10 Downing Street - Military Deaths Petition
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The campaign has got some good press in the Daily Telegraph today. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...inquest123.xml
Bereaved families have petitioned Gordon Brown to stop the "absolutely appalling" wait for military inquests into their loved ones' deaths, it was disclosed yesterday.
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WHAT IS A BACKLOG?
A spokesman for the Ministry of Justice, which is responsible for inquests, said: "When [former constitutional affairs minister] Harriet Harman reported the backlog to Parliament in May 2006 there were 86. She said that was unacceptable. That figure is down to 14 at Oxford."
He said the total of 121 outstanding inquests was not a "backlog" and added there was no backlog with the Wiltshire coroner, who is dealing with 51 military inquests.
A spokesman for the Ministry of Justice, which is responsible for inquests, said: "When [former constitutional affairs minister] Harriet Harman reported the backlog to Parliament in May 2006 there were 86. She said that was unacceptable. That figure is down to 14 at Oxford."
He said the total of 121 outstanding inquests was not a "backlog" and added there was no backlog with the Wiltshire coroner, who is dealing with 51 military inquests.
What is a Backlog?
Tappers Dad:
There is no Backlog, no Overstretch, and soon thanks to "DIN" there will be a marked decrease in dissatisfaction expressed by those serving with the policies of this government! If these buffoons fool anyone now it is only themselves. Treat their assurances with the contempt that they deserve TD, and carry on with your search for the real truth. Good luck!
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Chug
WHAT IS A BACKLOG?
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Chug
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i am so sorry that it has taken me sooo long to sign the petition. i have been a bit of a pleb recently thanks to baby hormones and so i thought i'd already done it!!!i have now and will get in contact with my contacts from MFAW (military families against war) to see that all that can be will be done. i'll contact rose gentle and co to round the troops as it were to get this going again. i will also get in contact with those who i have contact with who i know as a result of losing my brother in iraq in jan 05 on the herc. we are represented by the wiltshire coroner but like so many familes we are waiting, and waiting and waiting. we are all family within the military and at times like this we should pull together, god knows we are all in the same boat.it is a travesty of course that the MoD and government are unable to thinkthat way too and it would seem in their eyes that when our loved ones ceased to exist then so did we. not so my friend!!! i for one have been more than vocal and become known to the government and senior officials and initiated my own e petition to protect the hercules aircraft with a much needed safety system. if you need any contacts i will try and help. i'll also email everyone i can and will promise to do my best to help. shame the same can't be said of the government ministers.
most importantly......keep the faith. you are not alone!
most importantly......keep the faith. you are not alone!
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Hercules inquest leaves families 'in limbo'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...inquest120.xml
Hercules inquest leaves families 'in limbo'
20th Sept 2007
Families of 10 servicemen whose Hercules plane was shot down by Iraqi insurgents have accused the Government of keeping them "in limbo" after it emerged that they will have to wait three years to find out how their loved ones died.
Yesterday there was confusion over the cause of the delay.
The coroner hearing the case said officials from the Ministry of Defence were sifting through witnesses' interviews and crash reports to decide what they would block under the Official Secrets Act.
David Masters, the Wiltshire coroner, insisted that the families were supportive of the process, adding: "No one wishes to put UK forces serving in Iraq or Afghanistan in jeopardy. These documents are of a sensitive nature."
But the Ministry of Defence claimed the coroner was still reading its own Board of Inquiry reports.
Sarah Chapman, the sister of one airman, Flight Sergeant Bob O'Connor, said she was "incensed" by the delay. "The grieving process cannot be completed until the inquest process has been," she said. "In today's society is it really acceptable that families are left to wait until such questions are answered? We are all finding it extremely frustrating to be in a state of limbo."
John Cooper, a barrister representing four of the families, said they would be "terribly disappointed" by the news.
Hercules inquest leaves families 'in limbo'
20th Sept 2007
Families of 10 servicemen whose Hercules plane was shot down by Iraqi insurgents have accused the Government of keeping them "in limbo" after it emerged that they will have to wait three years to find out how their loved ones died.
Yesterday there was confusion over the cause of the delay.
The coroner hearing the case said officials from the Ministry of Defence were sifting through witnesses' interviews and crash reports to decide what they would block under the Official Secrets Act.
David Masters, the Wiltshire coroner, insisted that the families were supportive of the process, adding: "No one wishes to put UK forces serving in Iraq or Afghanistan in jeopardy. These documents are of a sensitive nature."
But the Ministry of Defence claimed the coroner was still reading its own Board of Inquiry reports.
Sarah Chapman, the sister of one airman, Flight Sergeant Bob O'Connor, said she was "incensed" by the delay. "The grieving process cannot be completed until the inquest process has been," she said. "In today's society is it really acceptable that families are left to wait until such questions are answered? We are all finding it extremely frustrating to be in a state of limbo."
