomie" in the Calcutta Grand, that as a 25-hour washout from the Air Corps, he'd been recruited by CNAC (that distant forerunner of Cathay Pacific) in that very capacity - and was coining it in at three times my pay - and I was doing all the grafting myself ! There's no Justice (for Willing Horses) !
Danny.
They seemed to have used all the available nooks and crannies in your cockpit to stow away the component parts of your Smiths autopilot ! (any room for a couple of truck brake drums ?)
But, apart from that unit, did you still have the standard RAF individual pilot's six-instrument "Sperry Panel" on each side ?
It looks as if, in these early two-pilot layouts, that the co-pilot was not really regarded as such, the Captain would do all the flying, he was there just as a dogsbody to do as he was told.
It recalls the tale I was told one night by my American "roomie" in the Calcutta Grand, that as a 25-hour washout from the Air Corps, he'd been recruited by CNAC (that distant forerunner of Cathay Pacific) in that very capacity - and was coining it in at three times my pay - and I was doing all the grafting myself ! There's no Justice (for Willing Horses) !
Danny.
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esa-aardvark,
Not sure whether, in your Dad's (and my) day, Imphal was in Burma or part of the North-East Province of British India. Not that it mattered, either way it was ruled from London.
Anything East of Calcutta was "Burma" as far as we were concerned. Yes, engine changes were frequent in the early months of our Vengeance experience. The sympton was a rapid rise in oil consumtion: anything in excess of 4 galls/hr condemned the engine.
"Facilities" for a change might just be a tree (and you had to make sure the branch you were using would carry a ton) and block 'n tackle. And it might be pouring with rain while you were doing it. And there might be poisonous snakes and God knows what lurking about in the grass.
Later when more VVs were available, the whole aircraft was simply struck-off and you drew another one from stores.
Danny.
Not sure whether, in your Dad's (and my) day, Imphal was in Burma or part of the North-East Province of British India. Not that it mattered, either way it was ruled from London.
Anything East of Calcutta was "Burma" as far as we were concerned. Yes, engine changes were frequent in the early months of our Vengeance experience. The sympton was a rapid rise in oil consumtion: anything in excess of 4 galls/hr condemned the engine.
"Facilities" for a change might just be a tree (and you had to make sure the branch you were using would carry a ton) and block 'n tackle. And it might be pouring with rain while you were doing it. And there might be poisonous snakes and God knows what lurking about in the grass.
Later when more VVs were available, the whole aircraft was simply struck-off and you drew another one from stores.
Danny.
Danny, herewith the glorious, the superb, everyone's favourite aircraft (well nearly, well some, well mine! ;-) The Handley Page Hastings Flight Deck in all its majesty:-
The blue buckets are obviously a mod introduced since my time. The purpose of the left hand one would seem to be to drain off the alcohol from the P10 compass, no doubt for when the sun passed over the yard arm. The right hand one presumably replaced the left hand one when it was full.
Not only was the Hastings fully operative from the RHS, but co-pilots were trained as P1's at the OCU. I think I have mentioned before how co-pilot solo (with an oppo in the LHS to pull up the gear and set flap etc) drew wary crowds to watch the proceedings from a safe distance of such arrivals.
Sir will notice the full leather seating in a distinguished green colouring. The apparent wear merely adds to its character, don't you think?
The blue buckets are obviously a mod introduced since my time. The purpose of the left hand one would seem to be to drain off the alcohol from the P10 compass, no doubt for when the sun passed over the yard arm. The right hand one presumably replaced the left hand one when it was full.
Not only was the Hastings fully operative from the RHS, but co-pilots were trained as P1's at the OCU. I think I have mentioned before how co-pilot solo (with an oppo in the LHS to pull up the gear and set flap etc) drew wary crowds to watch the proceedings from a safe distance of such arrivals.
Sir will notice the full leather seating in a distinguished green colouring. The apparent wear merely adds to its character, don't you think?
Hastings
Slight thread drift, but any mention of Hastings brings bile to the throat of anyone who worked on Flight Watch (sorry guys but we loathed IRS flights).
We had four channels in Muharraq, one of which was never used, changed frequency at 0200hrs and changed back at 0600hrs if memory serves. Needless to say it was rarely done but if IRS was around you could guarantee that there would be a call on the dot of 0600hrs reporting no contact for 4 hours.
Yeah, we LOVED them !!
Probably the only aircraft at that time that could stay around long enough to be a pest (this was 1967-68).
