Too Fat to Fight!
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Too fit to fight....what a load of bo**o%ks!!!
get a life mr AMP/PTI/sad git!!!
care about your fitness = keep fit
Care about fitness and can do job but can't pass RAFFT=keep working hard on both counts
Can't do fitness test and sh%t at job=chuck out!!
I want a test for AMP/PTI = 10 hrs in a darkened room. vacuum cleaner on for 10 hrs. last hour bright light shining in face. Final hour co-ordination test and mental test.....2+2=? for AMP doh I mean PTI!
Get a life military top brass and admin losers let us do our jobs ('kin well) and stop the bull!!!!
care about your fitness = keep fit
Care about fitness and can do job but can't pass RAFFT=keep working hard on both counts
Can't do fitness test and sh%t at job=chuck out!!
I want a test for AMP/PTI = 10 hrs in a darkened room. vacuum cleaner on for 10 hrs. last hour bright light shining in face. Final hour co-ordination test and mental test.....2+2=? for AMP doh I mean PTI!
Get a life military top brass and admin losers let us do our jobs ('kin well) and stop the bull!!!!
NO OR's are, so if they want us to get fit, give us time to, in our PAID DUTY time.
Anyway, I dont care, 16 working weeks left
, then they can do what they like, when they like.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There are two points and many of you are missing the main one.
CAS want's people to take responsibility and do 3 periods of physical activity per week. full stop.
CinC says it is up to stn cdrs to see this happens. full stop
He goes on to say that stn cdrs will delegate to flt cdrs who will appoint PTLs.
Nowhere does it say 3 x 50 minutes exercise
However to use PTLs to monitor such exercise and to mandate that it will be 50 minutes implies that it will be work.
I believe there is also an insurance issue involved; for instance I believe the rules are different if you break your ankle doing voluntary jockstrapping on a Saturday, as opposed to organised sport.
In the winter, for day workers, there are no daylight hours for out of hours running. Many jockstrappers run at lunchtimes in lieu of lunch but surely you cannot 'cancel' lunch and substitute sports instead.
The CAS's wishes are feasible. The implementation may not be feasible and may create both administative overload, especially for the PTLs, and as people have said, as soon as it is mandated it becomes DUTY.
Now there could be one benefit. If the morning wave was cancelled 3 times per week it would be a big efficiency saving - very green.
CAS want's people to take responsibility and do 3 periods of physical activity per week. full stop.
CinC says it is up to stn cdrs to see this happens. full stop
He goes on to say that stn cdrs will delegate to flt cdrs who will appoint PTLs.
Nowhere does it say 3 x 50 minutes exercise
However to use PTLs to monitor such exercise and to mandate that it will be 50 minutes implies that it will be work.
I believe there is also an insurance issue involved; for instance I believe the rules are different if you break your ankle doing voluntary jockstrapping on a Saturday, as opposed to organised sport.
In the winter, for day workers, there are no daylight hours for out of hours running. Many jockstrappers run at lunchtimes in lieu of lunch but surely you cannot 'cancel' lunch and substitute sports instead.
The CAS's wishes are feasible. The implementation may not be feasible and may create both administative overload, especially for the PTLs, and as people have said, as soon as it is mandated it becomes DUTY.
Now there could be one benefit. If the morning wave was cancelled 3 times per week it would be a big efficiency saving - very green.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Pontius,
I hope you are correct.
What we need is a few captains/co-pilots to go down with the odd broken ankle or other injury, and suddenly the whole PTI-driven fitness test will be dead in the water.
In all my years in the mob, it wasn't the 'overweight' or 'unfit' guys that let the side (or crew) down; it was always the bloody stupid jock-strappers that had 'pulled a muscle' here or 'torn a ligament' there.
Unfortunately, the RAF (and prob the other services) doesn't have a medical service any longer that it can rely on to fix people who get injured playing sports. We can't even rely on the NHS to get us fixed in a reasonable time, so what happens? Simple, if the injury is serious enough, you will get binned!
I don't have a problem with people keeping fit, but this continuous enforcement of a fitter and leaner RAF has become a joke frankly. And as for getting the time off.....now lets see..........
Friday pm, looking for a SAR standby crew; 'Sorry Sir, count me out, I'm off to do a spot of jogging, haven't been able to do any this week yet'
Yeh, right.
TWOL, what Air Force do you work for then? paid 24 hours a day? You're having a laugh arn't you?
Kind regards to all
TSM
I hope you are correct.
What we need is a few captains/co-pilots to go down with the odd broken ankle or other injury, and suddenly the whole PTI-driven fitness test will be dead in the water.
