Why Nobody Likes RAF Police
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Originally Posted by I Sp[r]y
the less ambitious of us in the CI / Computer Security world (i.e the community that accredited Typhoon systems - Windows NT ??!!) tend to gravitate toward similar Information Assurance activites when the white cap is finally hung up.
Most examples of RAFP 'information assurance' I have come across are the many times on far-flung dets where you see the duty scuffer sitting at one of the (few) welfare internet terminals for hours on end - checking to see if the troops are surfing for porn. Who cares??!?!? Do you actually spend any time at all checking to see what the local websites/papers/media are saying about us? Spend time assessing the actual threat to our personnel? Not from the evidence I've seen - seems to be more about catching our own lads at it.
SBG
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Originally Posted by Mike Jenvey
plus the standard NAAFI fights - luv the Rocks!! 
),
),Even when they eventually got him there he took one out with a fire extinguisher and it took a few more of Bruggen's finest to get him in the cells. Ahhh! Happy days.
I was ear-witness to this exchange on the Puma OCU mid-90s. Excuse me if the details seemly blurry or less funny than I remember.
RAFP FS is investigating low flying complaint from N Yorks. Talking on speaker phone to the trip's auth, who is crouched on his orthopedic backwards chair half-reading a Landrover magazine whilst listening to the scuffer. Now read on...
"Flt Lt [Parts]. We tracked your crew's aircraft flying over Mrs H's farm near Spadeadam at well under 250'. In fact he jinked violently in order to fly over the farm".
Parts: "How do you know how high he was?"
"We tracked him with our mobile radar".
"And You've seen the auth sheets for what he was doing?"
"Yes Sir. EW training"
"So on the way to an Electronic Warfare range for some Electronic Warfare evasion training a helicopter gets locked up by radar and starts evading. Sounds pretty normal to me. Indeed if you hadn't locked him up he wouldn't have started evading so we could say you caused the incident. And remind me again how low was he?"
"We tracked him as low as 133' Sir [smugly]"
"Well that's not very good is it?"
"No Sir"
"He was authed down to 50'. No wonder you prats locked him up. I'll have words. Anything else?"
"Umm No Sir"
"Good. Get Lost"
Click Burr. Parts: "C--t."
RAFP FS is investigating low flying complaint from N Yorks. Talking on speaker phone to the trip's auth, who is crouched on his orthopedic backwards chair half-reading a Landrover magazine whilst listening to the scuffer. Now read on...
"Flt Lt [Parts]. We tracked your crew's aircraft flying over Mrs H's farm near Spadeadam at well under 250'. In fact he jinked violently in order to fly over the farm".
Parts: "How do you know how high he was?"
"We tracked him with our mobile radar".
"And You've seen the auth sheets for what he was doing?"
"Yes Sir. EW training"
"So on the way to an Electronic Warfare range for some Electronic Warfare evasion training a helicopter gets locked up by radar and starts evading. Sounds pretty normal to me. Indeed if you hadn't locked him up he wouldn't have started evading so we could say you caused the incident. And remind me again how low was he?"
"We tracked him as low as 133' Sir [smugly]"
"Well that's not very good is it?"
"No Sir"
"He was authed down to 50'. No wonder you prats locked him up. I'll have words. Anything else?"
"Umm No Sir"
"Good. Get Lost"
Click Burr. Parts: "C--t."
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I was in the movements hangar in Northern Ireland in 1990 when a load of squaddies came in complete with weapons as they were being taken out by Herc. The thing that had me almost needing hospitalisation for broken ribs was that the copper by the security scanning machine made the lads put their SA80s through the scanner. One grunt NCO said "what the F**K do you want me to put a gun through the scanner for?? You know its a gun what do you expect to find?? Maybe i have hidden a suitcase in my Gun!' The two acting Cpl coppers looked suitably embarressed and one said 'We are told to scan everything please put your gun in the scanner'
Boulmer around 2001.
RAFP managed to put his noddy car into field upside down and redecorated interior with pizzas he was bringing to the duty shift (while attempting to get them back from Alnwick still hot). We didn't laugh much (Plod was okay although covered in pizza).
Or the other one who tested the submerged capability of a brand new Astra with blue light in a ford (sic) passable only in a landrover.
