Saluting the PM
X-Rating
Whilst I consider myself at least a bit to the left of some of the Attilas on this forum, I would be interested to read your defence of a man I consider morally shallow, and who: whilst having never worn a uniform, has sent fine young men and women to their deaths on a lie; never once looked a bereaved loved one in the face and thanked them for their loss; hung David Kelly out to dry for demonstrating some spine, causing his death.
Bit long for one sentence, but you get my drift.
CG
Whilst I consider myself at least a bit to the left of some of the Attilas on this forum, I would be interested to read your defence of a man I consider morally shallow, and who: whilst having never worn a uniform, has sent fine young men and women to their deaths on a lie; never once looked a bereaved loved one in the face and thanked them for their loss; hung David Kelly out to dry for demonstrating some spine, causing his death.
Bit long for one sentence, but you get my drift.
CG
Big Tudor,
I think I would have to draw the line at saluting Elton John, but he is certainly entitled, probably more so than our beloved leader, to be called Sir. And as for it being the position rather than the person that you are respecting, after the way that this shower has brought the position of PM into disrepute, I fail to see why I should salute Blair.
Saluting is a military tradition, that as has been alluded to in earlier posts, translates to certain aspects of civi life eg funeral cortege, on meeting a lady etc as a sign of respect. Blair is not and has not been in the military and so does not qualify to be saluted on that principle alone. As for saluting him out of respect ..... only when he finally shows some respect to the Armed Forces - Charlie Golf said all that needs to be said about that.
I think I would have to draw the line at saluting Elton John, but he is certainly entitled, probably more so than our beloved leader, to be called Sir. And as for it being the position rather than the person that you are respecting, after the way that this shower has brought the position of PM into disrepute, I fail to see why I should salute Blair.
Saluting is a military tradition, that as has been alluded to in earlier posts, translates to certain aspects of civi life eg funeral cortege, on meeting a lady etc as a sign of respect. Blair is not and has not been in the military and so does not qualify to be saluted on that principle alone. As for saluting him out of respect ..... only when he finally shows some respect to the Armed Forces - Charlie Golf said all that needs to be said about that.
Would this also not be a case of the PM being appointed by the Queen, therefore that's why a salute is given?
Although Blair (and many other politicians) forget the fact, the PM owes his/her office to the Sovereign, who invites him/her to form a government, and who may dismiss him (the understanding that this would be unconstitutional except in extreme circumstances notwithstanding, the right to do so remains).
Although Blair (and many other politicians) forget the fact, the PM owes his/her office to the Sovereign, who invites him/her to form a government, and who may dismiss him (the understanding that this would be unconstitutional except in extreme circumstances notwithstanding, the right to do so remains).
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Don't forget, you also salute a V.C. [worn or not]. Also as an AC2 in 1963, I was told to take my hat off indoors...'cos it hurts your hands when you bash them on the corridor walls.
bb
bb
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Now I understood that it was an American thing that they saluted those that had been awarded the Congressional Medal Honor (Honour), and that it's a very recent thing that people have decided that VC winners should be accorded the same accolade.
So what's the truth on that? I think that no matter how brave one had been, I couldn't see senior ranks in the Vctorian or Edwardian Forces saluting junior ranks who had been awarded the VC.
I'll salute Cpl (?) Beharry if I ever have the honour to meet him, but I'm buggered if I'll salute those slimy gits in govt
So what's the truth on that? I think that no matter how brave one had been, I couldn't see senior ranks in the Vctorian or Edwardian Forces saluting junior ranks who had been awarded the VC.
I'll salute Cpl (?) Beharry if I ever have the honour to meet him, but I'm buggered if I'll salute those slimy gits in govt
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Archimedes
"This would be unconstitutional except in extreme circumstances"
If you have a copy of "our constitution" - could you PM me so I can browse through it in quick time before the next election
"This would be unconstitutional except in extreme circumstances"
If you have a copy of "our constitution" - could you PM me so I can browse through it in quick time before the next election
Contrary to popular belief, we do have a written constitution - but it's buried in thousands of official and legal documents written since, oooh, about 1215...