In all my years in the mob, it wasn't the 'overweight' or 'unfit' guys that let the side (or crew) down; it was always the bloody stupid jock-strappers that had 'pulled a muscle' here or 'torn a ligament' there.
Unfortunately, the RAF (and prob the other services) doesn't have a medical service any longer that it can rely on to fix people who get injured playing sports. We can't even rely on the NHS to get us fixed in a reasonable time, so what happens? Simple, if the injury is serious enough, you will get binned!
I don't have a problem with people keeping fit, but this continuous enforcement of a fitter and leaner RAF has become a joke frankly. And as for getting the time off.....now lets see..........
Friday pm, looking for a SAR standby crew; 'Sorry Sir, count me out, I'm off to do a spot of jogging, haven't been able to do any this week yet'
Yeh, right.
TWOL, what Air Force do you work for then? paid 24 hours a day? You're having a laugh arn't you?
Kind regards to all
TSM
Join Date: Feb 2006
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ZH875, Unhappy with not being paid the minimum wage, is that why your leaving? Question... Why is it that if you don't care you felt compelled to make comment. All i can say is roll on the 16 weeks, people with this PAID DUTY i only work 9-5 or whetever shift i'm on attitude make me sick.
My only hope is that your an LAC because anything higher would suggesrt you would have to set an example to others and so far your attitude seems to suggest you wouldn't be up to the task!!!!!!
My only hope is that your an LAC because anything higher would suggesrt you would have to set an example to others and so far your attitude seems to suggest you wouldn't be up to the task!!!!!!
Yep, I couldn't agree more.
With the amalgamation of engineering trades, JPA (meaning become a part time shiney), Guard (become a part time snowdrop), PTL (become a part time musclemech) it wont be long before they have just two employment paths in the RAF - Waiters (waiting to leave) and leavers.
BTW, I work as many hours as is needed, and wherever it is needed, and unlike the anorexic racing snakes, I have never had a day off work in well over 25 years. SRENNAPS has it correct.
With the amalgamation of engineering trades, JPA (meaning become a part time shiney), Guard (become a part time snowdrop), PTL (become a part time musclemech) it wont be long before they have just two employment paths in the RAF - Waiters (waiting to leave) and leavers.
BTW, I work as many hours as is needed, and wherever it is needed, and unlike the anorexic racing snakes, I have never had a day off work in well over 25 years. SRENNAPS has it correct.
TAC Int Bloke
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Ah! The smell of jockstrappers getting a wendy on....... face facts, it's about airframes in the sky, not hanging out in gyms admiring other blokes (if that's your bag so be it - but not in the firm's time please). FYO TWOL8, most of the old blokes arguing against this errant fitness jamboree are what BAe so subtly describe as 'combat proven' aircrew and their (t)rusty groundcrew with more hours in service than a Shackelton has rivets - they might just know something you don't.....
Normal personal fitness = good
Enforced health fascism = bad
Fat and do your job well = salt of the earth
Jockstrapper with delusions of competency = waste of rats
Normal personal fitness = good
Enforced health fascism = bad
Fat and do your job well = salt of the earth
Jockstrapper with delusions of competency = waste of rats
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TWOL, I used to put duty beyond all.
Later I had a captain who thought time off to look after a sick wife was disloyal. Later, after he had a very serious illness and survived past 40, his attitude changed.
Even the air force acknowledged that one's attitudes and aspirations change over time. Under 30 you could do anything, would do anything, and relished detachments and deployments.
Over 40 you wanted to be home from time to time, like every day, to see the wife and kids as they grew up. You wanted your own home, you did not want to be posted every 2 years.
All I can say is that you will eventually realise that you are in the job for yourself and no one else. If you do not look to your rights, no one else will. The fact remains, not everyone has the 3 hours spare out of work. In one job, my away from home time, was 10 1/2 hrs per day and longer when I was flying. Mrs PN then expected some 'me' time too.
Sorry, it is not that easy.
Later I had a captain who thought time off to look after a sick wife was disloyal. Later, after he had a very serious illness and survived past 40, his attitude changed.
Even the air force acknowledged that one's attitudes and aspirations change over time. Under 30 you could do anything, would do anything, and relished detachments and deployments.
Over 40 you wanted to be home from time to time, like every day, to see the wife and kids as they grew up. You wanted your own home, you did not want to be posted every 2 years.