RAFP managed to put his noddy car into field upside down and redecorated interior with pizzas he was bringing to the duty shift (while attempting to get them back from Alnwick still hot). We didn't laugh much (Plod was okay although covered in pizza).
Or the other one who tested the submerged capability of a brand new Astra with blue light in a ford (sic) passable only in a landrover.
Last edited by Big Unit Specialist; 10th Jul 2006 at 17:35.
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Hey green slime boy.
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Maple, old chum. Do they tend to sit next to you on buses as well? I thought our newly-hooked Walt had found his medication. To be a snowdrop is one thing, to walt is another; but you have to be really 'aff yer tattie' to walt it as a snowdrop!
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Well TT. I think you have done more for the anti-Snowdrop cause than any other poster on this forum. I don't doubt the professionalism of some in the trade. I had a few mates who were RAF Police - but very few. Most of those I met were insular, morose jobsworthts.
So you've seen a bit - but you're not the only one. I've been shot at by the RAF Plods - negligent discharge; had my position compromised by them whilst on an OP; and was charged by them for falling asleep behind the wheel of a LandRover after patrolling for in excess of 36 hours during the general strike. All in Northern Ireland and all in a four month period so excuse me if I treat your liitle outburst with the contempt it deserves.
Please feel free to start an anti-Rock thread and I promise not to join in and spit my dummy!
So you've seen a bit - but you're not the only one. I've been shot at by the RAF Plods - negligent discharge; had my position compromised by them whilst on an OP; and was charged by them for falling asleep behind the wheel of a LandRover after patrolling for in excess of 36 hours during the general strike. All in Northern Ireland and all in a four month period so excuse me if I treat your liitle outburst with the contempt it deserves.
Please feel free to start an anti-Rock thread and I promise not to join in and spit my dummy!
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Interesting thread. But how many respondents are either (ex/current) aircrew or even (ex/current) RAF? (Commissioned or other)
It appears that a lot of hangers on are posting here. People with limited Knowledge or understanding of RAF Life in general.
None the less the banter is good and beneficial even if a bit acidic. It certainly generates debate. As an ex RAFP that had a Brain on a Chain in the 70's I find the comments posted amusing and can relate to many of the anti RAFP feelings.
I was compelled to respond to some of the postings as some are obvious fabrications whilst others are reasonably accurate in content.
It is reasonable to assume that the RAFP have, over the years caused a great deal of animosity. But that was their role as decreed by their lords and masters. On the other hand, Squadron members have, likewise done the same, considering themselves superior to all others on the station. As decreed by their lord and masters!!!! Is there any difference ? Is this not exactly what the British Military System encourages between units/departments/sections. Please discuss !!!!!!!
Before you castigate me completely, as I fully expect you will, I will say I left the community in 87 after 15 fantastic years. Associating with all ranks and trades, enjoying the banter and abuse and down right ridicule, Passed both ways.
Keep up the good work on this thread. It is an open debate where opinions can be expressed without censorship (And god knows I expirienced enough of that in my time). But beware of fabricators as they discredit genuine debate.
Regards to all genuine members of this forum.
It appears that a lot of hangers on are posting here. People with limited Knowledge or understanding of RAF Life in general.
None the less the banter is good and beneficial even if a bit acidic. It certainly generates debate. As an ex RAFP that had a Brain on a Chain in the 70's I find the comments posted amusing and can relate to many of the anti RAFP feelings.
I was compelled to respond to some of the postings as some are obvious fabrications whilst others are reasonably accurate in content.
It is reasonable to assume that the RAFP have, over the years caused a great deal of animosity. But that was their role as decreed by their lords and masters. On the other hand, Squadron members have, likewise done the same, considering themselves superior to all others on the station. As decreed by their lord and masters!!!! Is there any difference ? Is this not exactly what the British Military System encourages between units/departments/sections. Please discuss !!!!!!!
Before you castigate me completely, as I fully expect you will, I will say I left the community in 87 after 15 fantastic years. Associating with all ranks and trades, enjoying the banter and abuse and down right ridicule, Passed both ways.
Keep up the good work on this thread. It is an open debate where opinions can be expressed without censorship (And god knows I expirienced enough of that in my time). But beware of fabricators as they discredit genuine debate.
Regards to all genuine members of this forum.