The main frequency in use enabled us (if needed) to work flights from UK to Gan and sometimes beyond so who gave a toss about an unused channel (IRS that's who !!).
No criticism intended of those that actually flew them.
We had four channels in Muharraq, one of which was never used, changed frequency at 0200hrs and changed back at 0600hrs if memory serves. Needless to say it was rarely done but if IRS was around you could guarantee that there would be a call on the dot of 0600hrs reporting no contact for 4 hours.
Yeah, we LOVED them !!
Probably the only aircraft at that time that could stay around long enough to be a pest (this was 1967-68).
The main frequency in use enabled us (if needed) to work flights from UK to Gan and sometimes beyond so who gave a toss about an unused channel (IRS that's who !!).
No criticism intended of those that actually flew them.
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Sperry autopilot
Chugalug – ref your #7564, the Sperry autopilot's AH and DG provided attitude and heading input to the control servos, as was proved to me one day when I unthinkingly caged its AH while in use in an attempt to correct what I thought was an erroneous indication. The horizon bar customarily waved about a bit before finally locking into a straight & level attitude, and so ensued a rather wild sequence of strange manoeuvres (and associated passenger discomfort) before I managed a hasty disengagement – another lesson learned the hard way!
The picture of a Hastings panel on your #7567 is somewhat intriguing, and also slightly mystifying. On the captain's side the turn & slip, altimeter and VSI all appear to have changed places as compared to what I recall , while on the extreme right the co-pilot seems to have acquired a needle & ball additional to his other instruments. As for Hastings autopilots, in my view they were markedly inferior to the Sperry, especially the WW2 surplus junk fitted to the Mk1.
As for the presence of a slip indicator on the Sperry, I have no recollection of that and this is backed up by a picture of the BBMF Dak on pages 80/81 of the DC3 Haynes Manual – perhaps it was fitted only on the early marks, and disappeared later?
The picture of a Hastings panel on your #7567 is somewhat intriguing, and also slightly mystifying. On the captain's side the turn & slip, altimeter and VSI all appear to have changed places as compared to what I recall , while on the extreme right the co-pilot seems to have acquired a needle & ball additional to his other instruments. As for Hastings autopilots, in my view they were markedly inferior to the Sperry, especially the WW2 surplus junk fitted to the Mk1.
As for the presence of a slip indicator on the Sperry, I have no recollection of that and this is backed up by a picture of the BBMF Dak on pages 80/81 of the DC3 Haynes Manual – perhaps it was fitted only on the early marks, and disappeared later?
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La dolce vita (or One Law for the Rich.....)
Chugalug (your #7567),
There's Posh for you ! Nice layout, presume the gubbins top centre to be autopilot control boxes. Breathtakingly luxurious seats: wear shows clearly the division of labour en route: Captain goes back into first-class for hours on end to chat-up all the birds and sample the vintage champagne and entire cordon bleu menu top to bottom.
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Captain comes back, aircraft runs into extreme turbulence, Captain throws up entire cordon blue menu into blue bucket thoughtfully provided by Company for the purpose (as in Ancient Rome, no orgy complete without a vomitorium).
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Turbulence subsides, Captain recovers, peckish again now, so goes back to First-Class, samples pudding trolley top to bottom, has black coffee, comes back, more turbulence, same again. (second bucket thoughtfully provided...)
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Captain recovers, time for descent now, graciously takes control. Can-lad permitted to rummage for packet of crisps and pork scratchings (not provided by Company). "George" flies ILS, "Autoland" rounds it off. (Applause from First-Class for the "greaser").
Parked, Air Bridge made fast, Exeunt Omnes.
Captain works out new wheeze to dodge tax on his £100+K salary, while Can-Lad tasked with emptying buckets, dreams of Captaincy in 15 years (if lucky).
It's a hard life !
(Should I copy this to "Terms and Endearments" ?)
Danny.
There's Posh for you ! Nice layout, presume the gubbins top centre to be autopilot control boxes. Breathtakingly luxurious seats: wear shows clearly the division of labour en route: Captain goes back into first-class for hours on end to chat-up all the birds and sample the vintage champagne and entire cordon bleu menu top to bottom.
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Captain comes back, aircraft runs into extreme turbulence, Captain throws up entire cordon blue menu into blue bucket thoughtfully provided by Company for the purpose (as in Ancient Rome, no orgy complete without a vomitorium).