All I can say is that you will eventually realise that you are in the job for yourself and no one else. If you do not look to your rights, no one else will. The fact remains, not everyone has the 3 hours spare out of work. In one job, my away from home time, was 10 1/2 hrs per day and longer when I was flying. Mrs PN then expected some 'me' time too.
Sorry, it is not that easy.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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PN,
I do look after my own rights, i just happen to believe that the RAF sets standards and i should be able to attain them. Fitness is one of those standards. The fact is too many people pass fitness tests at Cranwell, then becauase they have little or no self discipline they become fat and lazy.
I will not let that happen to me as i have far too much pride.
Facts don't change the RAF has a fitness standard that all should achieve, it was there in black and white when you signed up. From memeory i dont think it said fitness standards become optional as you get older because we know your priorities change.!!!!!
I do look after my own rights, i just happen to believe that the RAF sets standards and i should be able to attain them. Fitness is one of those standards. The fact is too many people pass fitness tests at Cranwell, then becauase they have little or no self discipline they become fat and lazy.
I will not let that happen to me as i have far too much pride.
Facts don't change the RAF has a fitness standard that all should achieve, it was there in black and white when you signed up. From memeory i dont think it said fitness standards become optional as you get older because we know your priorities change.!!!!!
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I am returning to UK this year from an exchange tour and have no idea what the new fitness standrds actually are. Could someone in the know please post them here so I can see what all the fuss is about.
OBD
OBD
Off topic but ZH875 your comment: If we are paid 24/7, why are the government allowed to pay us well below the minimum wage, as only a Level 4 Major and above are paid a legal wage.
If you work 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, 52 weeks in the year at minimum wage (5.35 for 22 years old an above) you will earn £23,348 every one from a Level 1 Cpl up wards gets more than this.
For those 18 - 22 this equates to £19,491 which equates to JT/SAC level 7 up.
If you work 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, 52 weeks in the year at minimum wage (5.35 for 22 years old an above) you will earn £23,348 every one from a Level 1 Cpl up wards gets more than this.
For those 18 - 22 this equates to £19,491 which equates to JT/SAC level 7 up.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Twol8, don't disagree with anything you said. The point is that the requirement for a complusory 3x50 does not accord with what CAS is reported to have required and seems wholly impractible on an organised basis unless fit to fight comes first and fly to fight comes second.
As soon as you make it a complusory set then the whole rule set changes.
If you read what I posted about Edward Leigh you will see that there will be no money for facilities.
The acid test is whether you can pass the fitness test. Where I could do the 1.5 mile run, in time, and without training then demonstrably I needed to take no additional exercise; others couldn't and didn't. If you want to improve general fitness then indeed the test should be made harder year by year so that people do have to do additional exercise.
However two things remain. One is why are there sex differences. The other is what standard? The new tests have not, as far as I know, been decided.
As soon as you make it a complusory set then the whole rule set changes.
If you read what I posted about Edward Leigh you will see that there will be no money for facilities.
The acid test is whether you can pass the fitness test. Where I could do the 1.5 mile run, in time, and without training then demonstrably I needed to take no additional exercise; others couldn't and didn't. If you want to improve general fitness then indeed the test should be made harder year by year so that people do have to do additional exercise.
However two things remain. One is why are there sex differences. The other is what standard? The new tests have not, as far as I know, been decided.
TWOL
Facts don't change the RAF has a fitness standard that all should achieve, it was there in black and white when you signed up.
Facts don't change the RAF has a fitness standard that all should achieve, it was there in black and white when you signed up.
If the RAF want people to be fit then it should be done in work time. Wednesday afternoons for sport anyone? Now that was in when I signed!!!
Off topic but ZH875 your comment: If we are paid 24/7, why are the government allowed to pay us well below the minimum wage, as only a Level 4 Major and above are paid a legal wage.
If you work 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, 52 weeks in the year at minimum wage (5.35 for 22 years old an above) you will earn £23,348 every one from a Level 1 Cpl up wards gets more than this.
For those 18 - 22 this equates to £19,491 which equates to JT/SAC level 7 up.
If you work 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, 52 weeks in the year at minimum wage (5.35 for 22 years old an above) you will earn £23,348 every one from a Level 1 Cpl up wards gets more than this.
For those 18 - 22 this equates to £19,491 which equates to JT/SAC level 7 up.
Maybe, if the RAF had set a standard, then provided the time to achieve it, people would not be complaining. No time off when the flying plan is stretched to the limit, and the groundcrew leaned,
When I was on 12hr shifts at the Wilts airbase, my 12hrs was actually 13+, due to Handover/Takeover briefs, and there was no way that I was going to turn that into a 14+ hour day just to add to the menial statistics.