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Nice one Wilders. I wholeheartedly agree with you. Being a Rock I was usually on the receiving end a great deal of caustic comment - but hey ho life still goes on and if you take it too seriously you'll wind up in the rubber room.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Hmmm,
Many moons ago, at RAF Buchan, I ran a Lotus Europa. This was capable of driving under the barrier while it was in the down position, which, I admit, I did with great glee. When they complained I pointed out aht if I could, so could the bad guys, and they should sort it out.
They´re first solution was to open the barrier when they saw me coming. At which stage I then started to stop and ask them to drop it again before proceeding.
They´re second solution was to add a speed bump underneath. Result? Front wheels went up and down, roof went under, back wheels went up and down.
Took around 3 months before they added an extension to the bottom of the barrier.
(They did complain, but OC Ops thought it was hysterical.)
As you say, happy days........
Many moons ago, at RAF Buchan, I ran a Lotus Europa. This was capable of driving under the barrier while it was in the down position, which, I admit, I did with great glee. When they complained I pointed out aht if I could, so could the bad guys, and they should sort it out.
They´re first solution was to open the barrier when they saw me coming. At which stage I then started to stop and ask them to drop it again before proceeding.
They´re second solution was to add a speed bump underneath. Result? Front wheels went up and down, roof went under, back wheels went up and down.
Took around 3 months before they added an extension to the bottom of the barrier.
(They did complain, but OC Ops thought it was hysterical.)
As you say, happy days........
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I know most posts on this thread (where an opinion has been expressed) have been of the view that it was the snot-nosed 17/18yo LAC A/Cpl that gave the RAFP a bad name, and in general I wouldn't disagree. However, as a 1st year apprentice technician at a training unit not a million miles from Wolverhampton in the mid-70s, I had my one and only experience of the RAFP SIB that coloured my opinion of them for the rest of my time in the service. I'm sorry, but this isn't particularly funny. 
A junior NCO with whom I was acquainted due to my frequenting of a certain sports facility provided by the station, had had some rather unsavoury allegations of a sexual nature made against him by a young trainee. I knew nothing at all about this, but the SIB were called in to investigate the allegation and I was informed by my flight commander that I was required to attend an interview with them. Prior to the interview, I was given no indication by anyone as to the nature of the investigation or the interview and in my humble position I didn't think it my place to ask. At the time, I was a few months shy of my 18th birthday and had never so much as seen a scuffer (only MoD Plod at this station), so as you can imagine, I was $h1tting myself. I duly attended the interview which was conducted by an RAFP flight sergeant and corporal. I was not at any time offered any representation, and never asked for any as it never occured to me that I might benefit from it.
I was asked if I knew what I was there for. Daft question really - I imagine they'd instructed my flight commander not to tell me anything. They then launched into a diatribe about Cpl. X saying that they had rock solid evidence that he was queer and that I must know, and did I want to tell them anything. This was a complete bolt from the blue and I didn't know what to say. I told them I knew nothing about it, which was absolutely the case. They repeated that I must know something and if I didn't tell them everything it would be the worse for me. They implied, not very subtly, that they thought I was covering up for Cpl. X and that was because I was probably queer too. They said that they could get me chucked out for this and they would if I didn't come clean. It might sound silly now, but back then I believed in their capability and intent 100%. However, I really didn't know anything and although I was almost in tears (almost?) and in dire need of a change of underwear, I wasn't about to make something up. This went on for about 45 minutes and then it ended as soon as it began, with their parting shot "you'll be hearing from us". Oh, if only we knew then what we know now!
I spent the next month or so worried sick wondering when I would get the call. Eventually, I was summoned to my flight commander's office to explain why the standard of my work had gone through the floor. I told him about the interview and his response was "I was told afterwards they accepted you didn't know anything - didn't they tell you at the time?". However, he didn't seem very keen to follow it up, and I wasn't about to push it.
So I (at the time, not much more than a child really) had been put through hell for, as I saw it, no good reason by two bullies who had then left me to spend the next month wondering when I would be served with my discharge papers. It may be standard interviewing technique - I wouldn't know, but I think it was inexcusable. And Cpl. X? He was never charged but was posted sharpish to a former navy station in the frozen wastes of the north where they taught our steely-eyed pilots to ride large south-american cats.
