ATPL Information
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Thanks for the replies.
I was going to do everything well within 3 years (about 6 months!) but I've just had an offer that I can't refuse so its just one more tour..........
I was going to do everything well within 3 years (about 6 months!) but I've just had an offer that I can't refuse so its just one more tour..........
Join Date: Jul 2003
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ATPL & Ground Tours
Ok Guys,
Further question to re-cycle the thread - if you are on a ground tour after gaining the ATPL through the Qualified Service Pilot route, what happens to its validity?
This assumes of course the lack of an annual military IRT to keep it all ticking along....
My guess is that the IR expires the licence will remain extant for 5 years after which it expires, requiring a complete re-issue including exams??
How easy is it to get a job with an ATPL in this situation (i.e no flying for 2 years)??
Further question to re-cycle the thread - if you are on a ground tour after gaining the ATPL through the Qualified Service Pilot route, what happens to its validity?
This assumes of course the lack of an annual military IRT to keep it all ticking along....
My guess is that the IR expires the licence will remain extant for 5 years after which it expires, requiring a complete re-issue including exams??
How easy is it to get a job with an ATPL in this situation (i.e no flying for 2 years)??
The ATPL remains valid as long as you have a valid Class Rating and medical. This can be a SEP Class Rating as a minimum.
Quite why anyone with an ATPL should limit their employment prospects and airline seniority with a chair-polishing tour is beyond me. The airlines don't give a stuff whether you're a Flt Lt or a Gp Capt - first in is the senior!
The IR can lapse for 5 years before things become tense; less than 5 years and it is included in your Type Rating training for your airline type - more than that and the IR Skill Test has to be with the CAA.
More than 7 years and it's exam time again - if you can find anyone who would actually want to employ you!
See LASORS - all prospective professional pilots should familiarise themselves with it and it's FFFFRREEEEE to download from the CAA website.
Quite why anyone with an ATPL should limit their employment prospects and airline seniority with a chair-polishing tour is beyond me. The airlines don't give a stuff whether you're a Flt Lt or a Gp Capt - first in is the senior!
The IR can lapse for 5 years before things become tense; less than 5 years and it is included in your Type Rating training for your airline type - more than that and the IR Skill Test has to be with the CAA.
More than 7 years and it's exam time again - if you can find anyone who would actually want to employ you!
See LASORS - all prospective professional pilots should familiarise themselves with it and it's FFFFRREEEEE to download from the CAA website.
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How does one renew the licence then?
Is it a paperwork exercise providing you have a valid IR?
What if your IR has lapsed? (Ground Tour scenario)
Or do you need to keep a valid Class rating with an annual skill check rather than an IR to enable auto-renewal??
What happens if your IR and class rating lapses (i.e no flying for in excess of a year)?
(Assuming Class I medical held and renewed every year).
Thanks in advance
Is it a paperwork exercise providing you have a valid IR?
What if your IR has lapsed? (Ground Tour scenario)
Or do you need to keep a valid Class rating with an annual skill check rather than an IR to enable auto-renewal??
What happens if your IR and class rating lapses (i.e no flying for in excess of a year)?
(Assuming Class I medical held and renewed every year).
Thanks in advance
I have a copy of LASORS but its much quicker to post here
Riiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhhtttttttttttttt.........
RTFM!!
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Rating Validity
If you have done your CPL/IR (frozen ATPL) and your IR has gone past its one year validity, you need not worry, so long as you have held a full procedural green in the last 5 years - link to LASORS Sect F here
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Sectio...LICOPTERS).pdf
Page 18 - Pre-requisites for training
The text reads:
"An applicant for the first type rating course for a MPA shall provide evidence that the following requirements have been met:-
b. hold a current and valid multi-engine instrument rating (aeroplanes). This is only a requirement for an initial MPA type rating and not subsequent type ratings. A UK QSP(A) who has held a Green Instrument Rating within the preceding 5 years is deemed to hold a 'current and valid' Instrument Rating".
Hope this helps.
GnP
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Sectio...LICOPTERS).pdf
Page 18 - Pre-requisites for training
The text reads:
"An applicant for the first type rating course for a MPA shall provide evidence that the following requirements have been met:-
b. hold a current and valid multi-engine instrument rating (aeroplanes). This is only a requirement for an initial MPA type rating and not subsequent type ratings. A UK QSP(A) who has held a Green Instrument Rating within the preceding 5 years is deemed to hold a 'current and valid' Instrument Rating".
Hope this helps.
GnP
"If you have done your CPL/IR (frozen ATPL) and your IR has gone past its one year validity, you need not worry, so long as you have held a full procedural green in the last 5 years"
By the letter of the text this implies you are good until 6 years after your last mil IRT (as the mil rating is valid for a year - is it 12 or 13 months?). Is this how it is accepted, or is it interpretted as 5 yrs from last IRT?
(I currently work overseas, but plan to return to UK, and the difference between 5 and 6 yrs could be crucial!)
By the letter of the text this implies you are good until 6 years after your last mil IRT (as the mil rating is valid for a year - is it 12 or 13 months?). Is this how it is accepted, or is it interpretted as 5 yrs from last IRT?
(I currently work overseas, but plan to return to UK, and the difference between 5 and 6 yrs could be crucial!)
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Sound Analysis or Just Plain Hope?
