PVR rates at 10 year high.
Thread Starter
PVR rates at 10 year high.
Manpower shortage as pressures of war drive troops to quit Forces
See: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2017699.ece
Mind you, I was watching Sky news on the hotel TV earlier and some underwhelming guvmint suit, Derek Twigg, was denying that retention was a problem....
He spoke with all the false sincerity of 'Comical Ali', but with none of the humour.
See: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2017699.ece
Mind you, I was watching Sky news on the hotel TV earlier and some underwhelming guvmint suit, Derek Twigg, was denying that retention was a problem....
He spoke with all the false sincerity of 'Comical Ali', but with none of the humour.
Red On, Green On
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between the woods and the water
Age: 24
Posts: 6,487
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
From the article:
"Since 2001, the Armed Forces have continuously operated above the highest level of activity envisaged in their defence planning assumptions, said the MPs. But despite the extra operational burden, the MoD has not boosted manning levels in that period."
"Since 2001, the Armed Forces have continuously operated above the highest level of activity envisaged in their defence planning assumptions, said the MPs. But despite the extra operational burden, the MoD has not boosted manning levels in that period."
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wilts
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PAS report can be accessed here: http://www.publications.parliament.u...m/cmpubacc.htm
Appears the RAF has a manning problem - these people get paid for this !!!
Nice to see the BBC reporting it as an Army problem.
Appears the RAF has a manning problem - these people get paid for this !!!
Nice to see the BBC reporting it as an Army problem.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Now based in Surrey for international Govt and Defense contractor.
Age: 54
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PVR statistic
Having just PVR'd (Terminal exit date next week) after XX years in, I thought that when I threw in the towel (for various reasons, all boring and to do with work life balance as married to forces person who was always away when I was at home etc etc - even having my wife take over from my post on det!??) I was surprised when I was told I could leave well within the required 12 month notice period as "manning isn't an issue at the moment".
Surprised to say the least then, when I was asked if there was anything the RAF could offer me to stay after my PVR had already been approved.... At this point I did ask for a guarantee that I would be posted within commutable distance of my wife but then I already knew the answer to that one..!
And now know my branch is undermanned....
But we're not overstretched. Oh no.
Surprised to say the least then, when I was asked if there was anything the RAF could offer me to stay after my PVR had already been approved.... At this point I did ask for a guarantee that I would be posted within commutable distance of my wife but then I already knew the answer to that one..!
And now know my branch is undermanned....
But we're not overstretched. Oh no.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
According to the Staish at Odious this glorious little slice of Hampshire has the lowest PVR rate in the RAF.
He didn't mention the rates of people who are just seeing out their present contract and not re-newing.
He didn't mention the rates of people who are just seeing out their present contract and not re-newing.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Purdey - ...then I suggest you read the responses again.
As a serving member I "might" find your comment offensive and out of touch. For you to suggest that any past or present serving member "might" "gloat" at the situation we are all facing is disappointing and I feel you have let yourself down.
What you will garner fom reading the responses is a reluctant but overwhelming notion of "we told you so". Those at the coalface know the "difficulties" all too well, yet there was a slight glimmer of light when the PAC validated a fact we are all aware of but the MoD denied. Hence an "I told you so" approach.
As a serving member I "might" find your comment offensive and out of touch. For you to suggest that any past or present serving member "might" "gloat" at the situation we are all facing is disappointing and I feel you have let yourself down.
What you will garner fom reading the responses is a reluctant but overwhelming notion of "we told you so". Those at the coalface know the "difficulties" all too well, yet there was a slight glimmer of light when the PAC validated a fact we are all aware of but the MoD denied. Hence an "I told you so" approach.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
I agree fully with what you say 'Chris Griffin'.
For too long those on the shop floor have said that these continued cutbacks will eventually bite yet it seems this has just been disregarded as 'whinging' by those towards the top (those right at the top must only hear "everything is great"). Unfortunately now the fears of the people who have to actually do the job (rather than the top-heavy 'management') are being realised.
Many of us who are heading for the door (I don't have much longer left) are saddened to see the services we put so much into and have so much pride in reduced to such a state, but for too long the MoD/government has taken advantage of the 'improvise adapt and overcome' nature of many of us who serve, to a point where it seems that this is being relied on rather than having to go to the expense of supporting us properly.
Enough is enough, and whilst I don't wish any ill on my colleagues I leave behind unfortuantely if the continued neglect of the services by the Minister for Defence & Scotland and other members of this government continues I forsee something terrible happening.
For too long those on the shop floor have said that these continued cutbacks will eventually bite yet it seems this has just been disregarded as 'whinging' by those towards the top (those right at the top must only hear "everything is great"). Unfortunately now the fears of the people who have to actually do the job (rather than the top-heavy 'management') are being realised.
Many of us who are heading for the door (I don't have much longer left) are saddened to see the services we put so much into and have so much pride in reduced to such a state, but for too long the MoD/government has taken advantage of the 'improvise adapt and overcome' nature of many of us who serve, to a point where it seems that this is being relied on rather than having to go to the expense of supporting us properly.
