Best & Worst Mil Aviation Film and Why
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Get Some In
Anyone remember 'Get Some In' with Robert Lindsey?
I wonder if it did much for recruitment.
Tony Selby's character, the Sergeangt, was similar to a particular Crandidtz disciplinarian that was there in the early 80's.
I wonder if it did much for recruitment.
Tony Selby's character, the Sergeangt, was similar to a particular Crandidtz disciplinarian that was there in the early 80's.
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Thread exhumation time!
B of B, Dambusters. Both excellent! Michael Redgrave as Barnes Wallis was brilliant. He even looked like him.
As a "Yoof" I loved "Firefox". although Clint Eastwood did take rather a long time to jump into the MiG after the staged fire in the hangar though. It was pretty much all extinguished before he hopped in and fired it up to move it out of harm's way!
I do remember trying my first high-speed blast on my new motorcycle a few years back though, and as the speedo needle wound gradually back down into double figures I could hear Mitchell Gant's inner monologue with "Boy! Is this a machine!"
As regards "The Sound Barrier" - if you read the excellent autobiography of Chuck Yeager (A great hero of mine, whose signed photo is framed on my wall incidentally) he relates how he attended the premiere of the film and met some VIP's afterwards.
He says he enjoyed it as a work of fiction but was dying to tell anyone who asked that if anyone really did try reversing the controls as in the film, they'd just wind up making a big, smoking hole in the floor! He kept quiet in the interests of diplomacy apparently.
My favourite of all time though? The Right Stuff. Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) trying for one last record in the NF-104.
YouTube - The Right Stuff Clip 15 - Chuck Yeager in the NF-104 Flight
Absolutely classic. Was that Daryl Greenmayer's one?
As a "Yoof" I loved "Firefox". although Clint Eastwood did take rather a long time to jump into the MiG after the staged fire in the hangar though. It was pretty much all extinguished before he hopped in and fired it up to move it out of harm's way!
I do remember trying my first high-speed blast on my new motorcycle a few years back though, and as the speedo needle wound gradually back down into double figures I could hear Mitchell Gant's inner monologue with "Boy! Is this a machine!"
As regards "The Sound Barrier" - if you read the excellent autobiography of Chuck Yeager (A great hero of mine, whose signed photo is framed on my wall incidentally) he relates how he attended the premiere of the film and met some VIP's afterwards.
He says he enjoyed it as a work of fiction but was dying to tell anyone who asked that if anyone really did try reversing the controls as in the film, they'd just wind up making a big, smoking hole in the floor! He kept quiet in the interests of diplomacy apparently.
My favourite of all time though? The Right Stuff. Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) trying for one last record in the NF-104.
YouTube - The Right Stuff Clip 15 - Chuck Yeager in the NF-104 Flight
Absolutely classic. Was that Daryl Greenmayer's one?
apparently Top Gun is great entertaining value. The list of errors is a long and ..distiniguished one BUT plenty of the greatest 'sticks' in the USN give it a thumbs up. It is a mix of ..well everything. Good entertainment value, fighter pilot spirit (that's the best part although taken to extremes in the movie) and the best flying sequencies up till then and probably unsurpassed to this day of computer imagery dominating the scene.
Having watched the ' Making of Top Gun' and interviews with the producers, directors but most improtantly with the Topgun instructors who made the film happen one realises that ...sacrifices had to be made in order for it to become the phenomenal blockbuster hit that it became. A long and distinguished list of Topgun instructors helped out
Viper Pettigrew as the mig killer ex instructor who admitted that if he had his way throughout the film it would have turned out more as a documentary rather than a blockbuster
Rat Willard as the real life Topgun XO who coordinated/briefed the flying sequencies
Heater Heatley who appears in a cameo role (along with Pettigrew) in a couple of scenes
and others.
One of the 'Mig' pilots was Tom Cassidy then a rear admiral and former VX-4 pilot flying secret Migs in the late 60's against the initial Topgun instructors and USAF pilots...
If you are a stickler to realism there's hardly a good aviation film. A few of the enjoyable and good films that come to mind now:
Bridges of Toko-ri
Memphis Belle (not least because it was partly shot at Binbrook too!)
That czech film of a few years ago (wide blue yonder??) which had some great aura (...and Spitfires!) although the actual dogfight scenes were computer animations I believe.
and of course the Battle of Britain...
Not a hell of a lot of good films with post war jets in (apart from Toko-Ri)unless one counts the Right Stuff which is excellent and some of the early brit films on test flying...
