Pilot Officer Windsor anyone?

[mustflywillfly]

I'm going to have a punt at the following:

A reduced JEFTS (or whatever it is called these days) prob no more then 30 hours.

Then a quick stint in the TinCans at Linton maybe 15 hours or so.

Finally 30 hours max at Shawbs on the Squirrel.

In otherwords a total load of badly designed crap without any consideration to Training Needs Analysis, Job Analysis, the Defence Systems Approach to Training OR CREDIBILITY.

I bet he still gets his wings awarded (and at some lavish ceremony to boot) despite having only done "taster" sessions at each location!

Fair play having a stint with all three Armed Services to better understand what we all do. But only those who have completed a full course of training should get their wings whether it be RAF, RN or Army.

Ends.

MFWF

[minigundiplomat]

He seems pretty adept at keeping his opinions to himself, and not making waves.
Perhaps he should be CAS......

[Farfrompuken]

MFWF:

Fair play having a stint with all three Armed Services to better understand what we all do. But only those who have completed a full course of training should get their wings whether it be RAF, RN or Army.

Since he'll be awarded Wings under QRs (the Q bit referring to his Grandmother) and fairly soon he'll be both Boss and the K to which KRs refer to, I think he has every right to those wings. It is the ROYAL Air Force, you know!

I do agree, however, that the focus of his sabbatical with us should be on the Ops side, rather than the Trg side of the fence.

[StopStart]

In otherwords a total load of badly designed crap without any consideration to Training Needs Analysis, Job Analysis, the Defence Systems Approach to Training OR CREDIBILITY.

No but seriously - who gives a crap about any that nonsense anyway? All any of that guff has done is slow down training and increase nugatory paperwork. Anyway - credibility? In what and to whom? He's not going to be leading a 4-ship over the border ffs.

Is it me or do some people have to moan about anything these days?
Good luck to the bloke. He gets a bit of exposure to the RAF, the RAF get a bit of PR, I get paid the same at the end of the month and no-one dies (fingers crossed). He'll get his wings, it'll be symbolic, there'll be another painting of a Royal in flying kit in CHOM and, er, that's it.

Give it a rest

Edit: there are plenty of serving people in the RAF that could do with a sabbatical on the Ops side of things let alone our royals.......

[Farfrompuken]

Edit: there are plenty of serving people in the RAF that could do with a sabbatical on the Ops side of things let alone our royals.......

SS, you're not wrong there!

[vecvechookattack]

Exactly. The RAF are not training him to be a fighter jock or to any sort of level of OC. He is doing this to familiarise himself with what his Armed Forces do. You will notice that above the letters RAF on your wings there is a crown. At the moment that crown is his grandmothers but one day that crown will be his. If he were not doing this there would be uproar as to why the future monarch isn't interested in his Armed Forces.

VVHA

[minigundiplomat]

If he were not doing this there would be uproar as to why the future monarch isn't interested in his Armed Forces.

Fortunately the Monarchy remains committed to the Military. It's the government which seem to be trying to hunt both into extinction!

Is the death sentence still extant for treason? You get Broon, I'll get a rope!

[Davaar]

Melchett01 lists (post #19) his father and grandfather as predecessor pilots with "wings". Don't forget his great-grandfather.

[vecvechookattack]

what about his Uncle Edward? Did he receive his wings?

[airborne_artist]

Can anyone remember what the PoW did to get his wings? DoY did the full course in the RN, though he'd already done something very close to EFT (which he re-did at Leeming) at Benson before he went to BRNC, just in case he hadn't got it. As it happens, he nearly failed at BRNC - struggled with surface nav....

[StopStart]

Ripping yarns here

On being appointed Colonel-in-Chief of the Parachute Regiment, a few months before he was 30, The Prince asked to take part in the parachute training course.

The Prince felt he could not "look them in the eye" or wear the Parachute Regiment's famous beret and wings badge unless he had done the course, he told his biographer, Jonathan Dimbleby, 15 years later.

"I felt I should lead from the front or at least be able to do some of the things that one expects others to do for the country," said The Prince.

[rudekid]

So, I wonder when he goes on his obligatory visit to Creedon Hill, will he get awarded his SAS badge?

No, thought not....

Is it only ours that's worthy of being degraded? Will he get an EOD badge when he visits those boys, what about a red flying suit when he goes flying (inevitably) with the Reds.

It matters not whether the crown on our flying badge belongs to his dad, his grandma or one of those bloody corgi things. You should still earn them, along with everybody else who wears them. I'm glad he's interested in flying with us and he should get the opportunity as head of state. But I really hope we don't give him his wings. Prince William seems a bright guy and must surely know that he doesn't get credibility from wearing a badge, as you might argue so should we. However, given the effort we put in, given the difficulty and commitment demonstrated to get these things in the first place, then I will be very upset if the RAF hierarchy (and lets face it, this will be an RAF decision) decide to award him his flying badge. If it's pre-ordained he has to get them, put him through the same course as everyone else!