Enough is enough, and whilst I don't wish any ill on my colleagues I leave behind unfortuantely if the continued neglect of the services by the Minister for Defence & Scotland and other members of this government continues I forsee something terrible happening.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: england
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
why, yet again, does it take a newpapar article and a TV titbit to highlight what 99% of the forces already know? 
It's the same as when they were paying the "simpler" consultants 100K a week (read one trick ponys who think the RAF is a Toyota factory
) to "Lean" (read completely F**K UP) the RAF's maintainance policy...... The upper management made an absolute hash of it, due to YET AGAIN failing to listen to the guys who do the job week in week out, and surprisingly actually know just a little bit about what they do and how to improve it..... How the "consultants" nonsence EVER even got considered is beyond me, and it has taken 3 years for a secret wiltshire airbase with turboprops to get even halfway back to a decent set-up, and we still suffer fallout of the mess that was made, due to not listening to the worker ants I think that the management fail to see the problem as the forces in general have a very "can do" attitude, and will strive to do the best job possible whatever happens.
Also when we get big wig visitors, there is a noise and movements ban, and of course a mad workplace clean-up, so whenever a visit happens, the Pan is empty, it is silent, and you have a crew room full of people doing nothing, so obviously we have got too much manpower
It won't be long now before everyone looses interest, it is obvious that the wave of people leaving is only going to get worse, recruitment is down, and not looking likely to pick up anytime soon..... It unfortunatly of thier own doing, as our benefits and conditions of living and service have been constantly eroded, to the point where it just isn't worth the hassle anymore, civvys get better terms and conditions for doing the SAME job as blue suits, without the chance of getting shot at. I can only speak for the Engineering trades, but even in the short time I have been in the RAF, it is obvious that our skill base is being severley eroded by contracting out work, and dumbing down new recruits training.....
And yet, those in the Ivory towers will follow the traditional route, deny anything is wrong, say infact it is actually better than expected, and bury thier heads in the sand......
It needs sorting out, and soon
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Crucible
Age: 55
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not just the PVR rates that are the problem but also the number of people who are not taking the option of extending their service.
Unfortunately these people are never included in any stats.
If I was running a large company that could not get enough new recruits to fill the gaps left by people coming to the end of their contract whom I could not persuade to stay, and was also faced by a vast number of people choosing to terminate their contract early, I may begin to suspect I had a problem.
Unfortunately our lords and masters don't seem to agree
Unfortunately these people are never included in any stats.
If I was running a large company that could not get enough new recruits to fill the gaps left by people coming to the end of their contract whom I could not persuade to stay, and was also faced by a vast number of people choosing to terminate their contract early, I may begin to suspect I had a problem.
Unfortunately our lords and masters don't seem to agree
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How do they know what the PVR rate is.
I read recently that JPA was not capable of providing the bean counters with the data they need.
The old system (What ever that was) no longer exists.
Perhaps it was 'Leaned Out'.
I read recently that JPA was not capable of providing the bean counters with the data they need.
The old system (What ever that was) no longer exists.
Perhaps it was 'Leaned Out'.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The irony of 'Lean' is that this was something industry adopted many decades ago and has since canned. It is little more than brainstorming, and the result is an operation that leaves no fat whatsoever in the system. It is now common knowledge that 'running on the red' is no way to operate!
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DASA collected the PVR rates before JPA.
However even when DASA collected the figures anyone who PVR'd after completing 22yrs but before reaching 30yrs or 55yrs did not count as a retention problem, as they had completed their 22yrs engagement. This is plainly stupid, as anyone who quits before his or her current engagement is complete IS a retention problem.
However even when DASA collected the figures anyone who PVR'd after completing 22yrs but before reaching 30yrs or 55yrs did not count as a retention problem, as they had completed their 22yrs engagement. This is plainly stupid, as anyone who quits before his or her current engagement is complete IS a retention problem.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Angleterre
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know of 2 WSOp (ALM) who have 'good' civilian job offers on the table and are told that it will take over 12 months to escape by PVR. Both are 22 year+
Surely PMA are taking the urine here, for a precident must have been set many times over. Although I hear that the Chinny mate who handed in his ID card on the way out is now 'Mad' and therfore to be medically discharged.
Despite the 5 year hold on PAS guys PVRing being utter bolleax, I still suspect that Apr 08 will be the threashold for many a PVR.
We could stay in and get:
1) Job satisfaction.
2) 3 'get you home leave warrants' per year.
3) A Doctor or Dentist when you need one.
4) Appreciation for a job well done.
5) Secure home life.
6) Free food and accomodation when sent on a Course.
7) Ditto when posted away from 'home'.
8) A career path.
...and that is before I put any real thought into it.
If PMA are entitled to demand their final 12 months, then there is no real differance between PVR and NGR. JPA will still not accept a PVR, it has to be done 'manually' by the Chief Clerk.
