Cornet Wales (Prince Harry)
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Just to clear things up...
Just to clear something up... I respect the decision of Cornet Wales to serve in Iraq and didn't start this thread to give him a hard time. What I am concerned about is the amount of publicity it is getting compared to the lack of publicity the rest of the Armed Forces are getting for serving on operations there. Do the media (and therefore the general public) hear about the lack of equipment and manpower on a day to day basis? Do they know we're having to make do with very old aircraft? Do they know about Government penny-pinching that could potentially put our lives on the line? Probably not. That's why I started this, not to give a soldier a hard time.
Letsgoandfly.
Sadly, the answer to most of your questions is 'No'. The wider population is far more concerned with paying their Mortgage, finding a Dentist, getting a Doctors appointment, finding a decent school for their kids or working out which credit card to use this week. The Military do not figure highly in their daily lives, indeed, more and more actually seem to think that current Military Ops, under the direction of Mr Blair, is adding to their woes - Air Travel, fuel prices, militants.
I am a Governor at a High School in this area and they have just introduced 'Uniformed Service' as a BTEC type qualification. Out of a student population of 1100, they have had 23 applicants. It is not a popular addition with the majority of teachers. Furthermore, I have yet to find a picture of the Queen anywhere on the premises. As to playing the National Anthem........
The times they are a changing.
Sadly, the answer to most of your questions is 'No'. The wider population is far more concerned with paying their Mortgage, finding a Dentist, getting a Doctors appointment, finding a decent school for their kids or working out which credit card to use this week. The Military do not figure highly in their daily lives, indeed, more and more actually seem to think that current Military Ops, under the direction of Mr Blair, is adding to their woes - Air Travel, fuel prices, militants.
I am a Governor at a High School in this area and they have just introduced 'Uniformed Service' as a BTEC type qualification. Out of a student population of 1100, they have had 23 applicants. It is not a popular addition with the majority of teachers. Furthermore, I have yet to find a picture of the Queen anywhere on the premises. As to playing the National Anthem........
The times they are a changing.
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Rules of Engagement
At the risk of getting booed or jeered, I suggest you could do worse that read the leader in the Telegraph under Rules of Engagement. Or at least try to read it objectively. I think it covers the situation clearly.
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brandnew,
Agree with your comments 100%.
Tigs2,
Agree with you on that second bit...
HW
Agree with your comments 100%.
Tigs2,
Use it yourself first if your going to comment on others.
People who live in glass houses......
HW
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Brandnew
I am 100% in agreement with your comments.
There would seem to be a bit of LMF amongst some, who have a lot to say but have very little to offer, in the way of support.
To all over there, keep up the good work whoever you are!
Cheers
I am 100% in agreement with your comments.
There would seem to be a bit of LMF amongst some, who have a lot to say but have very little to offer, in the way of support.
To all over there, keep up the good work whoever you are!
Cheers
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I have no great interest in whether Harry serves in Iraq or not but what I can say is that the MOD PR machine is to blame for the media feeding frenzy that surrounds this decision. Why was he not permitted to deploy quietly with no fanfare? His troop could have been deployed anywhere in the world on paper - to satisfy the medias unending curiosity - and then ended up in Iraq, served their time and returned - when an annoucement could have been made!
Getting back to the debacle of the MOD press office - their tacit support for the Navy hostage sales campaign, their attempt to bury the news on 6 Sqn's early demise makes me wonder where our leader are getting their advice from? All I can say is that the uniformed element within that particular department has been decimated in recent years as the civil service (note the lack of capitals) disestablishes military positions and fills them with their own form of ineptitude. The lack of military expertise, brainpower, and experience is sadly lacking in many areas now - and it is irrecoverable.
Getting back to the debacle of the MOD press office - their tacit support for the Navy hostage sales campaign, their attempt to bury the news on 6 Sqn's early demise makes me wonder where our leader are getting their advice from? All I can say is that the uniformed element within that particular department has been decimated in recent years as the civil service (note the lack of capitals) disestablishes military positions and fills them with their own form of ineptitude. The lack of military expertise, brainpower, and experience is sadly lacking in many areas now - and it is irrecoverable.
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Dear Mr Letsgoandfly
I am doing my best to raise public awareness about the lack of equipment and manpower.
But it does need some whistle blowers to get the media and the public to sit up and take notice, many wisper in corners but few shout it from the roof tops!!!
As for Harry I don't care if he goes or stays but the top brass should have discussed his possible deployment before he started his training and not after.
I am doing my best to raise public awareness about the lack of equipment and manpower.
