RAF Fitness Test - Soon to be twice a year!

[Al R]

For what it's worth, I believe that personal fitness is a personal responsibility whether you be an airman, private, road sweeper or Mcdonalds worker. It's not just about doing the job, it's also about self respect, dignaty, pride..

.. the attitude of some of these posts would indicate your plea is falling on deaf ears.

.. spurious talk of "operational fitness" and other such tosh

I think that the bottom line is that those that are fat and unfit will always find a good excuse/reason to stay that way and that those that recognise the benefits of a healthy lifestyle will continue to be dismayed by their arguments.

Agreed.

Bottom line.. I could run round all day saddled with a GPMG

Bet you couldn't.

[vecvechookattack]

Are you guys allowed to go to the gym before or after work? The Gym here at culdrose opens at 6am and shuts at midnight so we can use it at anytime during that period.

[Al R]

Well, look at the proposed "recommendation" of 3 x 50 min sessions per week. Now, allow transit to/fro gym & suitable time to shower/change, let's make the maths easy, say 4 hrs a week in total (might be less, might be more, depending on proximity to gym).

This is where the numbers game isn't quite to easy - assume Mon - Fri only & with one hr for lunch, an 8 hr day (I know, I know, laughably under-stated for some sections! ) = 40 hrs total work period.

So, the proposal could mean that 10% of productive duty will allocated to gym time..... yeah, right!!

Am I missing something? Whats so harmful about parading at the gym at 07.20, speed showering and then starting work at say, 0820? I'm sure there's a genuine reason, but for the life of me..

[Al R]

Are you guys allowed to go to the gym before or after work? The Gym here at culdrose opens at 6am and shuts at midnight so we can use it at anytime during that period.

Ramstein, Lackland, Pope and a.n other which I've forgotten had gyms that were open 24/7. They probably still do. What used to bug the hell out of me, was fat Sharon from accounts taking 45 minutes to amble half a mile and civvies being allowed to use the gym at night, as 'associate' members or some such rot. Madness.

[ZH875]

It is amazing how many people take an hour and a half of each day to go to the gym, then get back to the office and take a full dinner hour.

There's keeping fit, and taking the p1ss, and I know what category that daily routine comes under.

Here's hoping that the RAFFT becomes a monthly event.

[BEagle]

I recall the wise words of an old RAAF type:

"If yer want to get fit, mate, get yerself a heavier glass"

[Maple 01]

Bet you couldn't.

Bet I did - Taceval anyone?

The RAFFT, for those of you who are too young to remember its introduction, and have subsequently been brainwashed into accepting any old fitness tripe that is trotted out, was meant in the first place to be about 'operational fitness' until someone pointed out that you can't have different levels for different ages/sexes because the enemy will not allow extra time for the girls to do their 1.5 mile run (probably in the direction of away - that was my plan)

So verily those that make the decisions decided it wasn't an operational fitness test as such, just a general test of fitness, but even that looked stupid so we went for some mystical and holistic "lifestyle check" except soft cuddly lifestyle checks don’t normally have Stalinist style clauses where someone’s attitude to them could be commented on in their assessment – I mean no-one ever complained about my attitude to British foreign policy 1983-2000 and that had a bigger effect on my job than whether I liked doing shuttle-runs or not

My understanding was a lot of this was pushed by the PTI branch (whatever that was) and those lost souls who liked the option of 'every man a soldier'. If some other sinister force was behind it I'd like to know

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Al R

Am I missing something? Whats so harmful about parading at the gym at 07.20, speed showering and then starting work at say, 0820? I'm sure there's a genuine reason, but for the life of me..

On an airbase with 2000 personnel, let us assume 1000 are available for your 0720 start time. This is 3000 0720 starts in a week. That is 600 per day, every day. The locker room can handle may be 50 and no lockers. Now, as for showering, ignoring sexes but assuming a one minute shower that is 10 showers per minute starting at 0720, ie before you exercise?

Sorry a 30 minute exercise period so that is now 20 showers per minute. Now let us assume one gallon of hot water per minute per shower.

So we need a bank of 20 showers, the ability to deliver 20 gallons of hot water per minute and 600 gallons in 30 minutes.

For the rest of the day this super facility will be under used.

Now Edward Leigh of the NAO criticised the Army for spending Ł400k on gym facilities when there are dozens of sub-standard quarters.

