Respect and gratitude for the military
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Here's an idea...
Bin hats with working dress. Working uniform does change, after all, to echo civilian attire - witness the ever-changing RAF woolen pullover.
So, to save the cringing embarrassment of hat-on/hat-off moments, not to mention the potential FOD hazard, bin the things.
Save a few pennies into the bargain.
Bin hats with working dress. Working uniform does change, after all, to echo civilian attire - witness the ever-changing RAF woolen pullover.
So, to save the cringing embarrassment of hat-on/hat-off moments, not to mention the potential FOD hazard, bin the things.
Save a few pennies into the bargain.
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Vicky Pollard
Yer but, no but, I dont believe you just said that.....
Why don't we all start wearing hoodies - no fod hazard there
The whole point of wearing uniform is to distinguish you from those that don't while at the same time identifying clearly which organisation you belong to (DPM 'you can't see me' suit excepted of course).
Working uniform does change, after all, to echo civilian attire
The whole point of wearing uniform is to distinguish you from those that don't while at the same time identifying clearly which organisation you belong to (DPM 'you can't see me' suit excepted of course).
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A few really good points raised here.
I've just got back from the States and the prevailing attitude is still support the troops, 100%, despite what crap decisions the Lords and Masters make. The American public now seem to be making the distinction between the actual people who commit to serve their country and the decision makers who put them in harms way.
I was at public events in the last 3 weeks where the host would make the crowd show their appreciation for the people of the USA and UK military.
What C130 Techie said strikes a chord. I remember being treated like royalty by the American public and being extended every privilege they possibly could, whilst being treated like s#!t back home.
I've just got back from the States and the prevailing attitude is still support the troops, 100%, despite what crap decisions the Lords and Masters make. The American public now seem to be making the distinction between the actual people who commit to serve their country and the decision makers who put them in harms way.
I was at public events in the last 3 weeks where the host would make the crowd show their appreciation for the people of the USA and UK military.
What C130 Techie said strikes a chord. I remember being treated like royalty by the American public and being extended every privilege they possibly could, whilst being treated like s#!t back home.
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Big Bear stated:- Unfortunately, some of the previous posts are quite correct in stating that we 'hid away' during the 70s and 80s.
The reason for this fact was down to security as a result of the Northern Ireland situation. Prior to the the late 1960s many enlisted Service personnel would wear uniform when travelling home on leave and more often than not this would assist them in obtaining lifts to wherever they were travelling to. As the NI situation got worse orders were given that personnel should not wear uniform when travelling on public transport etc. I recall that at one time similar orders were given for Service personnel not to wear uniform, or to wear a civillian coat or sweater over the service dress when travelling to and from work, in BAOR at that time this was a somewhat bizarre order as the car one was travelling in had British Forces Germany registration plates which readily identified the driver as a member,or dependant of a member, of the British Military Forces.
The reason for this fact was down to security as a result of the Northern Ireland situation. Prior to the the late 1960s many enlisted Service personnel would wear uniform when travelling home on leave and more often than not this would assist them in obtaining lifts to wherever they were travelling to. As the NI situation got worse orders were given that personnel should not wear uniform when travelling on public transport etc. I recall that at one time similar orders were given for Service personnel not to wear uniform, or to wear a civillian coat or sweater over the service dress when travelling to and from work, in BAOR at that time this was a somewhat bizarre order as the car one was travelling in had British Forces Germany registration plates which readily identified the driver as a member,or dependant of a member, of the British Military Forces.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Some good ideas here
TopBunker said:
Was a time at the main operational HQ, name slips my mind, when the rule was no hats outside. This saved an awful lot of arm waving and saved wg cdrs embarrassment if they miscounted and saluted another wg cdr.
Ascension only the 3 sqn ldrs, the major, the 2.5 and the staish wore hats.
Then of course I remember when we adopted woolly pulleys vice the bomber jacket, even M&S started selling a civvie version, but times move on.
Big Bear said:
Another cracking idea. Especially if they have a front pouch, saves wearing gloves.
Very true. We could wear the appropriate service colour and have EAW badges etc woven in to help espirit de corps.
