Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
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Aircraft may have been theoretically out of range of taliban missiles AMSL, but there is a lot of high ground around Kandahar, and perhaps there may be significantly less slant range AGL if that high ground is in lateral proximity, just a thought......By the way in the same way that the Taleban are likely to claim a hit even if that is not the case, are MOD not just as likely to deny it if it is the cause ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ah yes, forgot how high the plains of Kandarhar are. At least 1500 feet higher than the city.
Well on the Google flat earth that is.
Well on the Google flat earth that is.
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
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During my Veritas missions 01 to 03 we used to AAR in that area. Most of the mountains around there are >= 18,000 feet. On many occasions they spent days climbing to the top too fire off a manpad at various juicy targets! None of them were AFIK were hit.
I believe the Taliban to be evil loathsome, lying creatures who would kill me given the slightest chance if they could profit from it. However, sadly, I also believe that to be true of the British Government.
I believe the Taliban to be evil loathsome, lying creatures who would kill me given the slightest chance if they could profit from it. However, sadly, I also believe that to be true of the British Government.
Last edited by The Gorilla; 5th Sep 2006 at 19:49. Reason: poor spelling
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Gorilla, true there are high mountains and the initial location might have been near one, but, from the limited resources I have here it looks pretty flat for about 100 miles around K. Flat for Afghanistan that is not Lincolnshire flat. Can you say where your high ground was in relation to K?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Janes: Crashed RAF Nimrod identified
The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) BAE Systems Nimrod MR.2 maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft that crashed in Afghanistan on 2 September, killing 14 personnel on board, has been identified by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) as aircraft XV230.
The Nimrod, which an MoD official said was likely to have crashed because of "technical difficulties", had undergone depot-level maintenance two months prior to the incident, an industry source told Jane's. The official said the aircraft was on a reconnaissance mission at the time but that it could also serve as a communications relay platform.
Nimrod XV230 was one of six equipped with an L-3 Wescam MX-15 electro-optical turret in 2003. A further urgent operational requirement, known as Project Broadsword, was implemented in early 2006 and introduced the capability to transmit real-time video imagery from the MX-15 to ground stations and commanders.
The UK Royal Air Force (RAF) BAE Systems Nimrod MR.2 maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft that crashed in Afghanistan on 2 September, killing 14 personnel on board, has been identified by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) as aircraft XV230.
The Nimrod, which an MoD official said was likely to have crashed because of "technical difficulties", had undergone depot-level maintenance two months prior to the incident, an industry source told Jane's. The official said the aircraft was on a reconnaissance mission at the time but that it could also serve as a communications relay platform.
Nimrod XV230 was one of six equipped with an L-3 Wescam MX-15 electro-optical turret in 2003. A further urgent operational requirement, known as Project Broadsword, was implemented in early 2006 and introduced the capability to transmit real-time video imagery from the MX-15 to ground stations and commanders.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
So the 27 year old aircraft turns out to have been the 27 yr old Mk 2 having been a Mk 1 for perhaps 8 years previous.
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AgentSmithMatrix,
I feel that you are somewhat deluded regarding your concept of UK Military Operations and totally ignorant with regard to British Military Aircraft and their capabilities.
The only way you would be able to deploy "Special Forces" from a Nimrod would be to load them in the Weapons Bay and drop them out at what seemed a suitable moment: this, of course, would be totally against the "Health & Safety at Work Act"and would require several months of negotiation, training and assessment by the various regulatory bodies introduced over the last few years before even a limited assessment of required modifications to both Men and Equipment could be forthcoming.
There would then have to be a series of Trials to assess the suitability of the Modifications in various climatic conditions and release configurations with particular attention to inadvertant weapon discharge prior to landing.
This should usefully occupy at least a score of UK Civil Servants for several decades until the requirement for such equipment had long passed.
If such a system is required in the future; then I would suggest that you plan on its use not before W W 6.
I feel that you are somewhat deluded regarding your concept of UK Military Operations and totally ignorant with regard to British Military Aircraft and their capabilities.
The only way you would be able to deploy "Special Forces" from a Nimrod would be to load them in the Weapons Bay and drop them out at what seemed a suitable moment: this, of course, would be totally against the "Health & Safety at Work Act"and would require several months of negotiation, training and assessment by the various regulatory bodies introduced over the last few years before even a limited assessment of required modifications to both Men and Equipment could be forthcoming.
There would then have to be a series of Trials to assess the suitability of the Modifications in various climatic conditions and release configurations with particular attention to inadvertant weapon discharge prior to landing.