A junior NCO with whom I was acquainted due to my frequenting of a certain sports facility provided by the station, had had some rather unsavoury allegations of a sexual nature made against him by a young trainee. I knew nothing at all about this, but the SIB were called in to investigate the allegation and I was informed by my flight commander that I was required to attend an interview with them. Prior to the interview, I was given no indication by anyone as to the nature of the investigation or the interview and in my humble position I didn't think it my place to ask. At the time, I was a few months shy of my 18th birthday and had never so much as seen a scuffer (only MoD Plod at this station), so as you can imagine, I was $h1tting myself. I duly attended the interview which was conducted by an RAFP flight sergeant and corporal. I was not at any time offered any representation, and never asked for any as it never occured to me that I might benefit from it.
I was asked if I knew what I was there for. Daft question really - I imagine they'd instructed my flight commander not to tell me anything. They then launched into a diatribe about Cpl. X saying that they had rock solid evidence that he was queer and that I must know, and did I want to tell them anything. This was a complete bolt from the blue and I didn't know what to say. I told them I knew nothing about it, which was absolutely the case. They repeated that I must know something and if I didn't tell them everything it would be the worse for me. They implied, not very subtly, that they thought I was covering up for Cpl. X and that was because I was probably queer too. They said that they could get me chucked out for this and they would if I didn't come clean. It might sound silly now, but back then I believed in their capability and intent 100%. However, I really didn't know anything and although I was almost in tears (almost?) and in dire need of a change of underwear, I wasn't about to make something up. This went on for about 45 minutes and then it ended as soon as it began, with their parting shot "you'll be hearing from us". Oh, if only we knew then what we know now!
I spent the next month or so worried sick wondering when I would get the call. Eventually, I was summoned to my flight commander's office to explain why the standard of my work had gone through the floor. I told him about the interview and his response was "I was told afterwards they accepted you didn't know anything - didn't they tell you at the time?". However, he didn't seem very keen to follow it up, and I wasn't about to push it.
So I (at the time, not much more than a child really) had been put through hell for, as I saw it, no good reason by two bullies who had then left me to spend the next month wondering when I would be served with my discharge papers. It may be standard interviewing technique - I wouldn't know, but I think it was inexcusable. And Cpl. X? He was never charged but was posted sharpish to a former navy station in the frozen wastes of the north where they taught our steely-eyed pilots to ride large south-american cats.
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That is eerily similar to an experience I had in the 80s at the hands of the SIB. The allegation in my case was drugs although at the time I was not told what they were investigating, merely that if I didn't own up and provide them with more names, then my short career was well and truly over. Given that I hadn't a clue why I had been dragged out of my quarter, I was bricking it! Even thought about confessing to taking home a few service issue biros to see if that was what they were hunting for! Yes, I was fairly naive, having kept my nose clean the whole of my short working life. I spent a couple of hours in the guardroom - most of it being left to contemplate my fate. Eventually I managed to get the so called investigating officer to re check my details because I was convinced they had pulled the wrong person. 30 minutes later they released me - warning me that this was an ongoing investigation, and if I muttered a word to anybody they would pull me back in and throw the book at me again! Turns out that the person who had been implicated shared the same surname as me. Trouble was, my christian name initial featured 2 places before his in the alphabet, so I was the one dragged in. Basic stuff really. No apology, nothing.
The worst aspect of this was that next morning, still angry about the whole shambles,I reported it to my section warrant. He was disgusted and we trotted off to the Wing Commanders office to complain and hopefully get an apology or at least an acknowledgement that they had f***ed up from the RAFP. OC Ops happened to be one of the most unpleasant officers in the branch and promptly tore me off a strip for being involved and told me I was lucky no further action was being taken!
The banter on both sides in this thread is amusing, but after my experience am left in no doubt about the professional capabilities of a good proportion of this branch. In 20 odd years, I saw many examples of unprofessional conduct by other members of their branch(trying to get a 5 year old to admit on the doostep that daddy had been drinking and driving!!), and although many no doubt did a lot of good work, its always the a***holes who provide the lasting impressions. I still do not trust them and never will.
