What would keep you in?
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t_e reply
t_e
Your wording in your early submission
is probably perfect for many others, including myself. I am leaving as "Quality of Life" is a phrase not recognised as important by the decision makers. Loader's "motivational" speeches seem to be unloading the service universally placing it in a flameout and we're losing the cream of the work force. God bless the ones who stay, it is the PMA version of the Berlin Wall and in 8-9 years time the whole of the kit that remains will not be replaced by the new stuff as it is not being procured in a timely or "Best-kit-for-the-job" manner. It doesn't help when more than a minority are operating the current stuff as if they stole it and not like they owned it themselves. Look after your machines, folks. The replacements aren't coming any time soon.
But, most importantly, look after your selves because that's what everyone above you is doing
Your wording in your early submission
Frankly, a £100k bonus wouldn't keep me in at this point. I feel totally let down by the organisation that I've wanted to be a part of since I was a boy. If it lived up to its promise - excitement, interesting travel, decent future prospects, variety of postings - I'd stay. With Their Airships out for themselves at the expense of the people they're supposed to look after, I'll take Loader's charming advice and get out.
But, most importantly, look after your selves because that's what everyone above you is doing
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Its not just better shampoo we should be getting,....how about some decent talcum powder? Yep, some nice perfumed talc would do the trick and make me sign on for a few more years...........
I'd like to see an end to aircrew retention bonuses that piss everyone else off
There is merits in what you say. But I suspect you are one of the people who will be trying to fill a day counting paperclips and sending people emails to 'raise your profile'.
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There is merits in what you say. But I suspect you are one of the people who will be trying to fill a day counting paperclips and sending people emails to 'raise your profile'.
But thanks for your suspects.
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I just been reading through this post and its interesting to here from the Aircrew and there thoughts ,they do seem to echo what us groundcrew feel in general, so for once i do sympathise for the flyers and its nice to know they are going through what we only thought as groundcrew issues. There is many a thread to say what has gone wrong and why it has,i have my own thoughts like everyone here. For pilots to go sends out a bigger message to the upper echolons than groundies leaving,we are expendable and to loose a few thousand experienced groundies is not big deal to them as they looking at paper and money , the hard line is we are struggling to get the aircraft in the air and having to work harder and more hours away and at home,this is having a knock on affect to everyone. Pilots/aircrew need hours to fly , we under pressure to provide a/c serv,sections are asked to provide more out of hours but that dont happen. These are things that the so called Murphys/chain of events that we are supposed to highlight. I just cant see any way we are going to get out of this tbh. Its easy to say yes we have to work more, I like many and the lads on our squadron have no problem with giving extra and going out the way , but everytime we do that ,we get no thanks or nothing in return and slowly this has eroded away that attitude of can do !! as far as most think now ,why should i give extra. We have nothing to give the lads anymore 
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I have to agree with Magners. We are all now in a sinking ship with little prospect of rescue. If the RAF was sincire in trying to keep people in. I think we would have seen changes start to happen. I am also in ground trades and I cannot beleive how short sighted the MOD are in thier attitude to manning and welfare issues. We are in trouble, there is no point trying to agrue with this, people are leaving faster than ever before as there is no incentive for them to stay. I have decided in the last month to get out
I can't stand seeing the Airforce being constantly ground down and down. I constantly see the 'can do' attitude to getting jobs done, being abused more and more. This can't go on, it's wrong. I dearly still love my job, unfortunatly I can no longer do it in the Airforce. If I was to be persuaded to stay in, it would only happen if the Airforce and the other services were given a massive budget boost, in which the money would be spent by the people who understood where it was to go. Not some flashy painting to drape in some civil serpent's office in Whitehall. 
I can't stand seeing the Airforce being constantly ground down and down. I constantly see the 'can do' attitude to getting jobs done, being abused more and more. This can't go on, it's wrong. I dearly still love my job, unfortunatly I can no longer do it in the Airforce. If I was to be persuaded to stay in, it would only happen if the Airforce and the other services were given a massive budget boost, in which the money would be spent by the people who understood where it was to go. Not some flashy painting to drape in some civil serpent's office in Whitehall.
Don't think I would PVR. But that has little to do with loyalty to the MOD, more to do with not that long to go to my 16/38 and a pension for the rest of my life for simply waking up in the morning.
As has been stated on numerous occasions in numerous threads over the years, the can do attitude is being abused, the good-will tank is running on fumes, leadership has been replaced by poor management, career prospects are non-existant.So when the time comes, I will hand my 1250 in and seek pastures new. But it will be with a twinge of regret.
What really really grates is that the RAF was all I ever wanted to do since I was knee high to my parents. Imagine the disappointment that I and everyone like me in that same boat now feels. What was a once proud war winning organization that kept the hoardes at bay in 1940 against the doubts of the rest of the world, that took the fight to the Nazis under Bomber Harris, that guarded our skies during the Cold War, the organization that litters the history books with barking attempts to get across the Atlantic in a Harrier GR1, taking off from St Pancras station, has now been reduced to a near bankrupt civilianized aggressive flying club, plagued by bean counters and yes men, political interference, in-fighting and an general inability to do any of the fantastic things that we used to do. What appears in the RAF News these days as the latest fantastic achievement probably wouldn't have raised an eyelid 40-50 years ago - today we deploy a Flt of ac to some god forsaken bit of desert - how many entire Air Forces did we have in god forsaken bits of desert during WW2 and the Cold War???