Hoveronly
This is only getting better. Very green. Shorts are a good idea too with global warming and bike riding. But better than the positie's pants, how about those lovely posing pouches used by the PEd staff?
And to really keep up with changing fashion, how about we all wear that ubiquitous European fashion - the polo shirt. As these are so cheap we could have sqn ones, flight ones, informal ones with unit zaps etc. Why, we could even have heritage type ones with wings embroidered on.
They would all go with my Royal Air Force baseball cap. Oh, b
r, we started off with no hats. Still, back to front would keep the sun off my neck.
Oh, we already have polo shirts with wings?
TopBunker said:
Bin hats with working dress. Working uniform does change, after all, to echo civilian attire - witness the ever-changing RAF woolen pulloven
Ascension only the 3 sqn ldrs, the major, the 2.5 and the staish wore hats.
Then of course I remember when we adopted woolly pulleys vice the bomber jacket, even M&S started selling a civvie version, but times move on.
Big Bear said:
Why don't we all start wearing hoodies - no fod hazard there
wearing uniform is to distinguish you from those that don't while at the same time identifying clearly which organisation you belong to
Hoveronly
to get all RAF servicemen to wear a postmans uniform! Whilst you're there, give them a bike as well
And to really keep up with changing fashion, how about we all wear that ubiquitous European fashion - the polo shirt. As these are so cheap we could have sqn ones, flight ones, informal ones with unit zaps etc. Why, we could even have heritage type ones with wings embroidered on.
They would all go with my Royal Air Force baseball cap. Oh, b
r, we started off with no hats. Still, back to front would keep the sun off my neck.Oh, we already have polo shirts with wings?
Alba Gu Brath
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how about those lovely posing pouches used by the PEd staff?
.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Big Tudor, in these days of EO I thought the shorts might appeal to a wider audience 
if you get my meaning.
However in a non-PC way, I think the ladies fill the RH rather well too.
if you get my meaning.However in a non-PC way, I think the ladies fill the RH rather well too.
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I was serving in a NATO post in Denmark in the mid-90s. One of my very good friends a USAF major was retiring on the American "up or out" system. About 20 of us plus wives were invited to his retirement ceremony in the HQ's theatre. The place was decked out with the stars and stripes and at one lecturn, another major read out a valedictory letter from Bill Clinton (obviously the computer-generated variety). At another lecturn the senior US officer (a colonel) then delivered a very warm speech covering my mate's achievements and then conveyed the heartfelt gratutude of the American people. He was then presented with what I think the Americans call a shadow box, an oak-framed glass case containing the Stars and Stripes in one half and a montage of his badges of rank and medals on the other. Over the top maybe, but it brought a lump to my throat I can tell you.
Having recently retired after 33 years and endured the ignominy of surrendering my 1250 to a less than interested SAC, I reflected on that experience in Denmark. It brought home to me the genuine respect the American people have for their military and the utter disdain which certain sectors of the British public have for ours.
Having recently retired after 33 years and endured the ignominy of surrendering my 1250 to a less than interested SAC, I reflected on that experience in Denmark. It brought home to me the genuine respect the American people have for their military and the utter disdain which certain sectors of the British public have for ours.
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Once, at Lossie, I was filling up at the nearest petrol station to the camp, a BP station, and someone thought I was a BP tanker driver.
Our camouflage is so good that we can pass for invisible.
How about nice prominent BUMPER stickers on our cars so the guards can just wave us through or bring back the FLY NAVY, SAIL AIR FORCE, or xxxx ARMY
Only problem with that is the Air Force don't have any boats any more.
Our camouflage is so
good that we can pass for invisible. How about nice prominent BUMPER stickers on our cars so the guards can just wave us through or bring back the FLY NAVY, SAIL AIR FORCE, or xxxx ARMY
Only problem with that is the Air Force don't have any boats any more.
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I think one of our problems in UK is that the civilian population has become too used to the almost complete lack of discipline both personal and collective. I am often criticised for being 'far too military' My current riposte is that it is the only public service that still works in this country.
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Currently residing in RAF Lincolnshire, an RN uniform causes confusion and puzzlement. I have been mistaken for everything from a traffic warden to a stripper to an American service person!? Whilst in the States was mistaken for an airline pilot.....