The worst aspect of this was that next morning, still angry about the whole shambles,I reported it to my section warrant. He was disgusted and we trotted off to the Wing Commanders office to complain and hopefully get an apology or at least an acknowledgement that they had f***ed up from the RAFP. OC Ops happened to be one of the most unpleasant officers in the branch and promptly tore me off a strip for being involved and told me I was lucky no further action was being taken!
The banter on both sides in this thread is amusing, but after my experience am left in no doubt about the professional capabilities of a good proportion of this branch. In 20 odd years, I saw many examples of unprofessional conduct by other members of their branch(trying to get a 5 year old to admit on the doostep that daddy had been drinking and driving!!), and although many no doubt did a lot of good work, its always the a***holes who provide the lasting impressions. I still do not trust them and never will.
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Why nobody likes the RAF Police
There is a small minority in most trades that let the rest down, but in my 22 years in the service this bunch are let down by the majority. Now a few years ago whilst going through the lobotomy college in Lincolnshire I formed a close relationship with a delightful lady . One evening we were having an 'al fresco' moonlit tumble near the Qaboos when a bunch of plods pitched up unannounced having heard some noise. Picking up our clothes we did a runner in different directions and lost them temporarily until having waited a while cut I through the carpark and was immediately detained by an overweight policeman with an over inflated opinion. He asked me what I was doing as I was in a state of semi undress but carrying a ladies pair of boots. I told him I had been to a fancy dress party and he said that he didnt believe me as he had heard screaming on the rugby pitch (I wasnt that good but it was a quiet night). He then asked me where the lady was, i didnt know and he then arrested me for suspected rape!!!
I shat myself and managed to convince him and his mates that had pitched up that if the lady concerned had not gone through the carpark then she must be behind me or hiding in the vicinity. Well after a little search a dishevilled and semi undressed lady was found hiding under a car. Upon coaxing her out, the RAF Policemen said in his most reassuring voice "are you ok love, what were you doing hiding under the car, did this man attack you", her reply whilst drawing herself to her full height in Bra and jeans was priceless..........."Dont you ever play hide and seek with your wife Cpl?"
He let us go much to his chagrin and assured me that no report would be made.......................3 days later we were both on Wg Cdrs review, she was threatend with complete recourse and I with return to the ranks. Now I had had 13 yrs previous evasion of HM RAFP, she had just joined and a salutory lesson learnt.
They are never there when you need them and they are always there when you dont. That said, there are still a minority that do a good job, but the true minority are of the good Commissioned flavour. I havent noticed any out here that are contributing either -
. One evening we were having an 'al fresco' moonlit tumble near the Qaboos when a bunch of plods pitched up unannounced having heard some noise. Picking up our clothes we did a runner in different directions and lost them temporarily until having waited a while cut I through the carpark and was immediately detained by an overweight policeman with an over inflated opinion. He asked me what I was doing as I was in a state of semi undress but carrying a ladies pair of boots. I told him I had been to a fancy dress party and he said that he didnt believe me as he had heard screaming on the rugby pitch (I wasnt that good but it was a quiet night). He then asked me where the lady was, i didnt know and he then arrested me for suspected rape!!!I shat myself and managed to convince him and his mates that had pitched up that if the lady concerned had not gone through the carpark then she must be behind me or hiding in the vicinity. Well after a little search a dishevilled and semi undressed lady was found hiding under a car. Upon coaxing her out, the RAF Policemen said in his most reassuring voice "are you ok love, what were you doing hiding under the car, did this man attack you", her reply whilst drawing herself to her full height in Bra and jeans was priceless..........."Dont you ever play hide and seek with your wife Cpl?"
He let us go much to his chagrin and assured me that no report would be made.......................3 days later we were both on Wg Cdrs review, she was threatend with complete recourse and I with return to the ranks. Now I had had 13 yrs previous evasion of HM RAFP, she had just joined and a salutory lesson learnt.
They are never there when you need them and they are always there when you dont. That said, there are still a minority that do a good job, but the true minority are of the good Commissioned flavour. I havent noticed any out here that are contributing either -
...AHEM may I remind you not to confuse your rank with my authority.. NOW, WHERE WOZ I
or
Upon confronting a bedside locker labelled APO K**t in the middle of the South Cerney parade ground on a cold December night (c1963 so no names eh!) and observing that the "locker" was emitting sounds like "let me out," Acting Cpl Plod observed that the occupant of the locker may well be an APO K**t - complete mystery to us Cpl we replied!