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Turbulence subsides, Captain recovers, peckish again now, so goes back to First-Class, samples pudding trolley top to bottom, has black coffee, comes back, more turbulence, same again. (second bucket thoughtfully provided...)
Can-lad is strapped in his seat (company regs) and keeps an eye on "George".
Captain recovers, time for descent now, graciously takes control. Can-lad permitted to rummage for packet of crisps and pork scratchings (not provided by Company). "George" flies ILS, "Autoland" rounds it off. (Applause from First-Class for the "greaser").
Parked, Air Bridge made fast, Exeunt Omnes.
Captain works out new wheeze to dodge tax on his £100+K salary, while Can-Lad tasked with emptying buckets, dreams of Captaincy in 15 years (if lucky).
It's a hard life !
(Should I copy this to "Terms and Endearments" ?)
Danny.
harrym, you are absolutely correct, Sir! Not only have the Turn & Slips and the Altimeters switched places but the former are not of the needle and ball type that I remember. Why that should be I have no idea, but remember reading somewhere that the Standard Flying Panel was revised sometime post-war. Could this be the original layout, with a trial fitting of the new fangled needle and ball type (to try out on the boy of course ;-). Doesn't explain how this Hastings avoided the later mods. Perhaps some restoration changes are the explanation. Never mind, give the man a cigar!
Edited to add; thanks for your explanation of the Sperry Autopilot functioning and how it was superior (as I can well believe) with ours as fitted in the Hastings.
Danny, your picture of bucolic and tyrannical captaincy was alas no longer the order of the day by my time. We were all very touchy-feely, concerned with the finer feelings of the lower classes (ie the co-pilots!). As often as not he outranked me anyway, me being a mere Flying Officer. Certainly being unmarried I was often the lowest paid member of the crew, with SNCO and Warrant Officer ones pulling in more than many of the commissioned officers. I seem to remember the Form 6663, that the Co-pilot (as sub-imprest holder) kept updated for each member of the crew en-route, said all about one's financial status.
Nonetheless the pic of the DC-3 recalls Ernest K Gann's "Fate is the Hunter", and his description of attempting a let down by night while his captain kept lighting matches in front of his face (simulating lightning?). Though on reflection it was probably in a DC-2. The Oscar Brand song "Oh, I'm the Co-Pilot, I sit on the right" is a lament of harsh injustice (no doubt still to be found on YouTube).
That row of switches along the coaming were nothing as sophisticated as auto-pilot ones, but merely operated the various external lights, such as nav and taxy. Many were of an arcane nature that we never used and had no real understanding of their application, such as resin and downward identification lights (the latter having a morse key unit and colour selection switch). It is only on this forum that some explanation has been forthcoming. Finally there was a glider tug light, which my pilots notes helpfully explains "is no longer in use"!
GE, your post leaves me mystified though feeling vaguely guilty at having kept you awake at night when you were on Flight Watch. Firstly, what is/was IRS (other than an American Tax-Man)? Why did you advertise in the En-Route book a channel that
Admittedly all communication with the outside world (including telegrams) was via the desk of the signaller whose black arts could produce the New York actuals but not those of the Pacific a/f that you were inbound to. It had its advantages though, as any delay encountered could present opportunities to inform Ops that you intended to bypass some unfavoured nightstop and catch up the itinerary by proceeding onward to a favoured one, unless otherwise ordered (knowing full well that sun-spots, diurnal variation, and the many other varied obstacles to HF comms could well prevent being thus otherwise ordered).
Edited to add; thanks for your explanation of the Sperry Autopilot functioning and how it was superior (as I can well believe) with ours as fitted in the Hastings.
Danny, your picture of bucolic and tyrannical captaincy was alas no longer the order of the day by my time. We were all very touchy-feely, concerned with the finer feelings of the lower classes (ie the co-pilots!). As often as not he outranked me anyway, me being a mere Flying Officer. Certainly being unmarried I was often the lowest paid member of the crew, with SNCO and Warrant Officer ones pulling in more than many of the commissioned officers. I seem to remember the Form 6663, that the Co-pilot (as sub-imprest holder) kept updated for each member of the crew en-route, said all about one's financial status.
Nonetheless the pic of the DC-3 recalls Ernest K Gann's "Fate is the Hunter", and his description of attempting a let down by night while his captain kept lighting matches in front of his face (simulating lightning?). Though on reflection it was probably in a DC-2. The Oscar Brand song "Oh, I'm the Co-Pilot, I sit on the right" is a lament of harsh injustice (no doubt still to be found on YouTube).
