PVR rates at 10 year high.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Kengineer,

Nail..... meet hammer....... hammer meet nail........... BANG! Good Job!

Advo

[45 before POL]

Yozzer...the 2 ALM's you were referring to. If they have the job offers in writting they can push for earlier release....just takes a bit of balls to do......I was in the same position they said 12 months, i needed to leave in 7 and a half as had job offer(in writing) A chat to my 1st R.O and stating what legal implications this has and a phone call from him...left me with what i wanted Its a case of being prepared to push for it.

[An Teallach]

The BBC comments page is burning here.

[funflier44]

I served for far too long in the RAF, when I joined I was proud to serve and be associated with a respected organisation that shrived to do its best, where everyone was respected and nearly everyone, looked after each other. Rules were interpreted to fit the situation and mistakes were admitted and lessons learned without too many recriminations.
The RAF I left this year was a demoralised one of short termism, only think of number one, sh*t on your mates to get on, over the top PC and lack of support from the grown ups (it might halt their progress). There were exceptions to this but unfortunately they were few and far between.
There were some excellent guys and girls doing great jobs and putting a lot of extra hours to get the job done but were they recognised? How many times was their work used or signed off by their boss to gain brownie points?
I think somewhere along the line we lost our sense of pride and our identity and became corporate beings driven by the bean counters and the adminers.
But then this is what has happened in the rest of the country so the service is reflecting the community it serves.
This was not meant to be a slight on great organisation I was proud to have served just to be a comment on the state of the country and the lack of leadership and moral guidance we have had for some time.
I don't blame the people PVRing, the caring sharing RAF organisation did very little in the way of any welfare to my family. In all the time I spent away during my service my wife and children received little or no support from the RAF, in fact I'm not sure they ever acknowledged their existence.
Rant over.

[An Teallach]

I think somewhere along the line we lost our sense of pride and our identity and became corporate beings driven by the bean counters and the adminers.

Believe me, the types you speak of are quite content to crap on the Adminers as well. It made pulling the fast-track yellow and black almost bearable after a CO who wet himself whenever I was off station lectured me that I didn't need to do all this - I was dealing with 3 bereaved families. The 3 Servicemen concerned were not, of course, under his command and the work would not reflect on his career.

[Widger]

Just like North Sea Cod stocks, there comes a point when a Service reaches critical mass, when enough people have left, this creates an intolerable burden on the rest and they leave as well. I note in the news that the Royal Marines have been notified to get ready to go back to Afghanistan in the autumn!

[Pontius Navigator]

Yes the rot set in with the Cold War Peace Dividend which might have been a valid exercise. The failure has been to recognise that a 'small' peacetime force in being might be suitable as a deterent but that the force needed to hold, fight and win is much larger.

In WW1, in WW2, in Korea, in Suez we had to mobilise reserves, conscript civilians and reach a war footing.

In the Falklands, being only a short conflict, we were able to just about manage with our exisiting force in being. We were even able to mount ceremonial and air shows helped no doubt by the distance to the islands and the lack of sea lift.

The signal failure for GW2 was the failure to plan for peace. The failure in Afghanistan was one of blind hope over historical precendent. How Dr John can look himself in the mirror each morning I do not know.

What for the future? Do we stop trying to win in Afghanistan for the moment and instead 'hold' while we prepare? Or do we realise that even the Russian Bear left with a bloody nose?

They had a bloody nose as the Mujahadeen had an effective logisitics tail. We are possibly getting hit too as that logisitics tail is still effective and there is little we can do about it.

[wokkameister]

Pontious,

I agree with many of your sentiments, but although Iraq may well be a lost cause, Afghanistan is far from lost.
There may come a time in the future when your comments are apt, but that time is not now.
It is true that as an op, combined with Iraq it is stretching the forces to the absolute limit (and beyond in a number of areas), but there is progress being made and to suggest otherwise is misleading.