But it does need some whistle blowers to get the media and the public to sit up and take notice, many wisper in corners but few shout it from the roof tops!!!
As for Harry I don't care if he goes or stays but the top brass should have discussed his possible deployment before he started his training and not after.
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brandnew, for my part (notwithstanding your one man JSP101 impersonation), you were doing fine up to;
I would have hoped that you weren't yet another "can't see beyond the current tribal hostilities" experts. Look at the bigger picture as there are some potent bad buggers out there who are lying low just now. OK; for various reasons, the Typhoon and Nimrod 4 are late and over budget but we will probably still need them and the T45s.
My simple view is that the Prince Harry has been commissioned and joined his Unit. If they deploy then so should he. If he takes a hit, it will be very sad but hardly a national catastrophe. I have seen the responsibility for making his Unit a prize target argument in many of the Posts here. That may be so and we need the Media to wind in their necks for the duration of his Tour. Secondly, why are we convincing ourselves that it can only have one big negative impact? I'm sure the likes E Rommel would have taken such a disadvantage and turned to an advantage. Of course Johnny RH will want to capture the lad or at least kill him. To take randomness away from either, he will have to make additional effort and probably in greater concentration. He will probably show a greater presence and take greater and bolder risks. He's up against a trained and disciplined force that will capitalise on any mistakes and recklessness. Instead of viewing it as intolerable risk and overwhelming odds, lets look for a target rich environment.
I do hope that he and his return alive and in one piece.
Originally Posted by brandnew
In essence, there are far more newsworthy stories than the upcoming deployment of Cornet Wales: the total lack of funding for essential UOR projects; the shameful waste of money on such projects as Typhoon, T45 and the Nimrod MK4; the appalling treatment of our wounded; the 18 month delay on mineproof vehicles for Basra.
I would have hoped that you weren't yet another "can't see beyond the current tribal hostilities" experts. Look at the bigger picture as there are some potent bad buggers out there who are lying low just now. OK; for various reasons, the Typhoon and Nimrod 4 are late and over budget but we will probably still need them and the T45s.
My simple view is that the Prince Harry has been commissioned and joined his Unit. If they deploy then so should he. If he takes a hit, it will be very sad but hardly a national catastrophe. I have seen the responsibility for making his Unit a prize target argument in many of the Posts here. That may be so and we need the Media to wind in their necks for the duration of his Tour. Secondly, why are we convincing ourselves that it can only have one big negative impact? I'm sure the likes E Rommel would have taken such a disadvantage and turned to an advantage. Of course Johnny RH will want to capture the lad or at least kill him. To take randomness away from either, he will have to make additional effort and probably in greater concentration. He will probably show a greater presence and take greater and bolder risks. He's up against a trained and disciplined force that will capitalise on any mistakes and recklessness. Instead of viewing it as intolerable risk and overwhelming odds, lets look for a target rich environment.
I do hope that he and his return alive and in one piece.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The moronic and bizarre claims that Harry recieved his commission because he is a member of the royal family, and the pathetic statements discouting his parentage are not becoming of serving members of the armed forces.
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Surely this is why we actually have a line to the throne. Let him lead by example. If IRAQ is good enough for everyone else then he should deploy. Unfortunately the media debate is only heightening the threat to the rest of his unit.
Just as an aside and not wishing to bring in any form of debate about The Crusades. Wasn't Richard the Lionheart the last Royal to deploy into this theatre during operations and look at him, he was at the top of the line!!
Just as an aside and not wishing to bring in any form of debate about The Crusades. Wasn't Richard the Lionheart the last Royal to deploy into this theatre during operations and look at him, he was at the top of the line!!
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PNAV - Thank you for that. Please feel free to go through the rest of posts correcting my spelling. I'll even send you some of my staff writing to red pen if you want... Last edited by brandnew : Today at 13:23. Reason: wasn't quite finished!
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brandnew. I do, of course, see your point on conflicting programme immediacy and what look like money sponges. That would be a whole new Thread on user requirements, procurement and contract management.
The argument about the Prince's presence putting others at risk is using the same psychology as the passive smoking and 4 x 4s hurt children lobbies. As I said before, why not stop binding about it and turn it to an advantage?
Another point that we should consider is that if it's deemed too dangerous and he doesn't go, Johnny RH has scored another instant victory. Where's our national backbone disappearing to. We can't all become MPs or health and safety officials can we?
The argument about the Prince's presence putting others at risk is using the same psychology as the passive smoking and 4 x 4s hurt children lobbies. As I said before, why not stop binding about it and turn it to an advantage?
