Scrap the RAF
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I joined the Royal Air Force not the RN or the Army (well actually I was in the RGJ's until I saw he light). I'm sure that any right-minded employment lawyer would make mince meat of an MoD attempting to force RAF personnel into serving under another branch of the military.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Navaleye is quite correct. Under TUPE you would be offered the chance to transfer if your job, under your new employer, existed in substantially the same form. If you chose not to accept you are assumed to have opted to leave. You would retain your pension rights to date but would be entitled only to working your notice.
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TUPE does not apply to servicemen. If it did it would be very difficult to write availability contracts giving our second line work to industry! TUPE does apply to our Civil Serpants and is therefore a big stumbling block for availability contracts. Anyway, the RAF isn't going anywhere for quite some time yet so it's irrelevant.
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1st Independant Air Force
Nit PIcking Mode - On
IIRC the RAF wasn't first independant air force, I think it was the Italian Air Force, but standing by to be corrected.
Nit Picking Mode - Off
IIRC the RAF wasn't first independant air force, I think it was the Italian Air Force, but standing by to be corrected.
Nit Picking Mode - Off
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Could Be Good though
I've seen people mentioning the Vietnamese as a reason why it wouldn't work, but just because they got it wrong, doesn't mean that it can't work. It's almost like saying Chelsea can't use the 4-3-2-1 formation because West Brom got relagated using it. Well if you've got better player's, better coaches, better management and more cash, you can win a league with that formation. Before people start picking me up on that comparison, it is merely an example of the point that just because someone else got it wrong, doess't mean we would.
And for the people who make the points about the Army not knowing what to do with a/c. Well...if the RAF was absorbed into the Army then of course the RAF would bring all their expertise and lessons learned with them and use that to the advantage of the military as a whole.
The guy who made the point about "Joint" and JPA has a good point....it does seem to be the way things are going so it may happen in the future. I'm not saying it will, or should, just "may", and the RAF/Army shouldn't be narrow minded about it - again, before someone quotes that, Im not saying that the RAF/Army as a whole are being narrow minded about it, but certainly it seems alot of people in this forum are (mainly RAF I pressume).
And for the people who make the points about the Army not knowing what to do with a/c. Well...if the RAF was absorbed into the Army then of course the RAF would bring all their expertise and lessons learned with them and use that to the advantage of the military as a whole.
The guy who made the point about "Joint" and JPA has a good point....it does seem to be the way things are going so it may happen in the future. I'm not saying it will, or should, just "may", and the RAF/Army shouldn't be narrow minded about it - again, before someone quotes that, Im not saying that the RAF/Army as a whole are being narrow minded about it, but certainly it seems alot of people in this forum are (mainly RAF I pressume).
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Fair point but it would only last for about 10 years. The "expertise" would then align itself to the Service with the most investment in the joint "Force". Flexibility and recognition of the uniqueness of the air battle space would be lost. The aircraft would again be Army's mobile artillery and the Navy's additional weapon system. We've already had experience of air assets being under-utilised by submariners.
JFH is a success then? Well I suppose standardising on mudmovers has helped. Before we confuse banter with petty single service rivalry, it may be worth remembering why the RAF was formed. Jan Smuts was not an idiot and saw how things would progress. Do we want to now argue that he, Sykes et al had it wrong then? If that's the case, I'm certainly glad that we got the 2nd World War and the Cold War out of the way first.
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JFH is a success then? Well I suppose standardising on mudmovers has helped. Before we confuse banter with petty single service rivalry, it may be worth remembering why the RAF was formed. Jan Smuts was not an idiot and saw how things would progress. Do we want to now argue that he, Sykes et al had it wrong then? If that's the case, I'm certainly glad that we got the 2nd World War and the Cold War out of the way first.
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Sack the Crabs...No, How else would we get an overnight stop on the p1ss in Cyprus because of some lame excuse that the Tristar has bird sh1t on the wind screen. SAC Fcuknuts has knocked off for the night so now onward travel allowed and they are out of hours........because they got up at 0600hrs and missed breakfast.
Stand by its on its way, soon JHC will have its own cap badge!!!!
Stand by its on its way, soon JHC will have its own cap badge!!!!
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better late than never
Having missed this thread the first time around...
"I've also spent considerable time defending my ground crews from silly bloody WO's and Majors who wanted them parading around in full uniform with spit shined boots while sweating their arses off working on aircraft in the open in tropical conditions."