So the early morning start is bs, there is no money to improve the infrastructure.


Tell me I am wrong and it all works. The moment you tell me that it is a personal responsibility, that I can do it at home before I go to work, then it is back to square one because all I have to do then is pass the finest test. As for this twice a year it used to be every quarter. Naturally I just turned up, ran the mile and a half, tick in the box, put up with the stiffness for a day or so, then waited 12 weeks for the next test. What did it prove? That I could run a mile and a half in the stipulated time from cold.

[An Teallach]

Quote:
Bet you couldn't.
Bet I did

Phew, Maple. Being a largish chap I was made the proud owner of a Gimpie for my time at Sandhurst (having routinely broken the Charlie-G like everyone else so they all had to go back to the armoury, sod carrying that thing!). I actually came to prefer my Gimpie, but I was thinking you must be some kind of gym queen if you could still do the biz with a Gimpie all day. I know I couldn't!

[SRENNAPS]

Let’s face it, the Forces managed in World Wars 1 and 2, Korea, Nam, Aden, Falklands, GW1, and several more campaigns not mentioned. For the earlier campaigns they all smoked – how bad is that!!!!!

But quite a lot lived to a ripe old age and many people of recent campaigns will also do the same; despite what they eat, drink and smoke.

There is paranoia about the so called healthy life style from certain individuals. There is so much talk about what to eat, what to drink, how much exercise to do etc, etc, etc.

Are you so arrogant to really believe that mankind has got it so right that with todays belief about healthy living that we are all going to live to 106 years old?????

Why don’t you look at the average age of past famous athletes, footballers and any other sportsmen/women? I think you will find that most died at an average age.

The main reason that people are living longer is because of the medical research in certain areas curing many deceases. If you look at real figures you will see………..!!!!!!????????

Oh bollacks!!!! I have had enough of this…..

What is the point of arguing with some of you brainwashed idiots.

I get so annoyed that some of you paranoid fitness freaks suggest that us older types were not up to the job.

Never forget that people that have fought wars bigger and greater than you will ever do get some what annoyed by some the junk posted here.

For gods sake get a life and start living --- you only get one shot at it.

[Al R]

On an airbase with 2000 personnel, let us assume 1000 are available for your 0720 start time. This is 3000 0720 starts in a week. That is 600 per day, every day. The locker room can handle may be 50 and no lockers. Now, as for showering, ignoring sexes but assuming a one minute shower that is 10 showers per minute starting at 0720, ie before you exercise?

Tell me I am wrong and it all works. The moment you tell me that it is a personal responsibility, that I can do it at home before I go to work, then it is back to square one because all I have to do then is pass the finest test. As for this twice a year it used to be every quarter. Naturally I just turned up, ran the mile and a half, tick in the box, put up with the stiffness for a day or so, then waited 12 weeks for the next test. What did it prove? That I could run a mile and a half in the stipulated time from cold.

Firstly, I have said before that I don't agree with testing, unless you teach.

Back to your premise. Lets assume there is a unit of 2000, which of course, not all are. 4.5% downgraded/sick. 6-11% deployed. 15-25% shift workers. Lets say, for arguements sake, we only have 1600 people to train each week.

Lets imagine too, that the young officers on the unit are actually doing what they're paid for, using their brains and deconflicting, so.. they work out that one third will do fizz in the morning, one third in the middle of the morning, one in the middle of the day, one in the middle of the afternoon and one third before knock off. AND its staggered too, so that not everyone is doing fizz all the time on the same day. Scaleys go home for their shower, singlies have their ensuites.. and there's the gym.

Whatever way you look at it, sure, its a problem to be overcome, but its not an insurmountable problem. Can't the Royal Air Force work out a shower roster nowadays?

[Al R]

Bet I did - Taceval anyone?