(If anyone doeswant to investigate this sort of thing, Peter Hennessey is amongst the best on constitutional conventions. Try The Hidden Wiring: Unearthing the British Constitution (1995) and The Prime Minister: The Office and Its Holders since 1945 (2000). We now return you to the banter...)
(If anyone doeswant to investigate this sort of thing, Peter Hennessey is amongst the best on constitutional conventions. Try The Hidden Wiring: Unearthing the British Constitution (1995) and The Prime Minister: The Office and Its Holders since 1945 (2000). We now return you to the banter...)
I remember failing to salute the Duke of Edinburgh (both of us in uniform) at a prize presentation ceremony about 30 years ago. To this day I am always surprised to see my testicles are still in place, I was certain the RSM would use them for christmas tree decorations.
X-Rating
Back to the long course at Netley for you, or perhaps the old Kent earthquake has shaken your remaining brain cells up a bit. I’ll say this as gently as I can “Mrs Thatcher is no longer Prime Minister!” But it was nice of you to call her “him”. Oh! You mean Mr Blair do you? Well, Cherie (for it can only be you - and "X-Rating" is a very apt nom de plume for you), nice try, but suggesting that “he has more moral courage in his little finger than I suspect many of you” is frankly a bit of a cheek when you consider the courage so much more tangibly shown by so many of the contributors for whom this forum is intended - myself excluded in the courage category of course.
Two words that I'm sure that others will very swiftly have mentioned before I can next get online -David Kelly. Ever heard of Dr David Kelly and the “moral courage” displayed in his tragic case by Mr Blair - so ably aided and abetted by his accomplices Alastair Campbell, "Sir" John Scarlett et al - and that’s just for starters.
Jack
PS For 4fitter - Vis a vis your “And finally, (saluting) the PM or any other poli or senior civil servant - not in 31 years and hoping not to whilst still in uniform” is strangely at odds with your having become a “fairly senior bod”!
Please also see Post # 9 on page 1.
PPSS For Samuraimatt - “How would David Blunkett even know if you saluted him or not?” Before you head back to “Spotters’ Corner”, please reread Post # 45, and engage brain - and don’t even think of sending me a PM!
Two words that I'm sure that others will very swiftly have mentioned before I can next get online -David Kelly. Ever heard of Dr David Kelly and the “moral courage” displayed in his tragic case by Mr Blair - so ably aided and abetted by his accomplices Alastair Campbell, "Sir" John Scarlett et al - and that’s just for starters.
Jack
PS For 4fitter - Vis a vis your “And finally, (saluting) the PM or any other poli or senior civil servant - not in 31 years and hoping not to whilst still in uniform” is strangely at odds with your having become a “fairly senior bod”!
Please also see Post # 9 on page 1.PPSS For Samuraimatt - “How would David Blunkett even know if you saluted him or not?” Before you head back to “Spotters’ Corner”, please reread Post # 45, and engage brain - and don’t even think of sending me a PM!
Ah "Stradling" (Etiquette book mentioned by Beagle earlier)
Boy, did that guy give me some problems! I shall explain.....
For my last tour I had the immense pleasure of working in an office manned entirely by Specialist Aircrew Officers, apart from me (Enlisted Filth!).
It was "open plan" with five of us. The "Boss" sat on the far side with the other four of us in a block, together.
The "Flight Commander" was the only one with a Degree(!) and had picked-up a copy of "Stradling" from the Station library.
He would often read aloud for our/my benefit eg " If you enter the bar of a public house and encounter an airman, leave at once, it will do neither of you any good to socialise" etc, etc, etc.
It went on endlessly for MONTHS, until one day when the office was full and he quoted once too often.
I listened carefully then politely asked:
"Could you please look up what Stradling says about Officers having overdue library books, Sir"
Fun for all!
lsh
(PS; last we heard of Stradling!)
Boy, did that guy give me some problems! I shall explain.....