This should usefully occupy at least a score of UK Civil Servants for several decades until the requirement for such equipment had long passed.
If such a system is required in the future; then I would suggest that you plan on its use not before W W 6.
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He Who Dares Wins
The Operation details would and SHOULD be a secret so other operations are not compromised.
Hence the cover story.
With Special Forces people on board it is likely the aircraft could have been operating at any height. Afghani reports say the aircraft was high 10,000ft (see quote above)That is within the range of a Stinger missile. The flares could have been trying to decoy a number of missiles being fired by the Taliban.
Latest reports say the Nimrod had just refuelled. Why is this piece of information suddenly added ?
Hence the cover story.
With Special Forces people on board it is likely the aircraft could have been operating at any height. Afghani reports say the aircraft was high 10,000ft (see quote above)That is within the range of a Stinger missile. The flares could have been trying to decoy a number of missiles being fired by the Taliban.
Latest reports say the Nimrod had just refuelled. Why is this piece of information suddenly added ?
I'm sorry , but where did you get the "Special Forces " bit from, I get the feeling some people who post replies on this forum have been watching too many war films and not been getting out enough.
Also, I imagine that the piece of information regarding AAR has only just been added because it has only just come to light, or it has only just been deemed to possibly have some significance.
CRpx Good!
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Apparently, the A/c called at FL250 to advise that had an emergency and they were diverting to Kandahar, then apparently another call was made around FL100 at this point - and let me stress it's unconfirmed - a drone was sent up to witness events on film.
It maybe total rubbish, but.....
It maybe total rubbish, but.....
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Drone
Darkstar,
If you have an emergency, concerning a fire, you would initiate immediately a rapid rate of descent, possibly 4000ft per minute, I dont know how far the div would have been, but ( mountainous terrain allowing ), I would imagine the planned landing would be max 20 mins away, no time for a drone I would suggest, unless there was one airborne already, who knows?
CR Px Good
If you have an emergency, concerning a fire, you would initiate immediately a rapid rate of descent, possibly 4000ft per minute, I dont know how far the div would have been, but ( mountainous terrain allowing ), I would imagine the planned landing would be max 20 mins away, no time for a drone I would suggest, unless there was one airborne already, who knows?
CR Px Good
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All
Were the emergency one where fire, or even smoke were concerned, my sympathy and feeling stretches only further. The only time I have personally felt that my number was up was in a situation with the afformentioned on board an aircraft. It really is a nasty situation as I am sure you can imagine. This I would only say on this thread and no other as I cant even begin to imagine what those poor families must be going through.
One wishes when something such as this happens, that it may be quick, but until it happens one doesnt know, all I say is never begrudge those guys their flying pay again, god knows they deserve it!.
Clear Right, Px Good!
One wishes when something such as this happens, that it may be quick, but until it happens one doesnt know, all I say is never begrudge those guys their flying pay again, god knows they deserve it!.
Clear Right, Px Good!
Last edited by Clear Right,Px Good!; 5th Sep 2006 at 23:03. Reason: Speeling Mistaik
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
rmax, thanks for that. I found the airfield and plates but could not make out the heights on the plates.
The airfield is also about 3300 feet and due west the plain seems to drop to about 2500 feet.
From what you say the best would be a height gain of 5000 feet and a lucky shot for the aircraft to have been near high ground and low enough for a hit.
The airfield is also about 3300 feet and due west the plain seems to drop to about 2500 feet.
From what you say the best would be a height gain of 5000 feet and a lucky shot for the aircraft to have been near high ground and low enough for a hit.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
What a forlorn hope for accuracy from the media.
Today's Daily Telegraph - letter from David Wragg, author, Jane's Air Forces of the World.
Original plan 38 Nimrods - true.
Now only 14 in service - may be true
Only 12 MR3 to enter service.
MR3?
What about the additional 8 XZ series to bring the fleet up to 46?
Or the 11 withdrawn to the AEW programme.
Or the one that had its sting removed and windows blanked off?
On my maths that leaves 17 Mk 2.
Today's Daily Telegraph - letter from David Wragg, author, Jane's Air Forces of the World.
Original plan 38 Nimrods - true.
Now only 14 in service - may be true
Only 12 MR3 to enter service.
MR3?
What about the additional 8 XZ series to bring the fleet up to 46?
Or the 11 withdrawn to the AEW programme.
Or the one that had its sting removed and windows blanked off?
On my maths that leaves 17 Mk 2.