The RAFFT, for those of you who are too young to remember its introduction, and have subsequently been brainwashed into accepting any old fitness tripe that is trotted out, was meant in the first place to be about 'operational fitness' until someone pointed out that you can't have different levels for different ages/sexes because the enemy will not allow extra time for the girls to do their 1.5 mile run (probably in the direction of away - that was my plan)

So verily those that make the decisions decided it wasn't an operational fitness test as such, just a general test of fitness, but even that looked stupid so we went for some mystical and holistic "lifestyle check" except soft cuddly lifestyle checks don’t normally have Stalinist style clauses where someone’s attitude to them could be commented on in their assessment – I mean no-one ever complained about my attitude to British foreign policy 1983-2000 and that had a bigger effect on my job than whether I liked doing shuttle-runs or not

My understanding was a lot of this was pushed by the PTI branch (whatever that was) and those lost souls who liked the option of 'every man a soldier'. If some other sinister force was behind it I'd like to know

It was introduced to reflect overall fitness, not 'operational fitness'. That depends on many things other than the ability to do a bleep test. However it has been bastardised is getting off the point. Nammely, that surely it is better to aim for a higher standard that sit around all day trying to justify reasons for wallowing in a lower one?

I have to say, I never ran around all day with a GPMG, and I was a section GiMPY gunner for 198 months. Apart from doing pokey drill with them mind, at Catterick. Now that smarted.

[Al R]

Let’s face it, the Forces managed in World Wars 1 and 2, Korea, Nam, Aden, Falklands, GW1, and several more campaigns not mentioned. For the earlier campaigns they all smoked – how bad is that!!!!!

But quite a lot lived to a ripe old age and many people of recent campaigns will also do the same; despite what they eat, drink and smoke.

There is paranoia about the so called healthy life style from certain individuals. There is so much talk about what to eat, what to drink, how much exercise to do etc, etc, etc.

Are you so arrogant to really believe that mankind has got it so right that with todays belief about healthy living that we are all going to live to 106 years old?????

Why don’t you look at the average age of past famous athletes, footballers and any other sportsmen/women? I think you will find that most died at an average age.

The main reason that people are living longer is because of the medical research in certain areas curing many deceases. If you look at real figures you will see………..!!!!!!????????

Oh bollacks!!!! I have had enough of this…..

What is the point of arguing with some of you brainwashed idiots.

I get so annoyed that some of you paranoid fitness freaks suggest that us older types were not up to the job.

Never forget that people that have fought wars bigger and greater than you will ever do get some what annoyed by some the junk posted here.

For gods sake get a life and start living --- you only get one shot at it.

In World war 1, the men carried 23lbs of kit, today, its closer to 75 lbs if you're lucky. Then, they had next to sod all machinery to operate, today, mens minds have to be sharper for longer, and thats where physical fitness assists accuity which is critical. And no.. they survived.. they didn't manage anything. They were unfit and as ill as hell, and it was only because the enemy was in a similar situation that they got away with it.

If I was still in (and I'm not, so its a moot point) I wouldn't care what mankind did, my objective would be to ensure my men got home in one piece and that things ran as efficiently as possible. And thats where physical fitness can play its part.

I'm far from being a paranoid fitness freak now. Sure, in my early 20s I went for 2 or 3 runs a day, but that soon petered out! BUT.. as a result of being fit, my job was so much easier. I had more confidence to do better things, I could lead by example and I didn't spend ages trying to justify being lazy and unfit in what is supposed to be a fighting service. Aden.. Suez etc.. thats yesterday. This is today, we know more now and there are greater demands. I trust that the newer generation of leaders are not so myopic when it comes to the importance of keeping fit.

[Maple 01]

I was thinking you must be some kind of gym queen if you could still do the biz with a Gimpie all day

Ah! Once more AT outs me, I have to confess the all-day GPMG fest was a while back - on the other hand I can still manage a very reasonable time with heavy shopping from Lidl (how pikey?) And still can run away from 3rd Shock (or who ever the bad guys are now) at twice the rate of a lady half my age - who's fitter? (in a non-sexual sense you pervs)

BUT.. as a result of being fit, my job was so much easier.

Yep, bleep test always sharpened my presentation skills

Aren’t we back to the old “fit to do your job?”

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Al R

using their brains and deconflicting, so.. they work out that one third will do fizz in the morning, one third in the middle of the morning, one in the middle of the day, one in the middle of the afternoon and one third before knock off. AND its staggered too, so that not everyone is doing fizz all the time on the same day. Scaleys go home for their shower, singlies have their ensuites.. and there's the gym.

Whatever way you look at it, sure, its a problem to be overcome, but its not an insurmountable problem. Can't the Royal Air Force work out a shower roster nowadays?

Er Al, it was your 0720 premise that I was shooting at. You seem to have accepted my argument and shot your own full of holes.