Another point that we should consider is that if it's deemed too dangerous and he doesn't go, Johnny RH has scored another instant victory. Where's our national backbone disappearing to. We can't all become MPs or health and safety officials can we?
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Brandnew
I agree with your statements concerning Harry.
Pleased be advised that nobody wishes to check your spelling, it was you that detracted from a sensible argument in the first place by offering someone else a spell checker, which is ok if you do it yourself, but is a bit arsey if you don't, which you don't. I don't which is why i don't offer spell checkers.
I agree with your statements concerning Harry.
Pleased be advised that nobody wishes to check your spelling, it was you that detracted from a sensible argument in the first place by offering someone else a spell checker, which is ok if you do it yourself, but is a bit arsey if you don't, which you don't. I don't which is why i don't offer spell checkers.
I ask this very much as a layman but, with a bit of foresight, would it not have been better to have trained him for a less personal role in Afghanistan?
It appears to me that the fighting there is on a much bigger scale where the Taliban would be unlikely to know who they were fighting and his presence would make little difference to them or his fellow soldiers. If he is admirably determined to do his bit, this could be the answer.
It appears to me that the fighting there is on a much bigger scale where the Taliban would be unlikely to know who they were fighting and his presence would make little difference to them or his fellow soldiers. If he is admirably determined to do his bit, this could be the answer.
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Pulse, it doesn't matter what he's trained as, or really where he goes. The fact that he wants to go and do his bit for his country is very admirable. My point, or complaint, is why the media circus? If you or I went out there they wouldn't care, in fact, they only seem to care when deaths give them a front page story (for a day or two). His deployment is in most of tomorrows papers (Sat 28 Apr) instead of worthy stories into the Armed Forces and the problems that we are suffering. The continued speculation probably won't help us look good to the public either.
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Let's follow the "increased risk to his mates" "reasoning" for a minute.
Yes, the baddies will try to "get Harry" extra hard because of who he is.
They will also want to try extra hard to "get" the sons/daughters of multi-millionares, bankers, oil executives, high-level politicians, Generals/Admirals... ad nauseum... if they learn they are there, and can get good pics to identify them with.
Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?
Are the only people we can send into the fighting "those who will not bring increased risk to their mates"?
That means that the poor & unknown are the only ones who will be allowed to fight our wars, and to die for their country.
Nice choice, isn't it?
Cut the crap... the bleeding-hearts have been screaming for the "sons of privelige" to be placed at risk of their parent's policies for decades, and now they complain when they get their wish granted?
The only ones in this situation who have my respect, or to whom I will pay any attention, are Cornet Wales and his mates.
Bravo Zulu to them all!
Yes, the baddies will try to "get Harry" extra hard because of who he is.
They will also want to try extra hard to "get" the sons/daughters of multi-millionares, bankers, oil executives, high-level politicians, Generals/Admirals... ad nauseum... if they learn they are there, and can get good pics to identify them with.
Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?
Are the only people we can send into the fighting "those who will not bring increased risk to their mates"?
That means that the poor & unknown are the only ones who will be allowed to fight our wars, and to die for their country.
Nice choice, isn't it?
Cut the crap... the bleeding-hearts have been screaming for the "sons of privelige" to be placed at risk of their parent's policies for decades, and now they complain when they get their wish granted?
The only ones in this situation who have my respect, or to whom I will pay any attention, are Cornet Wales and his mates.
Bravo Zulu to them all!
More bang for your buck
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Does that mean that we need to exempt all of those from serving in Iraq/Afganistan too?
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I would express the same concern for any of our servicemen who are sent into battle without adequate protection. However, why this trained young officer should not be put in the same theatre of operations as his classmates escapes me. Why would he not lead his men into battle?
This administration cares nothing then if for their own vainglorious public perception. If one of ‘the celebs’ was killed in Tony’s War, what would the Daily Hatemail say about them? And what if he came back with a meritorious war-record? What kind of message will that send to the socially re-engineered fluffy pink Republic of Blairistan? A warmonger as heir to the throne?
This man must do his duty by his country, his grandmother, and his men. In fact if theIranians insurgents want to target him, then lets get some Global Hawk coverage, follow the trail back, and send them some Green Granite.
This administration cares nothing then if for their own vainglorious public perception. If one of ‘the celebs’ was killed in Tony’s War, what would the Daily Hatemail say about them? And what if he came back with a meritorious war-record? What kind of message will that send to the socially re-engineered fluffy pink Republic of Blairistan? A warmonger as heir to the throne?
This man must do his duty by his country, his grandmother, and his men. In fact if the