That row of switches along the coaming were nothing as sophisticated as auto-pilot ones, but merely operated the various external lights, such as nav and taxy. Many were of an arcane nature that we never used and had no real understanding of their application, such as resin and downward identification lights (the latter having a morse key unit and colour selection switch). It is only on this forum that some explanation has been forthcoming. Finally there was a glider tug light, which my pilots notes helpfully explains "is no longer in use"!
GE, your post leaves me mystified though feeling vaguely guilty at having kept you awake at night when you were on Flight Watch. Firstly, what is/was IRS (other than an American Tax-Man)? Why did you advertise in the En-Route book a channel that
was never used,
Last edited by Chugalug2; 26th Oct 2015 at 10:09. Reason: Sperry/ Smiths Autopilots
Chug, IRS (commonly referred to as Iris) was Inspectorate of Radio Services.
As regards black arts, it certainly seemed that way at times. For example, one night I heard someone calling Uxbridge without success so I called him to offer to relay his message (we had a teleprinter link to Uxbridge). Turned out to be a British Eagle Brit over the English channel who needless to say had never heard of Muharraq. He declined my kind offer !
As regards black arts, it certainly seemed that way at times. For example, one night I heard someone calling Uxbridge without success so I called him to offer to relay his message (we had a teleprinter link to Uxbridge). Turned out to be a British Eagle Brit over the English channel who needless to say had never heard of Muharraq. He declined my kind offer !
Aah! ... IRIS. The Inspectorate of Radio Installations and Services.
It was IRIS's job to tour the country listening in to all sorts of transmissions and butting in when they heard a 'no-no' in the phraseology being used and then sending a nasty letter to the offending unit. If things were quiet they would call up an ATC unit (ATSU) and ask a question which would then send the operator scurrying into the Flight Planning Doc or the UK Air Pilot.
One memorable occasion was when IRIS called an ATSU and posed a question ... alas, they then stayed on permanent transmit!! Over the airwaves came "This'll sort the b*****s out, they'll take an age ....". Eventually there was a sharp "click" immediately followed by the ATSU, "Say again all after b****r!" IRIS pushed off immediately!
It was IRIS's job to tour the country listening in to all sorts of transmissions and butting in when they heard a 'no-no' in the phraseology being used and then sending a nasty letter to the offending unit. If things were quiet they would call up an ATC unit (ATSU) and ask a question which would then send the operator scurrying into the Flight Planning Doc or the UK Air Pilot.
One memorable occasion was when IRIS called an ATSU and posed a question ... alas, they then stayed on permanent transmit!! Over the airwaves came "This'll sort the b*****s out, they'll take an age ....". Eventually there was a sharp "click" immediately followed by the ATSU, "Say again all after b****r!" IRIS pushed off immediately!
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18(P)/1533 BAT Flight RAF Church Lawford
First up a big thanks for a very interesting thread and feel a little out of my depth amongst such company. I am a chopped RAF pilot having gone through EFTS at Swinderby and FTS at Linton before doing a runner and getting my civil wings. This lead to 10 years of General Aviation before getting on with a real job, less fun more money.
I have been researching a local accident that occurred on the 19 Feb 45 involving an Air Speed Oxford from 1533 BAT Flight, based at RAF Church Lawford outside Rugby. The instructor, WO Frank Needham and his student Sgt Eric Kershaw died when their aircraft, HN311, struck trees near Thurlaston Grange. The weather was poor with a low cloud base and poor visability and the accident site was on the extended center line, the aircraft had struck one of the numerous Elm trees Warwickshire was famous for.
I would be most grateful for an insite into how a beam approach procedure would have been flown. Also what was involved in the advanced flying course that the multi engine guys would have gone through.
I must add that one of the nicest afternoons I had in the airforce was after taking a group of veterans around Linton, before retiring with them to the mess for happy hour, was to find I was sharing a pint with a WWI Sopwith Camel pilot
I have been researching a local accident that occurred on the 19 Feb 45 involving an Air Speed Oxford from 1533 BAT Flight, based at RAF Church Lawford outside Rugby. The instructor, WO Frank Needham and his student Sgt Eric Kershaw died when their aircraft, HN311, struck trees near Thurlaston Grange. The weather was poor with a low cloud base and poor visability and the accident site was on the extended center line, the aircraft had struck one of the numerous Elm trees Warwickshire was famous for.
I would be most grateful for an insite into how a beam approach procedure would have been flown. Also what was involved in the advanced flying course that the multi engine guys would have gone through.