TTFN

WM

[unclenelli]

At my section, we should have a Cpl and SAC per shift and are established for 5 Cpls and 5 SACs to cover 2D, 2N, 4off, 2 on leave (which is a legal shift pattern iaw European Working Time Directive) - 1 Cpl & 2 SACs posted-out by the end of July with no replacements (which would take over 3mths to train up) and 1 Cpl, 1 SAC on det for 4mths (make that 6-7mths including IRT/IDT/CCS prep and PODL) = 3 Cpls, 2 SACs = ILLEGAL manning for Cpls and IMPOSSIBLE manning for SACs as 1 is currently a U/T and then going on to permanent nights for at least a month with no days off - 30+ straight nights in a row!!!!!!! or Cpls doing SACs job = 2D, 2N, 1Off (sleep day, so not really a day off), 1SAC shift
Hoping someone is posted-in in July before we look at Oct/Nov/Dec Rosters
We could cancel leave, but what leave should we cancel - It's now July & I've not had any since my own PODL in January!! and 2 other CPLs were also OOA as well, 1 before and 1 after me!!!
As well as the fact that I work 150miles away from home due to an unwanted posting in 2005 (I was resigned to working through the commuting for a few years when I got the 4days off, but when the shifts get this bad, I won't see home for months - it's like being OOA again, within the UK!!!!), its no wonder that people are voting with their feet!!
Go Figure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What we need is more money - years ago!!!!!!!! or withdraw from Iraq/Afganistan now in order to create a UK defence force capable of defending UK against the NHS - If it's not MRSA & C-Dif that'll kill you, it's the doctors

Visit www.johnsmeaton.com - pledge-a-pint

[Report Line]

Oh well here goes - a bit of spleen venting!


I had promised myself that I would try to maintain a positive attitude about continued life in the Service and in many respects the positive still outweighs the negative. However, I do get tired of people (not least of which are our airships) who tell us that we are really important - no Air Force without the personnel in it - greatest asset is our manpower (and lady power of course). All this is coupled with some monumental 'improvements' to compensate for increased operational tempo and prove that we are loved. Namely:

Modern Housing solutions DHE et al (done on the cheap?).

JPA (recognised by the old PMA to be a complete goat - done on the cheap?). Apparently, the Army aren't having any problems with it. I think this is because the chief clerk enters all the data for the troops.

PMA reorg and union with HQ STC to make Air Command (resulting in significant staff cuts both mil and civ - personnel service levels now non-existant - done on the cheap?)

Leaning of Defence Medical Services (no more sick parades go to nearest A&E - yeah right!). Try and get a dental appt if you aren't going on ops.

Pay as you dine (jury is out but it seems to be faltering through profit margin issues for the contractor - done on the cheap?).

I don't have the coherent staffing case to back up any of the above but it is a perception issue isn't it? If people feel screw+d then they probably are - if you know what I mean.

I think the kit issue has been sorted and am content to go to whatever 'Stan' they want me to. CEA still seems like a good deal. Free Gym membership - can't be bad. Morale and welfare on ops has come forward in leaps and bounds and the Ops bonus is top. Some initiatives are being targeted where needed and there is a listening ear to those areas of the mil with serious problems. Many of the old sweats I talk to who did extended Cold War service feel quite miffed at missing out on all of the action. Operational environment could be viewed as being attractive - just food for thought. Forget about the politics and politicians and its what we joined up for isn't it? I know there are people within the system that care and who are doing their utmost to turn things around - may take some time - oil tankers and stuff. Unlike the good old days which gave us arse widening stability we now face sunken cheek wide eyed dynamic change - cool isn't it? To those with the power (OK staff jobs) keep up the hard work and perhaps try and work on the perception thing - perception is reality etc. Get that wrong and folks will continue to walk.

Hope I didn't upset too many of you.

[wazz'n'zoom]

Interesting to note it's not just the minions leaving. The boss of 22 gp, you know the ex Pongo turned Crab has PVR'd, out in a month no less. Also the top Matelot waffoo, old Sir Adrian is leaving early. Could it be the draw of fat salary UKMFTS jobs or jumping off before the rotors slow down too much. To be honest all the funs gone and I don't blame them. Roll on Civvy street this year.

[In Tor Wot]

Understand there are a couple more in the Monastery of Indifference as well at the starred level.

Wonder who's going to be the next DAS then?

[toddbabe]

Wokka I guarantee you we will not "win" in Afghanistan! it is just a matter of when we leave after the Government and people eventually lose the will.
The bloody withdrawl of troops from Iraq will inevitably help a bit after first leaving Iraq in a holy mess but unless we pull out of Afghanistan as well then I can only see it going exactly the same way.

[6Z3]

Also the top Matelot waffoo, old Sir Adrian is leaving early

I think you'll find it's just plain old Adrian, or AJ to his mates; which might explain his move.