Having watched the ' Making of Top Gun' and interviews with the producers, directors but most improtantly with the Topgun instructors who made the film happen one realises that ...sacrifices had to be made in order for it to become the phenomenal blockbuster hit that it became. A long and distinguished list of Topgun instructors helped out
Viper Pettigrew as the mig killer ex instructor who admitted that if he had his way throughout the film it would have turned out more as a documentary rather than a blockbuster
Rat Willard as the real life Topgun XO who coordinated/briefed the flying sequencies
Heater Heatley who appears in a cameo role (along with Pettigrew) in a couple of scenes
and others.
One of the 'Mig' pilots was Tom Cassidy then a rear admiral and former VX-4 pilot flying secret Migs in the late 60's against the initial Topgun instructors and USAF pilots...
If you are a stickler to realism there's hardly a good aviation film. A few of the enjoyable and good films that come to mind now:
Bridges of Toko-ri
Memphis Belle (not least because it was partly shot at Binbrook too!)
That czech film of a few years ago (wide blue yonder??) which had some great aura (...and Spitfires!) although the actual dogfight scenes were computer animations I believe.
and of course the Battle of Britain...
Not a hell of a lot of good films with post war jets in (apart from Toko-Ri)unless one counts the Right Stuff which is excellent and some of the early brit films on test flying...
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You mean there were aeroplanes in 'The Bridges of Toko-ri'? All I remember is Grace Kelly in that bath tub.
One real war movie that I thought was particularly well done was the real 'Memphis Belle'. Not the movie, but the TV special made (I think) around the late seventies/early eighties which spliced the original documentary footage of the Memphis Belle's 25th mission, with interviews with the still living crewmembers 25 or 30 years after the event. (Unlike in the movie, it returned in one pretty well undamaged piece, with its crew the first 8th Air Force USAAF B17 crew to complete a full operational tour, and the movie crew accommpanied them on the mission.),
What was particularly impressive about the movie was the way the captain, slightly older (but not by much) than his very young crew, ran his aircraft. It was like watching a really good crew doing a really good job in in a full-on, no holds barred sim. session.
It was obvious from comments the rest of the crew made 30 years later that the captain wasn't particularly popular with his crew, but they certainly respected him. The way he insisted on strict intercom discipline, no shouting, no excitement, just call the incoming fighters in with calm, measured calls, virtually handing it on to the next gunner, was impressive - and absolutely nothing like the typical overexcited Hollywood version of such events.
One real war movie that I thought was particularly well done was the real 'Memphis Belle'. Not the movie, but the TV special made (I think) around the late seventies/early eighties which spliced the original documentary footage of the Memphis Belle's 25th mission, with interviews with the still living crewmembers 25 or 30 years after the event. (Unlike in the movie, it returned in one pretty well undamaged piece, with its crew the first 8th Air Force USAAF B17 crew to complete a full operational tour, and the movie crew accommpanied them on the mission.),
What was particularly impressive about the movie was the way the captain, slightly older (but not by much) than his very young crew, ran his aircraft. It was like watching a really good crew doing a really good job in in a full-on, no holds barred sim. session.
It was obvious from comments the rest of the crew made 30 years later that the captain wasn't particularly popular with his crew, but they certainly respected him. The way he insisted on strict intercom discipline, no shouting, no excitement, just call the incoming fighters in with calm, measured calls, virtually handing it on to the next gunner, was impressive - and absolutely nothing like the typical overexcited Hollywood version of such events.
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I have the real 'Memphis Belle' documentary in my video collection. Superb.
In 1997 I attended the U.S.A.F 50th anniversary Airshow at Nellis AFB. as a spectator. Walking around at 8am in the heat, I came across some stalls being erected. Some of the veterans were wearing their uniforms, and, sitting in a corner, in the shade, was an elderly gentleman,wearing, as they all do, his name badge. He was almost alone. As I walked by, I said good morning, he replied in the same, and I walked on. After 10 steps, I pulled up short, and returned. I said to him 'Excuse me Sir, but are you THE Robert Morgan?' to which he enquired as to what I meant by 'the'. I said 'Memphis Belle Robert Morgan', and to cut a long story short, it was indeed the man I had seen many times on my video. Several minutes of conversation ensued, his wife [2nd one I believe] then wrote me out an invitation to his secret 80th Birthday party at the Eagle in Cambridge. I did not attend, as I felt I had no place in such elite company!. I did not realise that he was also the leader of the first B.29 Raid on Tokyo. He signed a photograph of himself for me, and I was given his business card with the birthday invite from his wife. On returning home, I placed these two much treasured possessions in a large envelope, have since moved house twice, and cannot now find hide nor hair of them, much to my regret. He died a couple of years ago, but the memory of our conversations will always be one of my fondest Aviation memories.