I must add that one of the nicest afternoons I had in the airforce was after taking a group of veterans around Linton, before retiring with them to the mess for happy hour, was to find I was sharing a pint with a WWI Sopwith Camel pilot
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Instrument layout & SBA
Chugalug – I had no further experience of the Hastings post-1960, so think any mods to its instrument layout took place after that. Your pic shows the G4b compass beneath the horizon, which as you know was standard on the Mk2 while the Mk1 in my time had a DG on both panels – were the Mk1s updated later to the G4?
Flap15 – re your #7574, you will find a fairly full description on use of the SBA some way back in this thread, in the account of my WW2 training. This was posted in instalments at irregular intervals, and if you search for it I think the bit to look for was put up about a year ago; it covers the summer of 1944, when I was at 21 AFU Taten Hill and detached to 1534 (?) BAT Flight at Shawbury.
Flap15 – re your #7574, you will find a fairly full description on use of the SBA some way back in this thread, in the account of my WW2 training. This was posted in instalments at irregular intervals, and if you search for it I think the bit to look for was put up about a year ago; it covers the summer of 1944, when I was at 21 AFU Taten Hill and detached to 1534 (?) BAT Flight at Shawbury.
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Just a note about those brave Polish flyers. I was in the ATC in Blackpool, the school Sqn was 2454, though the band was 2354 based in a building in the roughest council estate in Blackpool, Grange Park.
The OC was a ex Polish RAF guy called Wing Commander Tuarek(sp). He flew Hurricanes and Spitfires during the war and Meteors and Javelin post war. His son wanted to be a fighter pilot like him, but unfortunately at 6ft 7in had to settle for Transports. What was the height limit on jet fighters with a bone dome?
Sorry if I am off thread.
The OC was a ex Polish RAF guy called Wing Commander Tuarek(sp). He flew Hurricanes and Spitfires during the war and Meteors and Javelin post war. His son wanted to be a fighter pilot like him, but unfortunately at 6ft 7in had to settle for Transports. What was the height limit on jet fighters with a bone dome?
Sorry if I am off thread.
Re mentions of IRIS (above)
When I was at RAF Thornhill in 1952 and we heard on the grapevine that the annual visit from the UK of the RAF Watton-based IRIS (Inspectorate of Radio Services) Hastings carrying the Group Captain CO of IRIS and his team in their specially adapted aircraft was due, the purpose being to check whether signals standards and Air Traffic Control procedures at R.A.F. Thornhill were up to standard. We were told that we were to adhere religiously to radio procedures as laid down by Air Council Publications (ACPs) when contacted by IRIS on the R/T.
Rumours abounded about the impending visit and for signals and ATC personnel who’d not come into contact with IRIS before, their visit instilled a sense of fear and foreboding. IRIS’ visit was to check whether signals standards and Air Traffic Control procedures were up to standard. If they weren’t then woe betides the miscreant! Allegedly an adverse report could have a severe effect on promotion prospects. In the event nothing untoward happened. We (the VHF/DF operators), ATC staff and signals staff who maintained the ground-based signals aids all received a clean bill of health and later a signal from IRIS confirmed, much to our relief, that R.A.F. Thornhill ATC and Signal Sections complied with the agreed standards and procedures as laid down by the Air Ministry, which was a relief.
Later back in the UK operating ground-based radio aids, IRIS was in the habit of sneaking around UK airspace and making R/T calls and asking to use radio navigation aids without warning or prior notice.
ISTR there was an awful upset when an airfield on the South Coast (Tangmere?) didn't match what IRIS and the Air Ministry considered best practice, from wrong responses to radio calls, to Nav-aids not working properly etc. This would have been around 1954-1955.
Flight Global has an article about Signals Command with a bit about the rôle and functions of IRIS here:
1959 | 2988 | Flight Archive
My photo below is of a very smart and shiny IRIS II (Hastings TG560) taken at RAF Thornhill in 1952. The only distinguishing feature that shows it may have a signals-related rôle is the second ADF aerial on the fuselage.
Rumours abounded about the impending visit and for signals and ATC personnel who’d not come into contact with IRIS before, their visit instilled a sense of fear and foreboding. IRIS’ visit was to check whether signals standards and Air Traffic Control procedures were up to standard. If they weren’t then woe betides the miscreant! Allegedly an adverse report could have a severe effect on promotion prospects. In the event nothing untoward happened. We (the VHF/DF operators), ATC staff and signals staff who maintained the ground-based signals aids all received a clean bill of health and later a signal from IRIS confirmed, much to our relief, that R.A.F. Thornhill ATC and Signal Sections complied with the agreed standards and procedures as laid down by the Air Ministry, which was a relief.