On a flight back from the US on Mr Branson's finest the chief air hostess did pass her personal thanks to the UK Servicemen on board, although that may have been to do with the lads keeping her company at the back on the overnight flight!
Recently, whilst walking through the town (with appropriate headwear!) received a 'Hello Sailor!' as the only form of recognition, at least it was the right service!
Soddim - have also been described as 'too military' although I took it as a complement.
On a flight back from the US on Mr Branson's finest the chief air hostess did pass her personal thanks to the UK Servicemen on board, although that may have been to do with the lads keeping her company at the back on the overnight flight!
Recently, whilst walking through the town (with appropriate headwear!) received a 'Hello Sailor!' as the only form of recognition, at least it was the right service!
Soddim - have also been described as 'too military' although I took it as a complement.
I tried many times to write up my feelings on this in a way that wouldn't cause offence, but I couldn't.
We stare because you are unknown; rare; usually invisible. This is not an unreasonable reaction; nor is the reason for it our fault.
If you were ever to have a recruitment problem, it would be because the forces are a complete unknown into which to throw yourself so irrevocably. Most schoolchildren have never exchanged a word with a military officer. Ever.
Far from criticising the idea of painting the logo on the side of the aircraft, as has happened elsewhere on this forum, you should be painting the logo as big and bright as you can on more or less every available surface, encouraging people to be seen in uniform, etc., however unseemly it may appear. You're competing with X-boxes and sports events, like it or not.
Phil
We stare because you are unknown; rare; usually invisible. This is not an unreasonable reaction; nor is the reason for it our fault.
If you were ever to have a recruitment problem, it would be because the forces are a complete unknown into which to throw yourself so irrevocably. Most schoolchildren have never exchanged a word with a military officer. Ever.
Far from criticising the idea of painting the logo on the side of the aircraft, as has happened elsewhere on this forum, you should be painting the logo as big and bright as you can on more or less every available surface, encouraging people to be seen in uniform, etc., however unseemly it may appear. You're competing with X-boxes and sports events, like it or not.
Phil
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Britain as a whole may have abandoned respect, but those who think the UK news media single out the armed forces for a hard time need a reality check.
The forces - the brave boys and girls as opposed to political masters - are just about the one group left today who still get the benefit of the doubt and automatic sympathy and respect when most news stories crop up. Rightly so, in my view, but the same is no longer true for: the clergy (too many perverts), minor Royals (spongers), doctors (paid too much), teachers (woolly-minded liberal whiners), politicians (edited for reasons of space). I may be generalising ever-so-slightly, but you get my drift.
One or two examples: recent Iraqi court martial. Big media row was over political pressure to put officers in the dock and 'how-dare-they-charge-them?', rather than how dare the Army close ranks after beating an Iraqi to death in custody which, as the judge observed, somebody did.
Forces accommodation - media on board and up in arms over cr6p mouldy homes.
Armoured vehicles - lots of media criticism over too many of our brave boys and girls driving around Basra in Snatch, as well as endless coverage of equipment cuts, shortages and inadequacies.
Op awards for gallantry always get big media coverage across the board, again quite rightly.
Current ops: when journalists are allowed anywhere near you on the frontline in hot and sandy places, resulting coverage is for the most part positive and sympathetic and shows you doing a good job in v tricky conditions.
And just occasionally, let's not forget, some serviceman or woman does something slightly less than impressive. Ipods, anyone?
If you feel the punter in the street doesn't love you enough, you may be right. But don't blame the media. We don't have it in for you.
The forces - the brave boys and girls as opposed to political masters - are just about the one group left today who still get the benefit of the doubt and automatic sympathy and respect when most news stories crop up. Rightly so, in my view, but the same is no longer true for: the clergy (too many perverts), minor Royals (spongers), doctors (paid too much), teachers (woolly-minded liberal whiners), politicians (edited for reasons of space). I may be generalising ever-so-slightly, but you get my drift.
One or two examples: recent Iraqi court martial. Big media row was over political pressure to put officers in the dock and 'how-dare-they-charge-them?', rather than how dare the Army close ranks after beating an Iraqi to death in custody which, as the judge observed, somebody did.
Forces accommodation - media on board and up in arms over cr6p mouldy homes.