For what it's worth, HRH Prince Charles, HRH Prince Andrew and the Duke of Edinburgh all earned them properly. Prince Charles F500 equivalent is interesting reading, apparently!

Anyway, before we all get too worked up, has anyone actually announced he is getting his wings?

[Lionel Lion]

what about his Uncle Edward? Did he receive his wings?

Brown wings I heard............................................

[PPRuNeUser0211]

"1995
July - The Prince of Wales decided that he would no longer pilot royal aircraft.
November - On The Prince's 50th birthday (14th November 1998) the Ministry of Defence announced that His Royal Highness had been promoted to "2-star" Rank in all three Services of the Armed Forces. The Prince was given the rank of Group Captain in the Royal Air Force."

Is that date per chance co-incidental with a certain prang....?

[Wingswinger]

He's a royal, so is automatically allowed to go through flight training... makes my blood boil

Well, it is his grannie's flying club.

[nick986]

If he is Army then when he finishes surely he will get Army Wings?

[spheroid]

Rudekid, you clearly don't understand the role of the Monachry.

Is it only ours that's worthy of being degraded? Will he get an EOD badge when he visits those boys, what about a red flying suit when he goes flying (inevitably) with the Reds.

He won't go flying with the Reds. The reds will go flying with him.

It matters not whether the crown on our flying badge belongs to his dad, his grandma or one of those bloody corgi things. You should still earn them, along with everybody else who wears them.

Of course it does. The flying badge belongs to the Monarchy. It is theres to award to those who they feel fit to award to. Have a look at the USAF wings..... hmmmm

[rudekid]

Spheroid

Rudekid, you clearly don't understand the role of the Monachry.

No, I agree with you. I have no idea of their role But if you mean the monarchy, then I'm still not 100% with you either.

Now let's both assume that I'm not knocking the Royal family here, nor Her Majesty and her role as head of state, but let's be realistic. This decision will be a service decision, probably taken (I hazard a guess) by CAS, with guidance from AOC 22 or maybe the Air Sec. Of course, HRH Lt Wales could wear whatever he wants and none would challenge him except in anonymous forums like these. Of course that's not likely either, as by all accounts, he is a bright, thoughtful individual who wouldn't want to irritate his service colleagues by demeaning them nor their awards from his grandmother. So really then, it boils down to the RAF awarding them to him.

Granted, this is all good PR for the RAF (I don't disagree) but given that we have already been told there's a short timescale for HRH to get a taste of all things RAF, then it strikes me as a fairly easy question for the CAS to ask. Can I award him his wings based on what we can give him in condensed timeframe? The answer to this question (IF posed) won't be answered negatively by any 2*, so we know the end outcome. HRH will get awarded his wings and they will (in my opinion) be diminished.

I would bet my mortgage that 22 SAS wouldn't reduce their criteria to award their 'badge' to a Royal (hat on standby for eating, house keys in post) if he hadn't passed selection.

If we (as a service) want him to wear them (and I don't think it's a bad thing) then WE should respect ourselves enough to honour those who wear them, those who've gone before and those yet to wear them. Put him through what everyone else does. Or accept we have little self respect.

[AdanaKebab]

The Royals can do as they please, it's their train set ... but us mere mortals can't complain when we were doing it from the start. Trenchard set himself a flying and ground examination, correcting his own paper and awarding himself his wings!!!

[Davaar]

Theres nothing, bar nothing that demeans our uniform more than a peacock wearing one"?

So, let's see:

HM King George VI: Battle of Jutland, gunnery officer, HMS Collingwood;
Submarines (one of which sank with him on board);
Pilot's Flying Badge, 1919;
Admiral of the Fleet Lord Louis of Battenberg: 1st Sea Lord;
Admiral of the Fleet the Earl Mountbatten of Burma: 1st Sea Lord;
HRH the Duke of Edinburgh: long service RN, WW2 and later, Pilot's Flying Badge;
HRH the Prince of Wales: RN service, surface command at
sea; submarine training; Pilot's
Flying Badge; parachute training; at least one
trip below the Arctic ice;
HRH the Duke of York: regular RN service, Pilot's Flying Badge; active
service in the Falklands campaign.
HRH the Prince William: RMA Sandhurst;
HRH the Prince Harry: RMA Sandhurst.

Is this so essentially trivial a record (admittedly omits one death on active service and incomplete) for one extended family?