John Cooper, a barrister representing four of the families, said they would be "terribly disappointed" by the news.
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Chappie said;
No Chappie, you are not represented by the Coroner.. the Coroner is paid for at public expense and represents the dead person, to determine the cause of death of a deceased in cases where the death was sudden, unexpected, occurred overseas etc. You are represented by a privately employed solicitor, if you choose to do so.
I appreciate and sympahise with the suffering any family feels when they lose a loved one, but I object to the politicisation and hijacking by the deceased person's family, simply to prove an (invariably) personal point. You do NOT represent Military Families, you represent some military families and I very much doubt, many of the beliefs of those who died anyway. By all means object to the war, by all means campaign for improvements.. but do it on your own 2 feet, and not with the implied caveat that if anyone isn't 'with' you, they're for war, which is of course, absolute bollocks and cynically aimed at exploiting people's emotions and unfairly swaying opinion.
Cheers.
i am so sorry that it has taken me sooo long to sign the petition. i have been a bit of a pleb recently thanks to baby hormones and so i thought i'd already done it!!!i have now and will get in contact with my contacts from MFAW (military families against war) to see that all that can be will be done. i'll contact rose gentle and co to round the troops as it were to get this going again. i will also get in contact with those who i have contact with who i know as a result of losing my brother in iraq in jan 05 on the herc. we are represented by the wiltshire coroner but like so many familes we are waiting, and waiting and waiting. we are all family within the military and at times like this we should pull together, god knows we are all in the same boat.it is a travesty of course that the MoD and government are unable to thinkthat way too and it would seem in their eyes that when our loved ones ceased to exist then so did we. not so my friend!!! i for one have been more than vocal and become known to the government and senior officials and initiated my own e petition to protect the hercules aircraft with a much needed safety system. if you need any contacts i will try and help. i'll also email everyone i can and will promise to do my best to help. shame the same can't be said of the government ministers.
most importantly......keep the faith. you are not alone!
most importantly......keep the faith. you are not alone!
I appreciate and sympahise with the suffering any family feels when they lose a loved one, but I object to the politicisation and hijacking by the deceased person's family, simply to prove an (invariably) personal point. You do NOT represent Military Families, you represent some military families and I very much doubt, many of the beliefs of those who died anyway. By all means object to the war, by all means campaign for improvements.. but do it on your own 2 feet, and not with the implied caveat that if anyone isn't 'with' you, they're for war, which is of course, absolute bollocks and cynically aimed at exploiting people's emotions and unfairly swaying opinion.
Cheers.
Well, A1 R, someone is talking "absolute bollocks", but I very much doubt if it is Chappie. In what way do you claim that she has used “politicisation and hijacking by the deceased person’s family” (whatever that mouthful means)? To my knowledge she has called for ESF to be fitted to all the Hercules Fleet, being greatly instrumental in the near total success of that campaign, and she has called for speeding up the process of Coroners’ Courts investigating the circumstances of the deaths abroad of those who have died (like her brother) in the service of their country. She has done so because in the first case the MOD was damned if it was going to spend good money on ESF, and in the second case because the inordinate delay in Coroners dealing with and concluding their investigations into our service dead is a national disgrace. Which part of that is politicisation? If she has common cause in those aims with those campaigning on a political front, so what? The luxury of never tainting oneself with those of differing views is not one she can afford, any more than this country could in WW2. “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”. Good military maxim that A1 R, worthy of study!
Now you may ally yourself with HMG in this situation, Lord knows they need someone on their side, but characterising Chappie as not sharing “many of the beliefs of those who died” is an unacceptable insult, especially when aimed at the bereaved, and should be retracted with an apology immediately, wouldn’t you say? How do you know what she believes or doesn’t, other than what she has revealed? What business is it of you, me, or anyone else anyway? All I know is she has "stood on her own two feet" in these fights on behalf of those who serve and their families, until the demands of a difficult pregnancy obliged her to do otherwise, I can only speak for myself when I say I have been filled with admiration for her courage and drive over the past year or so. The military family owes her a great debt. You A1 R owe her an apology!
Now you may ally yourself with HMG in this situation, Lord knows they need someone on their side, but characterising Chappie as not sharing “many of the beliefs of those who died” is an unacceptable insult, especially when aimed at the bereaved, and should be retracted with an apology immediately, wouldn’t you say? How do you know what she believes or doesn’t, other than what she has revealed? What business is it of you, me, or anyone else anyway? All I know is she has "stood on her own two feet" in these fights on behalf of those who serve and their families, until the demands of a difficult pregnancy obliged her to do otherwise, I can only speak for myself when I say I have been filled with admiration for her courage and drive over the past year or so. The military family owes her a great debt. You A1 R owe her an apology!