Armoured vehicles - lots of media criticism over too many of our brave boys and girls driving around Basra in Snatch, as well as endless coverage of equipment cuts, shortages and inadequacies.
Op awards for gallantry always get big media coverage across the board, again quite rightly.
Current ops: when journalists are allowed anywhere near you on the frontline in hot and sandy places, resulting coverage is for the most part positive and sympathetic and shows you doing a good job in v tricky conditions.
And just occasionally, let's not forget, some serviceman or woman does something slightly less than impressive. Ipods, anyone?
If you feel the punter in the street doesn't love you enough, you may be right. But don't blame the media. We don't have it in for you.
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Phil_R, I know what you mean.
Many years ago, in Piccadilly station (Manchester) I saw a serviceman smartly turned out in a pale green best uniform. I had not seen the like before and asked him what the uniform was.
It is the only time when I have even seen an American soldier in a dress uniform.
OTOH, not some many years ago, I was accosted in Lincoln High Street. Naturally I ignored the shout. No chance, she ran after me and caught my arm and pressed a £5 note in my hand.
A day or so previously she had been crossing the street to put some money in the RAFA collection tin when the collector packed up and was gone. She asked me to pass the money on to RAF, which I did.
OK, it was Lincoln in RAF Lincolnshire, but at least someone recognised and trusted a serviceman.
Many years ago, in Piccadilly station (Manchester) I saw a serviceman smartly turned out in a pale green best uniform. I had not seen the like before and asked him what the uniform was.
It is the only time when I have even seen an American soldier in a dress uniform.
OTOH, not some many years ago, I was accosted in Lincoln High Street. Naturally I ignored the shout. No chance, she ran after me and caught my arm and pressed a £5 note in my hand.
A day or so previously she had been crossing the street to put some money in the RAFA collection tin when the collector packed up and was gone. She asked me to pass the money on to RAF, which I did.
OK, it was Lincoln in RAF Lincolnshire, but at least someone recognised and trusted a serviceman.
Colleague of mine went to get his car "hand washed" in West Drayton and no sooner had he pulled up, the staff all did a runner, thinking he was an immigration officer.
White shirt, black tie and gold stripes!
Still, can be quite funny when you tell the pizza delivery guy that you are HM Revenue and Customs!
White shirt, black tie and gold stripes!
Still, can be quite funny when you tell the pizza delivery guy that you are HM Revenue and Customs!
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Scribbler, very true. As the media guys put it, servicemen Good, MOD Bad.
OTOH there are journalists out there looking for the 'taxpayer's money' story - Harriers in Spain, Dominie in Czech Rep (?), Matelot's in Tehran ().
OTOH there are journalists out there looking for the 'taxpayer's money' story - Harriers in Spain, Dominie in Czech Rep (?), Matelot's in Tehran (
).
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Forgive me for posting here as I have never had any connection with the services.
I have read this thread through all the way and still don't quite get it - when we come in contact how exactly do you want me to treat you?
I can obviously only speak for myself but I would treat you in the same way as I would treat anyone else I met for the first time that is to say I work on on the assumption that you are a normal reasonably courteous human beings until proved otherwise.
I am perfectly happy to acknowledge that to the best of my knowledge most service personnel do a highly professional job and do it very well given the equipment they have to work with. I do not let the memory of the bunch of close cropped rowdy youths who kicked in nearly every panel of my car without provocation one Saturday night in Warminster many years ago colour my attitude, there are always some that give a bad name to a vast majority of well behaved people.
I have read this thread through all the way and still don't quite get it - when we come in contact how exactly do you want me to treat you?
I can obviously only speak for myself but I would treat you in the same way as I would treat anyone else I met for the first time that is to say I work on on the assumption that you are a normal reasonably courteous human beings until proved otherwise.
I am perfectly happy to acknowledge that to the best of my knowledge most service personnel do a highly professional job and do it very well given the equipment they have to work with. I do not let the memory of the bunch of close cropped rowdy youths who kicked in nearly every panel of my car without provocation one Saturday night in Warminster many years ago colour my attitude, there are always some that give a bad name to a vast majority of well behaved people.
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Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.
Nice of you to forgive the Paras - I wouldn't argue with them either.