Later back in the UK operating ground-based radio aids, IRIS was in the habit of sneaking around UK airspace and making R/T calls and asking to use radio navigation aids without warning or prior notice.
ISTR there was an awful upset when an airfield on the South Coast (Tangmere?) didn't match what IRIS and the Air Ministry considered best practice, from wrong responses to radio calls, to Nav-aids not working properly etc. This would have been around 1954-1955.
Flight Global has an article about Signals Command with a bit about the rôle and functions of IRIS here:
1959 | 2988 | Flight Archive
My photo below is of a very smart and shiny IRIS II (Hastings TG560) taken at RAF Thornhill in 1952. The only distinguishing feature that shows it may have a signals-related rôle is the second ADF aerial on the fuselage.
Last edited by Warmtoast; 26th Oct 2015 at 23:28.
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Chugalug (your #7572),
"......with SNCO and Warrant Officer ones pulling in more than many of the commissioned officers....."
When I got my wings, I got 13/6 a day as a Sgt. and paid 6d a day Mess Bill.
At that time, I think an Acting Pilot Officer (whatever that was) got 11/10 a day and would be lucky to get away with a monthly Mess Bill of £10.
Of course, I couldn't resist your bait - here it is in all its glory !
Danny.
Oscar Brand!!!
Oh I’m the co-pilot I sit on the right;
I’m quick, I’m courageous, I’m wonderfully bright;
My job is remembering what the captain forgets
and I never talk back so I have no regrets;
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home.
I make out his mail forms; I hire his whores;
I fly this old crate to the tune of his snores;
And once in awhile when his landings are rusty;
I come thru w/ “Yessirree, Captain, its gusty!”
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home!
All in all I’m commissioned to General Scrooge;
I sit on the right of this high flying stooge;
One day I’ll make captain and then I’ll be blessed;
I’ll give my poor tongue one long hell of a rest!
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home!
M
This came from an album of military time party songs w/
I assume Oscar Brand on the cover dressed in Army Air Corps
dress riding down on a parachute whilst holding a gravity bomb.
Is there another kind ? ....D.
"......with SNCO and Warrant Officer ones pulling in more than many of the commissioned officers....."
When I got my wings, I got 13/6 a day as a Sgt. and paid 6d a day Mess Bill.
At that time, I think an Acting Pilot Officer (whatever that was) got 11/10 a day and would be lucky to get away with a monthly Mess Bill of £10.
Of course, I couldn't resist your bait - here it is in all its glory !
Danny.
Oscar Brand!!!
Oh I’m the co-pilot I sit on the right;
I’m quick, I’m courageous, I’m wonderfully bright;
My job is remembering what the captain forgets
and I never talk back so I have no regrets;
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home.
I make out his mail forms; I hire his whores;
I fly this old crate to the tune of his snores;
And once in awhile when his landings are rusty;
I come thru w/ “Yessirree, Captain, its gusty!”
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home!
All in all I’m commissioned to General Scrooge;
I sit on the right of this high flying stooge;
One day I’ll make captain and then I’ll be blessed;
I’ll give my poor tongue one long hell of a rest!
I’m a lousy co-pilot and a long way from home!
M
This came from an album of military time party songs w/
I assume Oscar Brand on the cover dressed in Army Air Corps
dress riding down on a parachute whilst holding a gravity bomb.
Is there another kind ? ....D.
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Posts: n/a
lasernigel (your #7578),
I reckon that in 1952, at the ripe old age of 12, you'd be at school in Blackpool. Had St. Joseph's College ("Holy Joe's" - my alma mater) closed down by then ?
"The OC was a ex Polish RAF guy called Wing Commander Tuarek" The name suggests "Toorak" (Oz). Any connection (many Poles went out there after the war) ?
Danny.
I reckon that in 1952, at the ripe old age of 12, you'd be at school in Blackpool. Had St. Joseph's College ("Holy Joe's" - my alma mater) closed down by then ?
"The OC was a ex Polish RAF guy called Wing Commander Tuarek" The name suggests "Toorak" (Oz). Any connection (many Poles went out there after the war) ?
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 28th Oct 2015 at 00:43. Reason: GET THE CALLSIGN RIGHT !