Happy days (but dont get me started - I could go on for ever about the idiots!)
or
Upon confronting a bedside locker labelled APO K**t in the middle of the South Cerney parade ground on a cold December night (c1963 so no names eh!) and observing that the "locker" was emitting sounds like "let me out," Acting Cpl Plod observed that the occupant of the locker may well be an APO K**t - complete mystery to us Cpl we replied!
Happy days (but dont get me started - I could go on for ever about the idiots!)
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Originally Posted by Raven30
That is eerily similar to an experience I had in the 80s at the hands of the SIB. The allegation in my case was drugs although at the time I was not told what they were investigating, merely that if I didn't own up and provide them with more names, then my short career was well and truly over. Given that I hadn't a clue why I had been dragged out of my quarter, I was bricking it! Even thought about confessing to taking home a few service issue biros to see if that was what they were hunting for! Yes, I was fairly naive, having kept my nose clean the whole of my short working life. I spent a couple of hours in the guardroom - most of it being left to contemplate my fate. Eventually I managed to get the so called investigating officer to re check my details because I was convinced they had pulled the wrong person. 30 minutes later they released me - warning me that this was an ongoing investigation, and if I muttered a word to anybody they would pull me back in and throw the book at me again! Turns out that the person who had been implicated shared the same surname as me. Trouble was, my christian name initial featured 2 places before his in the alphabet, so I was the one dragged in. Basic stuff really. No apology, nothing.
The worst aspect of this was that next morning, still angry about the whole shambles,I reported it to my section warrant. He was disgusted and we trotted off to the Wing Commanders office to complain and hopefully get an apology or at least an acknowledgement that they had f***ed up from the RAFP. OC Ops happened to be one of the most unpleasant officers in the branch and promptly tore me off a strip for being involved and told me I was lucky no further action was being taken!
The banter on both sides in this thread is amusing, but after my experience am left in no doubt about the professional capabilities of a good proportion of this branch. In 20 odd years, I saw many examples of unprofessional conduct by other members of their branch(trying to get a 5 year old to admit on the doostep that daddy had been drinking and driving!!), and although many no doubt did a lot of good work, its always the a***holes who provide the lasting impressions. I still do not trust them and never will.
The worst aspect of this was that next morning, still angry about the whole shambles,I reported it to my section warrant. He was disgusted and we trotted off to the Wing Commanders office to complain and hopefully get an apology or at least an acknowledgement that they had f***ed up from the RAFP. OC Ops happened to be one of the most unpleasant officers in the branch and promptly tore me off a strip for being involved and told me I was lucky no further action was being taken!
The banter on both sides in this thread is amusing, but after my experience am left in no doubt about the professional capabilities of a good proportion of this branch. In 20 odd years, I saw many examples of unprofessional conduct by other members of their branch(trying to get a 5 year old to admit on the doostep that daddy had been drinking and driving!!), and although many no doubt did a lot of good work, its always the a***holes who provide the lasting impressions. I still do not trust them and never will.
Fact - when I worked for another unit, we were left in possession of hundreds of interview tapes, records of seizures (many illegal), and evidential records which seemed to carry lots of corrections and modifications. These tapes were to do with interviews for homosexuality before it became not-illegal-in-the-forces. These tapes contained coercion, bullying, harassment, threats, and were in no way legal interviews. When it was discovered that we had these tapes, we had to have a mass destruction, which involved chucking the whole lot in a skip, covering them in lighter fuel, and torching them. Because the uniformed staff refused point blank to do this, they brought in civilians to do it - and the SIB big stick was waved once more. We had the whole HMS Dryad episode, including the way that they were playing people against each other with "evidence" of relationships - such as being seen in the same car.
Perhaps, now they will become tri-Service police, the standards will improve, but I fear they will drop to the lowest common denominator. Says a lot when the unofficial slogan is "Never Succumb to Malice - but never forget a face."
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Originally Posted by PompeySailor
Perhaps, now they will become tri-Service police, the standards will improve, but I fear they will drop to the lowest common denominator. Says a lot when the unofficial slogan is "Never Succumb to Malice - but never forget a face."