Further to my last - on a closer examination of the LASORS I believe the issue with a ground tour is as follows:
1. Licence Validity is 5 yrs - don't go for longer than 5 yrs without a valid IR(A) in order to preserve the licence validity.
2. IR(A) is only valid for a year - this will lapse if a military IRT is not flown annually to preserve the military type rating (or is used to help revalidate a civil rating).
However when it comes to applying for a job (assuming military IRT done within the last 5 yrs):
1. Licence is still valid
2. IR(A) requires renewal - iaw LASORS, a QSP(A) is considered to have a valid and current IR if he has flown a green IRT in the last 5 yrs, for the purposes of adding a type rating. ** Not sure how this fits in **
Albeit out of the flying game for a period of time, I believe (hope?!) one would meet the eligibility criteria for an airline job application after spending a couple of years on the ground pre-exit??
Guys,
Does my summary ring true, or am I kidding myself?
In other words is a ground tour prior to exit to the outside world a total killer when it comes to getting a job??
1. Licence Validity is 5 yrs - don't go for longer than 5 yrs without a valid IR(A) in order to preserve the licence validity.
2. IR(A) is only valid for a year - this will lapse if a military IRT is not flown annually to preserve the military type rating (or is used to help revalidate a civil rating).
However when it comes to applying for a job (assuming military IRT done within the last 5 yrs):
1. Licence is still valid
2. IR(A) requires renewal - iaw LASORS, a QSP(A) is considered to have a valid and current IR if he has flown a green IRT in the last 5 yrs, for the purposes of adding a type rating. ** Not sure how this fits in **
Albeit out of the flying game for a period of time, I believe (hope?!) one would meet the eligibility criteria for an airline job application after spending a couple of years on the ground pre-exit??
Guys,
Does my summary ring true, or am I kidding myself?
In other words is a ground tour prior to exit to the outside world a total killer when it comes to getting a job??
Can't see why a lapsed IR would be a problem - yr going do a type rating/IR on employment anyway. (Even if you change employer with a valid type rating you still do a type/IR for the new employer). There is no shortage of commercial pilots in the UK, but there is of pilots with plenty of hours. Hope this helps, DH
However practically....
Talked to the recruitment bloke at my company and an issue is current flying practice.
My company recruits only Zero Flight Time qualified peeps onto long haul aircraft and apart from experience on a multi over a certain weight requires current flying practice. The definition of which I don't have to hand.
Airbus for everybody else.
Talked to the recruitment bloke at my company and an issue is current flying practice.
My company recruits only Zero Flight Time qualified peeps onto long haul aircraft and apart from experience on a multi over a certain weight requires current flying practice. The definition of which I don't have to hand.
Airbus for everybody else.
Trainers in my company have commented on the fact that ex-RAF guys coming straight to the airline from a ground tour have found the training more difficult sometimes with extra hours being required.
Nothing insurmountable, but perhaps another reason to politely decline that ground tour!
Nothing insurmountable, but perhaps another reason to politely decline that ground tour!
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Has anyone used the walk in facility at Gatwick to submit all the required docs for an ATPL issue? I was wondering if it's worth a visit on the way back from the ME IR school - perhaps less of a faff than sending everything in the post and getting everything countersigned?
Regards,
Al
Regards,
Al
Walk in service is ok, but only if you have all the documents,MCC, all your logbook evidence ATPL skills test bla bla bla and a letter from your mum!
And it depends who's on the desk.
And it depends who's on the desk.
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walk-in has gotta be better than via post.
Caa lost my application with all my paperwork after sitting on it for 3 weeks. Had to fax everything to them again. Have spent hours on the phone trying to sort it out. Now nearly 6 weeks since being billed two hundred odd quid and still no licence.
As u can tell I am cool about it all
Caa lost my application with all my paperwork after sitting on it for 3 weeks. Had to fax everything to them again. Have spent hours on the phone trying to sort it out. Now nearly 6 weeks since being billed two hundred odd quid and still no licence.
As u can tell I am cool about it all
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IR Validity
Paul Chocks,
I believe it is the 6 yr option ie 5yrs from having had a Mil Green rating. Think actually that pans out to be 6yrs and 1 month from the date of the last rating assuming mil ratings are still valid for 13 months?
It was the position I was in when I left the Mil having got my ATPL inc IR yrs before jumping. I actually started the civvie OCU equivelant with a copy of LASORs and a letter from the CAA detailing the currency issues. The civvie company required a valid IR as a mandatory pre-employment tick and were happy with the paperwork trail I had.
Good luck.
I believe it is the 6 yr option ie 5yrs from having had a Mil Green rating. Think actually that pans out to be 6yrs and 1 month from the date of the last rating assuming mil ratings are still valid for 13 months?
It was the position I was in when I left the Mil having got my ATPL inc IR yrs before jumping. I actually started the civvie OCU equivelant with a copy of LASORs and a letter from the CAA detailing the currency issues. The civvie company required a valid IR as a mandatory pre-employment tick and were happy with the paperwork trail I had.
Good luck.
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I got out in 2004 and use my helicopter licence to pay the bills. I renewed my ATPL (A) last year and renewed my CAA multi engine IR last month in Florida. I flew 5.2 hours Seneca including a test, which cost me just over £1100 (flying only, you have to get there). Great instructor and great examiner, very basic aeroplane (DI and no HSI) but it worked. PM me if you want a contact. JT