Surely PMA are taking the urine here, for a precident must have been set many times over. Although I hear that the Chinny mate who handed in his ID card on the way out is now 'Mad' and therfore to be medically discharged.
Despite the 5 year hold on PAS guys PVRing being utter bolleax, I still suspect that Apr 08 will be the threashold for many a PVR.
We could stay in and get:
1) Job satisfaction.
2) 3 'get you home leave warrants' per year.
3) A Doctor or Dentist when you need one.
4) Appreciation for a job well done.
5) Secure home life.
6) Free food and accomodation when sent on a Course.
7) Ditto when posted away from 'home'.
8) A career path.
...and that is before I put any real thought into it.
If PMA are entitled to demand their final 12 months, then there is no real differance between PVR and NGR. JPA will still not accept a PVR, it has to be done 'manually' by the Chief Clerk.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: england
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are you for real or taking the mick?? I can't decide! Honestly 
!!
I quote:
We could stay in and get:
1) Job satisfaction. - To a degree, but always unappreciated, and being pushed harder and harder all the time
2) 3 'get you home leave warrants' per year.- Only in your first 3 years of service
3) A Doctor or Dentist when you need one.- Who know F*** All and are responsible for many people suffering YEARS of pain due to their ineptitude...I know of at LEAST 3 people that have had very simple problems mis-diagnosed and ignored, and had them sorted by an NHS doctor almost instantly. Also, why do appointments get easier to obtain the higher up the rank structure you get?
4) Appreciation for a job well done. ??? By your immediate supierior maybe, but not a lot else. The government can't even be f**ked to buy us the correct equiptment to keep us safe in warzones like body armour and fuel tank foam to name but two items.......unless SERIOUSLY bullied by concerned relatives and colleagues of fallen servicement
5) Secure home life.??? Dets to warzones 3-4 times a year is hardly the easiest things for loved ones parents/partners/kids to deal with is it? Rent for quarters being "bought into line" with civvy street, most quarters worse than abandonded council houses, singlys live WORSE than most prisoners
6) Free food and accomodation when sent on a Course.?? Nope, have to pay for food now.
7) Ditto when posted away from 'home'. Only in field conditions
8) A career path. Yes maybe- if all our jobs are not given to civvys who get paid more for doing the same job
!!I quote:
We could stay in and get:
1) Job satisfaction. - To a degree, but always unappreciated, and being pushed harder and harder all the time
2) 3 'get you home leave warrants' per year.- Only in your first 3 years of service
3) A Doctor or Dentist when you need one.- Who know F*** All and are responsible for many people suffering YEARS of pain due to their ineptitude...I know of at LEAST 3 people that have had very simple problems mis-diagnosed and ignored, and had them sorted by an NHS doctor almost instantly. Also, why do appointments get easier to obtain the higher up the rank structure you get?
4) Appreciation for a job well done. ??? By your immediate supierior maybe, but not a lot else. The government can't even be f**ked to buy us the correct equiptment to keep us safe in warzones like body armour and fuel tank foam to name but two items.......unless SERIOUSLY bullied by concerned relatives and colleagues of fallen servicement
5) Secure home life.??? Dets to warzones 3-4 times a year is hardly the easiest things for loved ones parents/partners/kids to deal with is it? Rent for quarters being "bought into line" with civvy street, most quarters worse than abandonded council houses, singlys live WORSE than most prisoners
6) Free food and accomodation when sent on a Course.?? Nope, have to pay for food now.
7) Ditto when posted away from 'home'. Only in field conditions
8) A career path. Yes maybe- if all our jobs are not given to civvys who get paid more for doing the same job
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Temporarily missing from the Joe Louis Arena
Posts: 2,131
Received 27 Likes
on
16 Posts
Kengineer-130 - I think the point 'Yozzer' was making is that we could if these hadn't been taken away, hence some of the reasons many are leaving.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Far from the madding crowd
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PVR in the Groundtrades
As an Eng Tec A I have submitted my PVR, I have completed 22yrs and I am now on LOS 30, I have a firm job offer, I am being forced to wait the 12months PVR time, luckly with negotiation the company are holding the position open for me.
If I was an Eng Tech P, I could be out tomorrow if it were needed. I am leaving as there are no job incentives any more, no good postings, they all seem to be going to the IT trades and coppers now (if you look at the Chief Clerks Bulletin). There is no more 'carrot' to be offered as an incentive to make people work with the added inconvienences the within the mob only 'stick' now.
I will miss the RAF for what it was, not for what it has become.
If I was an Eng Tech P, I could be out tomorrow if it were needed. I am leaving as there are no job incentives any more, no good postings, they all seem to be going to the IT trades and coppers now (if you look at the Chief Clerks Bulletin). There is no more 'carrot' to be offered as an incentive to make people work with the added inconvienences the within the mob only 'stick' now.
I will miss the RAF for what it was, not for what it has become.