In 1997 I attended the U.S.A.F 50th anniversary Airshow at Nellis AFB. as a spectator. Walking around at 8am in the heat, I came across some stalls being erected. Some of the veterans were wearing their uniforms, and, sitting in a corner, in the shade, was an elderly gentleman,wearing, as they all do, his name badge. He was almost alone. As I walked by, I said good morning, he replied in the same, and I walked on. After 10 steps, I pulled up short, and returned. I said to him 'Excuse me Sir, but are you THE Robert Morgan?' to which he enquired as to what I meant by 'the'. I said 'Memphis Belle Robert Morgan', and to cut a long story short, it was indeed the man I had seen many times on my video. Several minutes of conversation ensued, his wife [2nd one I believe] then wrote me out an invitation to his secret 80th Birthday party at the Eagle in Cambridge. I did not attend, as I felt I had no place in such elite company!. I did not realise that he was also the leader of the first B.29 Raid on Tokyo. He signed a photograph of himself for me, and I was given his business card with the birthday invite from his wife. On returning home, I placed these two much treasured possessions in a large envelope, have since moved house twice, and cannot now find hide nor hair of them, much to my regret. He died a couple of years ago, but the memory of our conversations will always be one of my fondest Aviation memories.
My favourite of all time though? The Right Stuff. Chuck Yeager (Sam Shepard) trying for one last record in the NF-104.
Chuck Yeager’s accident was strictly and fully pilot error, but the President of his Accident Board, Col. Guy Townsend, lacked the courage or integrity to call it that way and risk Chuck’s wrath and the potential for trouble from higher levels: Jackie Cochran and her husband acting through the A.F. Chief of Staff, General Curtis LeMay. Chuck’s Autobiography provides a lesson in how vindictive he was to those who refused to support him.
A few people have mentioned "Reach for the Sky", and I'll admit it was a good film for its day. What interests me though is Kenneth More's very sympathetic portrayal of Douglas Bader. I think it's true to say that Bader's reputation has suffered in the post war years. Is there anyone on here who actually knew him and would care to venture a comment? Chuck Yeager's had a bit of a roasting, so dont be shy, but not just repeated opinion - first hand if that's possible.
As an aside Kenneth More came to Marham when I was there to have a look round the Victors. One of the guys showing him round said to him that he seemed to be walking a lot better these days, and More had the good grace to laugh as though he'd never heard that one before.
As an aside Kenneth More came to Marham when I was there to have a look round the Victors. One of the guys showing him round said to him that he seemed to be walking a lot better these days, and More had the good grace to laugh as though he'd never heard that one before.
Last edited by Tankertrashnav; 11th Jun 2009 at 22:14. Reason: spelling
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liam, we're all assuming that you're putting 'Stealth' right up there at the topof the 'worst' list. I did like the extremus form-fitting flying suits though.
On the chicks, I hasten to add!
On the chicks, I hasten to add!
Worst film...The Bridges at Toko Ri.
I remember watching it as a 7 year old or so and thinking,"Great Film".
Got it from Amazon last year, complete and total rubbish as a flying film.
I remember watching it as a 7 year old or so and thinking,"Great Film".
Got it from Amazon last year, complete and total rubbish as a flying film.
i guess you can say that for ANY film. I've stopped trying to see if there are ANY good aviation films. There's so many parameters to consider.. really. You couldn't possibly satisfy everyone which is why you satisfy the masses, therefore, realism out of the window (not entirely necessary but to at least some extent). I saw TokoRi as a teenager and liked it a lot. I'd probably say the same thing as you today...who knows.
I guess Viper Pettigrew (the real Viper and Topgun instructor by ...invitation
) said it best: ''If I had it my way it would turn out more of a documentary than a movie". If aviations films are to be enjoyable to the masses rather than the few aircrew and a few maniacs (like me) watchin'em then they have to move away from realism by definition me thinks...
You want accurate portrayal of proper (kick-a$$) USN tactical flying? Picture Tom Cruise and his backseater (no shades on), visors down (no pretty eyes for the gals I'm afraid), combat spread (Iceman off to starboard and a tiny dot on the horizon), 20mile AIM-7 shots, sound comin on to the effect of the Jaws as the movie fanatic is biting his/her finger nails watchin a thin white trail of smoke then switchin to the backseat and watching Goose's radar screen and the enemy Dot disappearing from screen! Fantastic! Then instead of the "heeeeeeeehuuh" triumphant rt transmission you'd get something like a "vector 330, lets get the hell outta here" (which is similar to what the Tomcat leader said in the 1989 Libyan Mig shootdown).