PN, I am sure the new levels have been set, the TOEU has a copy on their groundies notice board.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ZH, thanks you for that. Same PTIs I guess so I am waiting for them to get around and tell me.
Given the standards, how are you to achieve the aim then?
Given the standards, how are you to achieve the aim then?
"Wednesday afternoons for sport anyone? Now that was in when I signed!!!"
No it wasn't! Wednesday sports afternnoons disappeared when Saturday morning flying disappeared - which was before ven my time!
I hold with the sage old RAAF view:
"If you want to get yourself fitter, sport, get yourself a heavier glass!"
The RAF must be such a fun place these days, run by gym queens and rockapes.......
No it wasn't! Wednesday sports afternnoons disappeared when Saturday morning flying disappeared - which was before ven my time!
I hold with the sage old RAAF view:
"If you want to get yourself fitter, sport, get yourself a heavier glass!"
The RAF must be such a fun place these days, run by gym queens and rockapes.......
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I think it's a good thing that the powers that B want us fitter, if it works in work time then fine if not then do it in your own, fitness is an absoulte given in the forces fact! as for the equality issue with regards to women I also agree that it is wrong! I am not avoiding anything Maple and would like to see them compete at an equal level.
The fact still remains though that personnel aren't fit enough as a whole in the RAF, Men and Women alike.
Yes they should be equal, they should all be doing more to a higher level!
I think you should remove all the mirrors in gyms you won't find me posing in front of one! I said we should be fitter not Meat heads who do weights! I am talking about circuits and running outside, no specialist equipment no fancy kit just higher heat rates more often!
The only thing that gets a lot of heart rates up at the mo is waddling to the mess!
The fact still remains though that personnel aren't fit enough as a whole in the RAF, Men and Women alike.
Yes they should be equal, they should all be doing more to a higher level!
I think you should remove all the mirrors in gyms you won't find me posing in front of one! I said we should be fitter not Meat heads who do weights! I am talking about circuits and running outside, no specialist equipment no fancy kit just higher heat rates more often!
The only thing that gets a lot of heart rates up at the mo is waddling to the mess!
Remember the old days of the Station Bicycle Store? And I don't mean the WRAF block...
Pedalling about the station kept a few folk reasonably fit - but then someone decided that the Stn Bike Stores had to go as yet another defence cut. Although they didn't disappear from the blue clearance cards until many years later!
Also, at Honington in Buccaneer days, if you lived in the OM you weren't allowed to drive to work - you had to walk. Everyone who lived out had a numbered car parking spot and had to leave their cars there and walk.
Pedalling about the station kept a few folk reasonably fit - but then someone decided that the Stn Bike Stores had to go as yet another defence cut. Although they didn't disappear from the blue clearance cards until many years later!
Also, at Honington in Buccaneer days, if you lived in the OM you weren't allowed to drive to work - you had to walk. Everyone who lived out had a numbered car parking spot and had to leave their cars there and walk.
Last edited by BEagle; 26th Mar 2007 at 11:00.
Hellbound
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Again the direction we are getting is woolly and unhelpful. What is needed is the following:
1. A clear definition of a standard that generically demonstrates the fitness requirement required to do our war roles. This should be non-gender specific, non-age specific. Certain roles might require a greater level of fitness.
2. An explaination of the standard to the troops (just to appease those of you out there that don't understand why you should be a certain standard of fitness).
3. Introduction of the standard over a realistic timescale, allowing people sufficient time to train for it.
4. Realistic, career limiting sanctions against those that do not achieve the standard.
Make the training classes and facilities available, make the importance very clear and then let individuals get on with it, enough of this nanny state nonsence. CFT would do the trick IMHO, but might be over the top - not for me to decide, but all of us should be prepared to fight and run away. Anyone that thinks otherwise has no imagination.
1. A clear definition of a standard that generically demonstrates the fitness requirement required to do our war roles. This should be non-gender specific, non-age specific. Certain roles might require a greater level of fitness.
2. An explaination of the standard to the troops (just to appease those of you out there that don't understand why you should be a certain standard of fitness).
3. Introduction of the standard over a realistic timescale, allowing people sufficient time to train for it.
4. Realistic, career limiting sanctions against those that do not achieve the standard.
Make the training classes and facilities available, make the importance very clear and then let individuals get on with it, enough of this nanny state nonsence. CFT would do the trick IMHO, but might be over the top - not for me to decide, but all of us should be prepared to fight and run away. Anyone that thinks otherwise has no imagination.