For my last tour I had the immense pleasure of working in an office manned entirely by Specialist Aircrew Officers, apart from me (Enlisted Filth!).
It was "open plan" with five of us. The "Boss" sat on the far side with the other four of us in a block, together.
The "Flight Commander" was the only one with a Degree(!) and had picked-up a copy of "Stradling" from the Station library.
He would often read aloud for our/my benefit eg " If you enter the bar of a public house and encounter an airman, leave at once, it will do neither of you any good to socialise" etc, etc, etc.
It went on endlessly for MONTHS, until one day when the office was full and he quoted once too often.
I listened carefully then politely asked:
"Could you please look up what Stradling says about Officers having overdue library books, Sir"
Fun for all!
lsh
(PS; last we heard of Stradling!)
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Blair digging graves to make his legacy.
A typically forthright interview with the Shir Sean. It brings up the interesting question for the gentlemen of the press: When quoting Shir Sean, how many asterisks should one use to indicate he is talking about "That arsehole Blair"? Should it be 3 (a***hole) or 4 (a****hole) as in arshehole?
A typically forthright interview with the Shir Sean. It brings up the interesting question for the gentlemen of the press: When quoting Shir Sean, how many asterisks should one use to indicate he is talking about "That arsehole Blair"? Should it be 3 (a***hole) or 4 (a****hole) as in arshehole?
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Is that Connery the Scottish Nationalist who doesn't feel the need to actually live in Scotland?
If he wants to express an opinion, maybe he should actually experience life in his homeland
He's a git, and I wouldn't salute him, either
If he wants to express an opinion, maybe he should actually experience life in his homeland
He's a git, and I wouldn't salute him, either
Although Blair (and many other politicians) forget the fact, the PM owes his/her office to the Sovereign, who invites him/her to form a government, and who may dismiss him (the understanding that this would be unconstitutional except in extreme circumstances notwithstanding, the right to do so remains).
Read more at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Au...utional_crisis
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Nope. I physically couldn't have brought myself to salute Bliar, Hoon, Blunkett, Mandelson, Reid or any of the other worst offenders, regardless of b0llockings or disciplinary action. As for "Sir" the only recipients are more senior military officers and the Royal Family. Post-titles for everything else!
I saluted an Army major once. He was without hat. He stood to attention as I passed to return the compliment. A gentleman!
I saluted an Army major once. He was without hat. He stood to attention as I passed to return the compliment. A gentleman!
BB, HMQ can remove the PM here if she so chooses. The right of the monarch to do this has never been rescinded, but the last time it was exercised was 1834, when William IV sacked Lord Melbourne [alluded to in the wiki article], on the grounds that he thought Melbourne was too kind to Catholics (despite the fact that Catholics had been emancipated in 1829).
This was regarded as a gross mis-use of power by the monarch, and it became accepted that the monarch would never sack the PM, unless (for instance) the PM went totally bonkers and, despite being deposed by his party as a result, refused to leave number 10, claiming he was still the legitimate PM. If HMQ then said ' one begs to differ, as one believes Sir Alan Sugar says "you're fired", Prime Minister' that would be that. Unless there were the exceptional circumstances noted above, this would now create a huge constitutional crisis, which - almost certainly - parliament would probably win.
As for dissolving parliament, she has done for every general election since 1955. The monarch is the only person who can dissolve parliament.
Again, it would take exceptional circumstances for HMQ to do this - most notably if a parliament declared that it was going to ignore the requirement for an election every five years and continue on its merry way. What happens normally is that the PM decides when he/she is going to have the general election and goes to the palace to ask HMQ to dissolve parliament. A royal proclamation is issued calling for the issuing of the writs to summon a new parliament.
Conversely, the monarch may refuse the request for a dissolution - for instance, if a minority government requested a dissolution, but it was clear that a coalition commanding a majority could be formed, the Queen might (upon taking advice) refuse, allow the coalition to form, and then invite the leader of the coalition to become PM.