[Wessexman]

"During my Service career, there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of RAF personnel, whilst at the same time there has been a substantial increase in the sustained level of out of area operations. This, allied with the lack of appropriate directed investment in aircraft, infrastructure and support services, has not enabled the front line to keep pace effectively with the increase in the level of effort necessary to meet operational requirements. As a result, I can see that the morale of our personnel, the cornerstone of our military ethos and effectiveness is being whittled away to the point where now, the loyalty and the ‘raison d’etre’ which has for so long underpinned our operations can no longer be relied upon as it was in the past."
Just one paragraph of my pvr letter, submitted some months ago, which highlights several specific problem areas that will need to be addressed to counter the 'outflow' of personnel. Fellas-I know that some of us have tried and are trying to change the Ts & Cs. But with a max 1 % uplift (possibly) in the defence budget, No such thing as UORs (so the current budget pays for everything extra in the ME), and all of the defence budget having been allocated and then some for the next x(many) years there will be no extra money! But first and foremost-those in positions of power need to look downwards-not upwards and start doing their primary job-look after their own little bit of the org and their people without the desire to look up with tongue hanging out and panting for promotion like a little puppy. It saddens me when good senior guys turn political all too early in their career and spout utter cr@p to sound placating and as if everything is ok.
I am both mad at the way the RAF has rolled over and accepted the erosion of standards and sad to say goodbye to the Service and her people that I joined a long time ago.

[nigegilb]

Very well said Wessexman. You have recognised the problem and also recognised that it is not being dealt with in an honest way.

The managers, (I no longer use the word leadership), who manage the military are trying to manage their way out of a problem that does not officially exist.

CDS Sir Jock Stirrup- CDS himself describes this as "stretched, but not overstretched".

They are reducing manpower in Iraq, NI and Bosnia. The problem, however, will not go away and we are months away from crisis. As Toddbabe points out, the crisis will be Afg and a crisis of momentum created by the rush to the door.

CDS, too little too late.

[PingDit]

The Forces as always, will give 100% to whatever we're tasked with.
I see the major problem at governmental level. Could it possibly be that the current government doesn't have a single MP with any military background?

Sorry I forgot our own man in defence... Lance Corporal Des Browne....

PingDit

[nigegilb]

The part time Defence Secretary is so inexperienced he relies enormously on those who advise him. When the CDS goes around saying that the military is stretched but not overstretched it is hardly surprising that UK Armed Forces have endured a serier of manpower cutbacks at a time of unsurpassed operational deployments. These same Chiefs of Staff have agreed cutbacks to military hospitals, strike aircraft, infantry, the list goes on.

It is only when the Parliamentary Defence Committee confronts the MoD Heads with the facts, that the likes of CDS put a time limit for the "stretched, but not overstretched" condition to continue.

His answer?... Two years.

Any takers on the state of the RN, Army and RAF by then?

[BEagle]

From BBC News http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6909550.stm

The head of the Army has warned that British troops are so stretched that the nation's military reserves are "almost non-existent".

In the memo, leaked to the Daily Telegraph, General Sir Richard Dannatt said the Army was undermanned because of operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

He also said vital equipment was being used "at the edge of sustainability".

A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said the forces were working hard but the current situation was "manageable".

General Dannatt also said the Army has "almost no capability to react to the unexpected".

Just what WILL it take for those useless liars in government to admit that things have now reached a critical point with our underfunded and overstretched Armed Forces.

[dallas]

Originally Posted by nigegilb

When the CDS goes around saying that the military is stretched but not overstretched...

Except overstretch isn't quantifiable, it's a matter of opinion. If we're continuing to fight and support two wars, carry on most major exercises (Red Flag, Medman etc) and field role demos at air shows, with the exception of a few occasional periods of unplanned unserviceability, I think CDS is broadly right to say we're not overstretched.

But if we start taking casualties on a daily basis due to a lack of properly equipped people on the ground, a lack of air cover and all manner of other components needed to properly sustain 2 wars, only then are we truly overstretched.

But, the essential bit here is the forecast. With increasing numbers of experienced personnel leaving - whatever their motives - and recruitment particularly slow, we are certainly headed towards overstretch and the complacency that 'stretched not overstretched' sometimes causes is the biggest danger to our military effort in the future. As Dannatt and others have said, the current tempo is unsustainable ad infinitum and that is the headline our leadership, the press and the public need to grasp and act upon, by fundamentally reviewing defence, today.

Unfortunately I have a nasty feeling I'll be saying I told you so.