How true, in 1986 I was a Sgt in Headquarters & Maintenance Squadron 13 (USMC)... which provided second-tier maintenance for 2 A-6E, 4 A-4M, and 1 KC-130 squadrons.
We got a new Sgt Major... fresh from Infantry via Embassy Duty. He was horrified by our lack of training in the essentials of "Grunt Marine", and proceeded to institute all sorts of PT (daily, during normal working hours), leadership training, etc. to "make us better Marines"... including changing the weekly "working uniform inspection" to a daily one, with other uniforms being worn for inspection once a week.
He was especially disappointed that the 365 E-4 & 5 NCOs were "not properly supervising the E-3 & below enlisted (all 375 of them) on liberty"... despite the fact that there was no formal liberty on MCAS El Toro (southern California), as all personnel were considered "on liberty" any time they were not at work or in the active "duty section".
This all used up ~15 hours of our normal 40 hours per week of work time.
It all came to a head when the 3rd Marine Air Wing CG came over for the monthly flight hours needed to keep his flight status... and all of the aircraft he was qualified on were "down". It seems that the engines that went in that type were all in for repair... and the techs were all out doing their training!
The next morning the Sgt. Major found another Sgt. Major in his office... with orders for him to report to the 3rd MAW CO for "reassignment"!
"I've also spent considerable time defending my ground crews from silly bloody WO's and Majors who wanted them parading around in full uniform with spit shined boots while sweating their arses off working on aircraft in the open in tropical conditions."
How true, in 1986 I was a Sgt in Headquarters & Maintenance Squadron 13 (USMC)... which provided second-tier maintenance for 2 A-6E, 4 A-4M, and 1 KC-130 squadrons.
We got a new Sgt Major... fresh from Infantry via Embassy Duty. He was horrified by our lack of training in the essentials of "Grunt Marine", and proceeded to institute all sorts of PT (daily, during normal working hours), leadership training, etc. to "make us better Marines"... including changing the weekly "working uniform inspection" to a daily one, with other uniforms being worn for inspection once a week.
He was especially disappointed that the 365 E-4 & 5 NCOs were "not properly supervising the E-3 & below enlisted (all 375 of them) on liberty"... despite the fact that there was no formal liberty on MCAS El Toro (southern California), as all personnel were considered "on liberty" any time they were not at work or in the active "duty section".
This all used up ~15 hours of our normal 40 hours per week of work time.
It all came to a head when the 3rd Marine Air Wing CG came over for the monthly flight hours needed to keep his flight status... and all of the aircraft he was qualified on were "down". It seems that the engines that went in that type were all in for repair... and the techs were all out doing their training!
The next morning the Sgt. Major found another Sgt. Major in his office... with orders for him to report to the 3rd MAW CO for "reassignment"!
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'Warfighter first, tradesman second' 
That'll be why so many in the RAF spend shed loads of time learning their trade but only one day a year playing silly buggers in greens then is it?
Roll on 31/10/07.
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That'll be why so many in the RAF spend shed loads of time learning their trade but only one day a year playing silly buggers in greens then is it?
Roll on 31/10/07.
Please note, 'The Helpful Stacker' is a non-commercial enterprise and as such any adverts placed against his post are done so against his will. Placement does not signify endorsement of said products or services.
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I am disappointed, Helpful, from 'your' add I thought you had branched out into 'procuring' as part of your resettlement - now that IS helpful stacking!
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Is that the plan? cover the Army shortfall from the ranks of a disbanded RAF? We could always hire in Contractors to fill the resultant gap. After all, the MoD priority is the "here and now" at the risk of future operations.
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Armed forces should train for the type of role they may have to undertake so RAF personel should only have to practice base defence as far as getting all CS95'd up.
There is no real need for you guys to get all cammed up and dirty, other than the odd convoy protection duty. I agree that your formost objective is to keep those lumps of metal going 'up tiddly up up'.
There is no real need for you guys to get all cammed up and dirty, other than the odd convoy protection duty. I agree that your formost objective is to keep those lumps of metal going 'up tiddly up up'.
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I'm not joining the Army, I worked too hard at school and I'm not quite that stupid 
Why run around in a field playing soldiers when I can sit at home and watch TV when I'm not flying.
Why run around in a field playing soldiers when I can sit at home and watch TV when I'm not flying.
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Now I wear the coveted grey/blue.
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Ahhhhh the old 'people that wear green are thick' jibe? Congratulations, you may not be stupid but you are incredibly ignorant. Mind you I guess the fact that your young and have no experience of life could be an excuse.