LMF
Virgo,,
Comparing the casualty rates of other wars and campaigns, the treatment of "LMF" cases, and current events is an unfair comparison.
Bomber Command and the US bomber crews were suffering huge losses. How may times do you roll the dice before you start considering the odds?
With the advent of modern psychological studies of "Shell Shock", "Battle Fatique" or nowadays....."PTSD", much knowledge has been gained on the correct methods of treatment for that.
Pinning a White Feather on the person, demoting them in rank, assigning them to menial tasks as a punishment is the exact wrong way of handling the problem.
A few days rest, good hot meals, a hot shower....clean clothes...basically a decent respite from combat duty works miracles.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is real. PTSD can be a very debilitating problem over time if not treated correctly. We are all, each and every one of us, susceptible to PTSD given the right kind of exposure to horrific events stemming from combat or tragedy/catastrophe.
One does not develop PTSD prior to exposure however.....a sudden onset of a great allergic reaction to having one's butt filled with fast moving junks of metal or bullets is not PTSD but plain old FEAR. Courage is not the absence of fear but rather being able to cope with fear and still carry out one's duties.
It takes a complete fool to suggest a soldier who has campaigned for months and/or years is a coward because he just cannot summon up the courage to continue. In time, we all have our breaking points.
Proper leadership will recognize the onset of this failure of spirit and take effective measures to mitigate or resolve the problem. Done the right way, the soldier will be able to return to combat duty and carry on as before.
Do a bit of Google rambling on PTSD and you will find a wealth of information here in the States. Our Veteran's Administration (VA) finally admitted to themselves this PTSD thing is real and has begun to effectively address those problems suffered by our Veterans.
The British Military can learn something from us on this....as taking care of your Veterans seems to be a rather sad situation of late.
After you read up on PTSD....compare what is known and discussed today and compare it to those dark days during WWII. It will be an eye opener I think.
Cowardice still deserves a Feather....but not those that had borne their share of the fighting.
Pilots flying transports did not have the "LMF" rate hard hit Bomber Command Squadrons did I will bet you. So how does one define a "Fair Share"?
Comparing the casualty rates of other wars and campaigns, the treatment of "LMF" cases, and current events is an unfair comparison.
Bomber Command and the US bomber crews were suffering huge losses. How may times do you roll the dice before you start considering the odds?
With the advent of modern psychological studies of "Shell Shock", "Battle Fatique" or nowadays....."PTSD", much knowledge has been gained on the correct methods of treatment for that.
Pinning a White Feather on the person, demoting them in rank, assigning them to menial tasks as a punishment is the exact wrong way of handling the problem.
A few days rest, good hot meals, a hot shower....clean clothes...basically a decent respite from combat duty works miracles.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) is real. PTSD can be a very debilitating problem over time if not treated correctly. We are all, each and every one of us, susceptible to PTSD given the right kind of exposure to horrific events stemming from combat or tragedy/catastrophe.
One does not develop PTSD prior to exposure however.....a sudden onset of a great allergic reaction to having one's butt filled with fast moving junks of metal or bullets is not PTSD but plain old FEAR. Courage is not the absence of fear but rather being able to cope with fear and still carry out one's duties.
It takes a complete fool to suggest a soldier who has campaigned for months and/or years is a coward because he just cannot summon up the courage to continue. In time, we all have our breaking points.
Proper leadership will recognize the onset of this failure of spirit and take effective measures to mitigate or resolve the problem. Done the right way, the soldier will be able to return to combat duty and carry on as before.
Do a bit of Google rambling on PTSD and you will find a wealth of information here in the States. Our Veteran's Administration (VA) finally admitted to themselves this PTSD thing is real and has begun to effectively address those problems suffered by our Veterans.
The British Military can learn something from us on this....as taking care of your Veterans seems to be a rather sad situation of late.
After you read up on PTSD....compare what is known and discussed today and compare it to those dark days during WWII. It will be an eye opener I think.
Cowardice still deserves a Feather....but not those that had borne their share of the fighting.
Pilots flying transports did not have the "LMF" rate hard hit Bomber Command Squadrons did I will bet you. So how does one define a "Fair Share"?