Your point about an 0720 start was to avoid the loss of mission productive time. By staging PE during the working day, the only feasible way if it is a duty, must reduce the available mission-orientated workforce. As MJ said, the task must reduce by 3-4 unit working hours per week - about 10% or the manpower must be increased by 11%.

An increase is neither achievable nor policitally acceptable. A reduced task is not politically acceptable therefore we need more physical fitness to ensure we remain supple and flexible as flexibility is th ekey to air power.

[Al R]

Maple,

Being fit to do your job isn't black and white. Its a question of how you're able to do your job.. and that'll change from being what you're like on day #1 of an op, to day 30 on month #6. Thats where the benefit of fitness comes in.

[Al R]

Er Al, it was your 0720 premise that I was shooting at. You seem to have accepted my argument and shot your own full of holes.

Your point about an 0720 start was to avoid the loss of mission productive time. By staging PE during the working day, the only feasible way if it is a duty, must reduce the available mission-orientated workforce. As MJ said, the task must reduce by 3-4 unit working hours per week - about 10% or the manpower must be increased by 11%.

An increase is neither achievable nor policitally acceptable. A reduced task is not politically acceptable therefore we need more physical fitness to ensure we remain supple and flexible as flexibility is th ekey to air power.

Fine, we've moved the idea forward.. nothing wrong with that, and I'm happy to have my principle adjusted. But it can be done, can't it? Men don't have to use the showers in the gym for instance. I refuse to accept that any flying sqn cannot find 3 hours each week (and even as a Rock, I served on 2 of 'em) for organised fizz. However you allocate that time. I have to say too, I am not too bothered about the 'politically acceptable' side of things. Men join the military because of an ethos. That ethos is only degraded after they have been subject to cynical old sweats. And so the cycle continues.

We digress though. In principle, the idea is right. I imagine that not many young officers and JNCOs will be as archaic as to imagine that what was acceptable in 1980 is no longer the case. As usual, it'll be mainly the old gits whinging in the Mess about change.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

[Maple 01]

If that's so please let me know what punishment and remedial training will be forced on the racing snakes that aren’t up to ops - case in point the thinnies that can't cope with low temps or those who suffer 'sports injuries' that require others to fill their OOA slots

6 month tour - unless the world's gone mad (and I freely accept it as a possibility) the RAF generally does four month tours - therefore I suggest you're not one of HM's chosen people and therefore, like all fish-heads and pongos, not qualified to discus pie-eating limits in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps.

[Al R]

Many of my tours were 6 month jobbers, not all. But I typed '6', because it was my understanding that 6 months was going to be the norm for some for the future.

If skinnies can't handle low temperatures, thats a physiological state of fitness, and not a medical or physical one.. quite different. I was marched smartly to the g'room and locked away for many things.. being thin alas, was not one of them.

As to be not one of the chosen people, well. I was one of those who was creamed off after recruit training and considered suitable for enhanced conditioning. So I was sent off to the Depot at Catterick to do bunny hops around the airfield with a bed pack on my back at half past 4 in the morning, dressed in Number 1's and with best boots on. Thinking back, if they had asked me straight after if I wanted to downgrade to ohhh.. I don't know.. aircrew perhaps, I would probably have wrapped and gone for the easier option. But in those days they allowed you 5 minutes to compose your thoughts before the next beasting, so like an old fool, I stuck at it .

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Al R

Fine, we've moved the idea forward.. nothing wrong with that, and I'm happy to have my principle adjusted.

Men don't have to use the showers in the gym for instance.

In principle, the idea is right.

Where there's a will, there's a way.

Men in SLA certainly could use their quarter showers which of course obviates the need for a large changing room, more showers and ideally lockers. It will however add to the time away from work.

Then a proportion, say 5-10% will be female and we have that other oxymoron, female and quick shower.

I agree the principle is right and indeed the Typhoon Sqns have gyms at the sqn I believe which is of course the right way to go - new aircraft, new century, new ideas and new kit.

The bottom line though is that extra 3+ hours. There is only so much face time available in PSF. With JPA more face time would have been available (maybe) except that the staff were cut here.

There are lots of digital posts where a one hour straight absence is not that easy to manage. Once, as well as my day job I lost half my lunch break covering a shift worker. The idea of doing gym in lunch hour appeals to some but our young, and fitter, airmen do need their regular calorie intake.

Something has to give and at least something is the recognition that we can afford to reduce the non-operational task if we want a fitter Air Force.