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Chugalug said lots, including;
There you go.. because I've had the audacity to question her, I'm a pro HMG stoolie (if you're not with us etc..
). I stand by what I say. My comments are not a reflection of her personal qualities either, or her ability to press for C130 safety, so don't you go joining the queue lining up with your big dollop of emotional blackmail.
And how the hell do you know that those who died would have wanted them to do what they were doing? It was aimed clearly at those who hijack their lives and deaths to vent their political spleens.. as I recall, I didn't mention any of the work she has done on C130 safety either, for that she is to be applauded.
I stand by my comments about their self righteous and assuming org naming, and I stand by the fact that the coroner does not represent them. I also think that most sane people will realise that when I was using the word 'you', I was referring to the organisation, and not her as an individual. By all means stand up to be counted, but I wonder how many military families are actually in 'Military Families against the War' and just how representative it is, and whether they have other issues other than THE WAR, such as the recent Headley Court battle, or improving military housing? If, as I suspect, it is a one shot, single issue concern, thankfully, these idiots will soon fade away. I grieve for their loss, I accept thery need closure.. BUT THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE MILITARY FAMILY NETWORK, and I despise their hijacking of it in such a cackhanded manner.
Well, A1 R, someone is talking "absolute bollocks", but I very much doubt if it is Chappie. In what way do you claim that she has used “politicisation and hijacking by the deceased person’s family” (whatever that mouthful means)? To my knowledge she has called for ESF to be fitted to all the Hercules Fleet, being greatly instrumental in the near total success of that campaign, and she has called for speeding up the process of Coroners’ Courts investigating the circumstances of the deaths abroad of those who have died (like her brother) in the service of their country. She has done so because in the first case the MOD was damned if it was going to spend good money on ESF, and in the second case because the inordinate delay in Coroners dealing with and concluding their investigations into our service dead is a national disgrace. Which part of that is politicisation? If she has common cause in those aims with those campaigning on a political front, so what? The luxury of never tainting oneself with those of differing views is not one she can afford, any more than this country could in WW2. “My enemy’s enemy is my friend”. Good military maxim that A1 R, worthy of study!
Now you may ally yourself with HMG in this situation, Lord knows they need someone on their side, but characterising Chappie as not sharing “many of the beliefs of those who died” is an unacceptable insult, especially when aimed at the bereaved, and should be retracted with an apology immediately, wouldn’t you say? How do you know what she believes or doesn’t, other than what she has revealed? What business is it of you, me, or anyone else anyway? All I know is she has "stood on her own two feet" in these fights on behalf of those who serve and their families, until the demands of a difficult pregnancy obliged her to do otherwise, I can only speak for myself when I say I have been filled with admiration for her courage and drive over the past year or so. The military family owes her a great debt. You A1 R owe her an apology!
Now you may ally yourself with HMG in this situation, Lord knows they need someone on their side, but characterising Chappie as not sharing “many of the beliefs of those who died” is an unacceptable insult, especially when aimed at the bereaved, and should be retracted with an apology immediately, wouldn’t you say? How do you know what she believes or doesn’t, other than what she has revealed? What business is it of you, me, or anyone else anyway? All I know is she has "stood on her own two feet" in these fights on behalf of those who serve and their families, until the demands of a difficult pregnancy obliged her to do otherwise, I can only speak for myself when I say I have been filled with admiration for her courage and drive over the past year or so. The military family owes her a great debt. You A1 R owe her an apology!
There you go.. because I've had the audacity to question her, I'm a pro HMG stoolie (if you're not with us etc..
). I stand by what I say. My comments are not a reflection of her personal qualities either, or her ability to press for C130 safety, so don't you go joining the queue lining up with your big dollop of emotional blackmail.And how the hell do you know that those who died would have wanted them to do what they were doing? It was aimed clearly at those who hijack their lives and deaths to vent their political spleens.. as I recall, I didn't mention any of the work she has done on C130 safety either, for that she is to be applauded.
I stand by my comments about their self righteous and assuming org naming, and I stand by the fact that the coroner does not represent them. I also think that most sane people will realise that when I was using the word 'you', I was referring to the organisation, and not her as an individual. By all means stand up to be counted, but I wonder how many military families are actually in 'Military Families against the War' and just how representative it is, and whether they have other issues other than THE WAR, such as the recent Headley Court battle, or improving military housing? If, as I suspect, it is a one shot, single issue concern, thankfully, these idiots will soon fade away. I grieve for their loss, I accept thery need closure.. BUT THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE MILITARY FAMILY NETWORK, and I despise their hijacking of it in such a cackhanded manner.