So I will in all likelihood go at my 16/38 - I doubt even the offer of promotion or assimilation would keep me in. I will go with regret and more than a twinge of sadness at having been sold a pup. But when I go, I will be proud of the RAF and what I have done in my time and remain loyal to the real RAF and what it stands for. At the same time, I will have nothing but contempt for the MOD and the RAF's leadership that failed to stand up for a proud fighting force in its hour of need.
As has been stated on numerous occasions in numerous threads over the years, the can do attitude is being abused, the good-will tank is running on fumes, leadership has been replaced by poor management, career prospects are non-existant.So when the time comes, I will hand my 1250 in and seek pastures new. But it will be with a twinge of regret.
What really really grates is that the RAF was all I ever wanted to do since I was knee high to my parents. Imagine the disappointment that I and everyone like me in that same boat now feels. What was a once proud war winning organization that kept the hoardes at bay in 1940 against the doubts of the rest of the world, that took the fight to the Nazis under Bomber Harris, that guarded our skies during the Cold War, the organization that litters the history books with barking attempts to get across the Atlantic in a Harrier GR1, taking off from St Pancras station, has now been reduced to a near bankrupt civilianized aggressive flying club, plagued by bean counters and yes men, political interference, in-fighting and an general inability to do any of the fantastic things that we used to do. What appears in the RAF News these days as the latest fantastic achievement probably wouldn't have raised an eyelid 40-50 years ago - today we deploy a Flt of ac to some god forsaken bit of desert - how many entire Air Forces did we have in god forsaken bits of desert during WW2 and the Cold War???
So I will in all likelihood go at my 16/38 - I doubt even the offer of promotion or assimilation would keep me in. I will go with regret and more than a twinge of sadness at having been sold a pup. But when I go, I will be proud of the RAF and what I have done in my time and remain loyal to the real RAF and what it stands for. At the same time, I will have nothing but contempt for the MOD and the RAF's leadership that failed to stand up for a proud fighting force in its hour of need.
Last edited by Melchett01; 29th Dec 2007 at 23:42.
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You don't want much then?
"2. Housing Allowance and school fees for the kids without the need to make them board, along with family Bupa and dental cover."
Theprior - isn't the point of school allowance that it enables children of forces personnel to have un-interrupted education at boarding school so that they are not dragged around the globe every five minutes when one of their parents is posted? I don't think its reasonable to expect the tax-payer to stump up for kids to go to private day school - they have, after all, already payed for the state system once.
I seem to remember that families had access to the same medical facilities as service personnel? Or has that changed?
Theprior - isn't the point of school allowance that it enables children of forces personnel to have un-interrupted education at boarding school so that they are not dragged around the globe every five minutes when one of their parents is posted? I don't think its reasonable to expect the tax-payer to stump up for kids to go to private day school - they have, after all, already payed for the state system once.
I seem to remember that families had access to the same medical facilities as service personnel? Or has that changed?
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The Royal Air Farce can only be changed by those who have the balls to stay and change it.
Individuals at every rank can make that change happen.
Remember why you joined ... then stay, and make the change.
Individuals at every rank can make that change happen.
Remember why you joined ... then stay, and make the change.
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I seem to remember that families had access to the same medical facilities as service personnel? Or has that changed?
In summary, the medical facilities are stretched to breaking point in exactly the same way as the rest of the RAF and we are living with a second rate service that is not the fault of those at the coal face.
Regarding staying and fighting for the cause, late night buses to Glagow and options to get off come to mind. I am sure those words may haunt soemebody in the years to come.
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AK,
Sorry but I completely disagree with your stance, 'we' have minimal influence at the levels required to make the necessary changes.
I joined (in the late 1970s) to do as it said in the advertising:
- enjoy camaraderie - still do very much, we have some of the best people in the world at what we do across all the armed forces, despite badge loyalties sometimes clouding issues.
- enjoy free use of sports facilities - still applies but now limited by letting pitches and facilities out as moneymakers for the treasury. Also limited by working tempo.
- enjoy a challenging job, beneficial to the nation - still is much the case, just wondering if the nation much cares
- travel the world - much more limited, very few chances for 'sunshine tours'
- free travel home for leave and visits - stopped through the treasury
- good pay and prospects - not any more, not for what we regularly do (wonder if we will get a 10% rise like the MPs want
).
There is more, however, I must complete my CV and application forms ....
Sorry but I completely disagree with your stance, 'we' have minimal influence at the levels required to make the necessary changes.
The Royal Air Farce can only be changed by those who have the balls to stay and change it.
Individuals at every rank can make that change happen.
Remember why you joined ... then stay, and make the change.
Individuals at every rank can make that change happen.
Remember why you joined ... then stay, and make the change.
- enjoy camaraderie - still do very much, we have some of the best people in the world at what we do across all the armed forces, despite badge loyalties sometimes clouding issues.
- enjoy free use of sports facilities - still applies but now limited by letting pitches and facilities out as moneymakers for the treasury. Also limited by working tempo.
- enjoy a challenging job, beneficial to the nation - still is much the case, just wondering if the nation much cares
- travel the world - much more limited, very few chances for 'sunshine tours'
- free travel home for leave and visits - stopped through the treasury
- good pay and prospects - not any more, not for what we regularly do (wonder if we will get a 10% rise like the MPs want
).There is more, however, I must complete my CV and application forms ....
Last edited by L1A2 discharged; 30th Dec 2007 at 11:42. Reason: some spelling corrected