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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We had an individual on LXX Sqn at the start of GW1 who put his hand up and said not for me ta. Airmen Aircrew, he was simply discharged under LMF and was off the Sqn the same day. He was recently in the national news for saving the lives of some children in a house fire.
There were a number of reinforcee FC's who were recalled from the bunker at startex GW2 who arrived on the Sqn and did exactly the same. They were sent back to the bunkers and one has since been promoted!
Strange game this life eh?
The RAF has recognised and treated PTSD for number of years and did have, when I served, excellent facilities at BZN. Whilst the Medics have a very good "cure" rate an individual who has suffered from PTSD never quite goes back to the way they were before. Yes the physical and mental symptoms appear to go away, but the experience that brought it on remains in the forefront. I always used to say, in my young immature days that PTSD was curtain syndrome, all they had to do was pull themselves together. I know differently now.
Can't speak for the other Services.
There were a number of reinforcee FC's who were recalled from the bunker at startex GW2 who arrived on the Sqn and did exactly the same. They were sent back to the bunkers and one has since been promoted!
Strange game this life eh?
The RAF has recognised and treated PTSD for number of years and did have, when I served, excellent facilities at BZN. Whilst the Medics have a very good "cure" rate an individual who has suffered from PTSD never quite goes back to the way they were before. Yes the physical and mental symptoms appear to go away, but the experience that brought it on remains in the forefront. I always used to say, in my young immature days that PTSD was curtain syndrome, all they had to do was pull themselves together. I know differently now.
Can't speak for the other Services.
Last edited by The Gorilla; 4th Oct 2006 at 17:38.
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Public apology to all on this thread for typing when pissed. Looking back on what I wrote, it wasn't a tangent, it was inter-galactic. Embarrassing.
Thanks for not flaming me as I should have been (QFIman). Can't promise it won't happen again.
Soz
Thanks for not flaming me as I should have been (QFIman). Can't promise it won't happen again.
Soz
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Hey good on you Monty. It takes a man to fess up and apologise.
It's easy to drink and post, I've done it a few times myself. (As is usually evident in some of my own foul mouthed late night beer fuelled postings!)
Anyway, cheers for explaining.
It's easy to drink and post, I've done it a few times myself. (As is usually evident in some of my own foul mouthed late night beer fuelled postings!)
Anyway, cheers for explaining.
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Just out of interest. The Short Stirling bomber crews operating during the winter 1943-1944 during the Battle of Berlin were encountering casualty rates of 10-20% per raid. They had to complete a first tour of thirty missions before being "rested" and then they had to return for a second tour of twenty missions before being permenantly grounded. If they volunteered for Pathfinder duties their first tour was sixty missions prior to being rested. I know a few chaps who served with Bomber Command and they tell me that they encounted LMF very rarely. They were without doubt the "Bravest of the Brave"
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I had the opportunity to speak with a Lancaster tail gunner recently. He recalled how before one mission the had been an uneasyness amongst the crew before the mission. They boarded the bomber and managed to get airborne but they were lagging slightly behind the bomber stream. The aircraft was misbehaving and she got slower . Nobody said anything over the i/c - everyone was starting to realise that they would be sitting targets once over Germany.
Thought's of being cast as 'LMF' went through my friend's mind - he didn't want to suggest it however .
The silence was broken by the i/c springing to life
" I think we better turn back" said the skipper - an audible sigh of relief spread amongst the crew .
Thought's of being cast as 'LMF' went through my friend's mind - he didn't want to suggest it however .
The silence was broken by the i/c springing to life
" I think we better turn back" said the skipper - an audible sigh of relief spread amongst the crew .
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We had an individual on LXX Sqn at the start of GW1 who put his hand up and said not for me ta. Airmen Aircrew, he was simply discharged under LMF and was off the Sqn the same day.
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GlassHE/MaxB
GHE - you obviously did know him; Max - the syptoms of migraine came on very rapidly (and presumably disappeared just as quickly once out of theatre). The odd thing is that he never suffered from the condition (or at least didn't complain of it) during peacetime squadron flying, and his coffee consumption was not much different then.
GHE - you obviously did know him; Max - the syptoms of migraine came on very rapidly (and presumably disappeared just as quickly once out of theatre). The odd thing is that he never suffered from the condition (or at least didn't complain of it) during peacetime squadron flying, and his coffee consumption was not much different then.