Well you had your chance Al R, and you come out with ever more spleen venting. You seem to be implying that you were attacking, sorry questioning, not Chappie, but MFAW, though I didn't see a single question in your first post, simply a tirade about coroners, hijacking and caveats. From where I am your posts are both out of order, especially on this thread. Do you ever stop to read what you have written before you post? You seem to be filled with a lot of anger, and I am the first to admit that there is a lot to be angry about if one is serving in HM Forces at the moment. But directing that anger against someone who has suffered as Chappie has, and still finds the strength to campaign for those still serving and their loved ones is simply bizarre. All she said was that she would contact those in MFAW that she knows to support this petition. I don't know if she belongs to MFAW herself, as if it matters. She wasn't pushing their agenda, merely trying for them to support this campaign. I suggest a lot more sitting on your hands while you assess things, for you seem to be shooting at the wrong target IMHO. Whether Chappie wishes to respond to you is up to her. I'm done. Oh, except to say that I know that Chappie also supported the Headley Court campaign as well. Check the thread, check her previous posts and you will see where she is coming from. Something that you might better have done before you posted here, perhaps?
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You seem to have some difficulty with oxygen starvation. Perhaps if you climbed down off your soapbox and took a few deep breaths? Firstly, I (once again, because you had difficulty reading it before) have nothing but admiration for anyone who takes on an issue such as flight safety for those still flying. I take my hat off to them. That she has done it whilst in gestation marks her out as a person of resolve and commitment. We need more like her on the current board of RAF directors.
Secondly, my issue is with the arseholes who wrap themselves up in a banner (and it IS politicised) proclaiming themselves to represent Military Families against THE WAR When clearly, they have no such mandate to do so. Now, if they wanted to call themselves 'Pro Rata, and frankly speaking, a few relatives or families against the g'ment intervention in Iraq', I wouldn't mind so much, because we would know where they were coming from and who they really represented. Or if they wanted to call themselves 'People against WAR', then fine.. no problems. But the naming was done in a cynical attempt to cause embarrassment to the MoD and misslead, and thats what I've got an issue with, oh.. and the statement which suggested the Coroner was 'theirs', when clearly, he isn't came from her and that was wrong. Perhaps you could comment on that before getting off your high horse/soap box?
A visit to the MFaTW website shows just how politicised they are. I didn't see any talk of anything other than Goerge Bush's "failed surge" and pulling troops back from the Iranian border. The sooner this woman distances herself from such banal, cynical and exploitative political tripe, that just feeds off the raw emotions of those who are particularly vulnerable especially after feeling grievous loss, the better. They claim to have the support of 300 families, err.. just how representative of the military community is that again?
There have been many loss filled loved ones, rightly so, decrying the lack of body armour and the like (I was once one of those deemed worthy of receiving someone elses bpdy armour, so I can see it from both sides) and much much dignity.. more so than I would probably show. And frankly, you have no idea what my perspective or history is, yet you are all to quick to label me a HNG stoolie because I have the temerity to dissagree with you.
Frankly, kiss my arse.
Cheers.
Secondly, my issue is with the arseholes who wrap themselves up in a banner (and it IS politicised) proclaiming themselves to represent Military Families against THE WAR When clearly, they have no such mandate to do so. Now, if they wanted to call themselves 'Pro Rata, and frankly speaking, a few relatives or families against the g'ment intervention in Iraq', I wouldn't mind so much, because we would know where they were coming from and who they really represented. Or if they wanted to call themselves 'People against WAR', then fine.. no problems. But the naming was done in a cynical attempt to cause embarrassment to the MoD and misslead, and thats what I've got an issue with, oh.. and the statement which suggested the Coroner was 'theirs', when clearly, he isn't came from her and that was wrong. Perhaps you could comment on that before getting off your high horse/soap box?
A visit to the MFaTW website shows just how politicised they are. I didn't see any talk of anything other than Goerge Bush's "failed surge" and pulling troops back from the Iranian border. The sooner this woman distances herself from such banal, cynical and exploitative political tripe, that just feeds off the raw emotions of those who are particularly vulnerable especially after feeling grievous loss, the better. They claim to have the support of 300 families, err.. just how representative of the military community is that again?
There have been many loss filled loved ones, rightly so, decrying the lack of body armour and the like (I was once one of those deemed worthy of receiving someone elses bpdy armour, so I can see it from both sides) and much much dignity.. more so than I would probably show. And frankly, you have no idea what my perspective or history is, yet you are all to quick to label me a HNG stoolie because I have the temerity to dissagree with you.
Frankly, kiss my arse.
Cheers.
Well, progress at last Al R. Some kind words for Chappie, and your invective aimed instead at MFAW, for whom I hold no brief, and myself which is water off a duck's back! So now perhaps it might be a good idea to re-read your posts, see where you might have jumped to the wrong conclusions about Chappie's post, and then apologise to her!