Aviation films probable struggle making money because you're tryin to make money out a very specialised...hobby.. by tryin to make it appealing to the masses as well.
Far better and more realistic war films out there and pleased to say the newest as well.
Band of Brothers: excellent portrayal of company atmosphere!!
I guess Viper Pettigrew (the real Viper and Topgun instructor by ...invitation
) said it best: ''If I had it my way it would turn out more of a documentary than a movie". If aviations films are to be enjoyable to the masses rather than the few aircrew and a few maniacs (like me) watchin'em then they have to move away from realism by definition me thinks...You want accurate portrayal of proper (kick-a$$) USN tactical flying? Picture Tom Cruise and his backseater (no shades on), visors down (no pretty eyes for the gals I'm afraid), combat spread (Iceman off to starboard and a tiny dot on the horizon), 20mile AIM-7 shots, sound comin on to the effect of the Jaws as the movie fanatic is biting his/her finger nails watchin a thin white trail of smoke then switchin to the backseat and watching Goose's radar screen and the enemy Dot disappearing from screen! Fantastic! Then instead of the "heeeeeeeehuuh" triumphant rt transmission you'd get something like a "vector 330, lets get the hell outta here" (which is similar to what the Tomcat leader said in the 1989 Libyan Mig shootdown).
Aviation films probable struggle making money because you're tryin to make money out a very specialised...hobby.. by tryin to make it appealing to the masses as well.
Far better and more realistic war films out there and pleased to say the newest as well.
Band of Brothers: excellent portrayal of company atmosphere!!
coming to think of it there is in fact a good number of movies with both aura and which are also very enjoyable. Blue Max is one of them. Now I think more than ever (ok even submitting to the computer animation inevitability) one is bound to make a top production with loads of realism (bearing of course in mind that realism transferred to the screen would not necessarily be very exciting)
i thought memphis belle was very enjoyable and brought across to the viewer the realities and horror of the total air war over Europe in WW2. True, most of the things pictured as having happened on that final mission did not occur but if a portrayal of horror and awe (and indeed if a grasp of the reality was to be achieved) then the film makers had to put as many instances of 'what can go wrong over Germany at 30,000ft' as possible into one single mission: not accurate although reality is many a time (in war) stranger than fiction and these things have in fact happened to hapless individuals (Robert Johnson, P-47 ace, comes to mind and his epic survival of after being shot up very severely and many times over by Luftwaffe fighters on the way back from an escort mission-including Luftwaffe ace Egon Mayer)
The documentary on Memphis Belle was excellent by the way but obviously wouldn't exactly make a box office hit nowadays.
Some films have what I'd call quite a special aura and I'd put Bridges of Toko-Ri in there. The Hunters I've regrettably never read although for me it has great aura too (I guess I'm awe of Korean war battles including the F-86 v Mig-15 battles)
i thought memphis belle was very enjoyable and brought across to the viewer the realities and horror of the total air war over Europe in WW2. True, most of the things pictured as having happened on that final mission did not occur but if a portrayal of horror and awe (and indeed if a grasp of the reality was to be achieved) then the film makers had to put as many instances of 'what can go wrong over Germany at 30,000ft' as possible into one single mission: not accurate although reality is many a time (in war) stranger than fiction and these things have in fact happened to hapless individuals (Robert Johnson, P-47 ace, comes to mind and his epic survival of after being shot up very severely and many times over by Luftwaffe fighters on the way back from an escort mission-including Luftwaffe ace Egon Mayer)
The documentary on Memphis Belle was excellent by the way but obviously wouldn't exactly make a box office hit nowadays.
Some films have what I'd call quite a special aura and I'd put Bridges of Toko-Ri in there. The Hunters I've regrettably never read although for me it has great aura too (I guess I'm awe of Korean war battles including the F-86 v Mig-15 battles)
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Worst ever aviation film:
Fate is the Hunter.
Why? Because it had almost nothing in common with the eponymous book, my all time favourite Aviation Book (part military, anyway!).
Best ever military aviation film:
The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress; Producer William Wyler (1944)
Why? Because it is a fitting tribute to all those who fought, and the many that died, in the daytime Bombing Campaign of WW2. Watch it (for free!) here:
Internet Archive: Free Download: The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress
Fate is the Hunter.
Why? Because it had almost nothing in common with the eponymous book, my all time favourite Aviation Book (part military, anyway!).
Best ever military aviation film:
The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress; Producer William Wyler (1944)
Why? Because it is a fitting tribute to all those who fought, and the many that died, in the daytime Bombing Campaign of WW2. Watch it (for free!) here:
Internet Archive: Free Download: The Memphis Belle: A Story of a Flying Fortress