We now return you to the question of whether Mr Bliar should be saluted in the approved manner, or in a less orthodox fashion...
This was regarded as a gross mis-use of power by the monarch, and it became accepted that the monarch would never sack the PM, unless (for instance) the PM went totally bonkers and, despite being deposed by his party as a result, refused to leave number 10, claiming he was still the legitimate PM. If HMQ then said ' one begs to differ, as one believes Sir Alan Sugar says "you're fired", Prime Minister' that would be that. Unless there were the exceptional circumstances noted above, this would now create a huge constitutional crisis, which - almost certainly - parliament would probably win.
As for dissolving parliament, she has done for every general election since 1955. The monarch is the only person who can dissolve parliament.
Again, it would take exceptional circumstances for HMQ to do this - most notably if a parliament declared that it was going to ignore the requirement for an election every five years and continue on its merry way. What happens normally is that the PM decides when he/she is going to have the general election and goes to the palace to ask HMQ to dissolve parliament. A royal proclamation is issued calling for the issuing of the writs to summon a new parliament.
Conversely, the monarch may refuse the request for a dissolution - for instance, if a minority government requested a dissolution, but it was clear that a coalition commanding a majority could be formed, the Queen might (upon taking advice) refuse, allow the coalition to form, and then invite the leader of the coalition to become PM.
We now return you to the question of whether Mr Bliar should be saluted in the approved manner, or in a less orthodox fashion...
Passpartout (sic!)
Is that Connery the Scottish Nationalist who doesn't feel the need to actually live in Scotland?
If he wants to express an opinion, maybe he should actually experience life in his homeland
He's a git, and I wouldn't salute him, either
Nor would he want you to salute him, not least since he was once a Leading Seaman in the Royal Navy!
Curiously enough, he also used to be our milkman when I was a small child in Edinburgh, and when I see him, as I do from time when we are both visting the US at the same time, I still say "Two pints please, Mr Connery", to which he replies "It's two pints please, Sir Sean to you young man"! And your personal knowledge of Sir Sean which enables you to abuse him is based on what exactly, PP?
As for his political opinions, it matters not whether he still lives in Edinburgh or in Lyford Quay in the Bahamas - you can take the Scot out of Scotland, but you cannot take Scotland out of the Scot. I currently have to live in England, but it doesn't stop me from feeling very strongly about what is happening in Scotland - and right now I am laughing myself silly about Labour's discomfiture following the Scottish elections. Unlike Sir Sean (and absolutely nothing to do with my monniker), I hold no particular brief for the Scottish Nationalists, but you would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at their win over Labour, however narrow the margin! So, more power to Sir Sean for helping them to heighten their profile - I salute you!
Jack
PS What brought me to England? The love of a good woman - but please don't tell my wife! And, no, she's not English either ....
If he wants to express an opinion, maybe he should actually experience life in his homeland
He's a git, and I wouldn't salute him, either
Nor would he want you to salute him, not least since he was once a Leading Seaman in the Royal Navy!
Curiously enough, he also used to be our milkman when I was a small child in Edinburgh, and when I see him, as I do from time when we are both visting the US at the same time, I still say "Two pints please, Mr Connery", to which he replies "It's two pints please, Sir Sean to you young man"! And your personal knowledge of Sir Sean which enables you to abuse him is based on what exactly, PP?
As for his political opinions, it matters not whether he still lives in Edinburgh or in Lyford Quay in the Bahamas - you can take the Scot out of Scotland, but you cannot take Scotland out of the Scot. I currently have to live in England, but it doesn't stop me from feeling very strongly about what is happening in Scotland - and right now I am laughing myself silly about Labour's discomfiture following the Scottish elections. Unlike Sir Sean (and absolutely nothing to do with my monniker), I hold no particular brief for the Scottish Nationalists, but you would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at their win over Labour, however narrow the margin! So, more power to Sir Sean for helping them to heighten their profile - I salute you!
Jack
PS What brought me to England? The love of a good woman - but please don't tell my wife! And, no, she's not English either ....