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Well, dare I say it? I actually got on alright with the plods, but then I was an affable type of airman who got on with everyone really. I did, however, have two experiences with them, one uniformed and one with what I presumed to be SIB. The latter was at Cottesmore in the days of white Victors when, for no reason at all, I was removed from my post on the airfield and transported to the Guardroom and ushered into an office occupied by two unsmiling types wearing suits.I was then asked how long I had been an associate of a mate who happened to be Irish, and reminded I had been seen drinking with him! As he was in my section and on the same crew and in the same accommodation block, I was somewhat mystified by the stupidity of the observation. The airman in question was kicked out of the RAF for whatever reason, but later appeared back on Station working for the works and bricks people!
On another occasion, this time in the RNZAF on a Canberra unit at Tengah, I was driving my four-year-old Ford Zodiac [Kiwis always had flash cars at Tengah!] down from the airfield when I noticed a Landrover behind me with a blue light flashing and apparently trying to overtake, so I pulled over.I was promptly directed to follow them to the Guardroom. Again, I was escorted into the office of the OC Cops, who demanded to know where the camera was [they had searched my car it would seem!].Being somewhat wiser in those days, and as a member of a 'foreign' air force, I politely asked what he was on about and why was I there and if I was to be there much longer, could I phone my CO? Somewhat calmer, I was advised I had been seen taking photos on the flight line [of Javelins?]. I pointed out that his argument was flawed because, [a]I hadn't actually been on the flight line and that [b], I didn't own a camera. Some nervous coughs from the two arresting plods, and a quick discussion and it turned out the 'photographer' was someone on 64 Sqn, and authorised!
On a more humorous note; we were crossing the 45 Sqn pan one very dark night after some very generous hospitality from 45 to 14, and were stopped by a very large policeman and an equally large dog,[why do dogs always look bigger at night?]. My mate, an equally large Maori guy, promptly leaned forward toward the dog and said, "G'day Corporal".
They weren't all bad and , what is it they say today, "over-empowered"?
On another occasion, this time in the RNZAF on a Canberra unit at Tengah, I was driving my four-year-old Ford Zodiac [Kiwis always had flash cars at Tengah!] down from the airfield when I noticed a Landrover behind me with a blue light flashing and apparently trying to overtake, so I pulled over.I was promptly directed to follow them to the Guardroom. Again, I was escorted into the office of the OC Cops, who demanded to know where the camera was [they had searched my car it would seem!].Being somewhat wiser in those days, and as a member of a 'foreign' air force, I politely asked what he was on about and why was I there and if I was to be there much longer, could I phone my CO? Somewhat calmer, I was advised I had been seen taking photos on the flight line [of Javelins?]. I pointed out that his argument was flawed because, [a]I hadn't actually been on the flight line and that [b], I didn't own a camera. Some nervous coughs from the two arresting plods, and a quick discussion and it turned out the 'photographer' was someone on 64 Sqn, and authorised!
On a more humorous note; we were crossing the 45 Sqn pan one very dark night after some very generous hospitality from 45 to 14, and were stopped by a very large policeman and an equally large dog,[why do dogs always look bigger at night?]. My mate, an equally large Maori guy, promptly leaned forward toward the dog and said, "G'day Corporal".
They weren't all bad and , what is it they say today, "over-empowered"?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I empathise completely with your sentiments. During my time I have witnessed and unfortunately participated in some of the antics described. But, in some defence of their position, the procedures taught to the younger elements of the RAFP, and I am going back to the 70’s and 80’s, were standard operating procedures taught at the Police School. So as you will appreciate, any young LAC/SAC ACPL aged 17 to 20 would not have the common sense and general life and job experience to police a military establishment.
On the one hand the MOD encourages their employees to be aggressive, teaches them to inflict damage on others and yet expects them to be good little boys and girls after a Friday night in the Malcolm Club/Sgts Mess/Officers Mess after several “Dry” months in theatre. The novices in the trade (And novice could mean RAFP with several years service stood on the gate at Brampton or other similar places) don’t stand a chance in dealing with these situations. That requires common sense, logic, empathy, a big slice of turning a blind eye (so you are not scoring brownie points off others) and an understanding of what fellow RAF have been tasked to do. This is not just a RAF problem. Ask any civil police or the RMP. Imagine being at Aldershot or Colchester when the Para’s return. It is absolute mayhem yet few squaddies end up in front of the bench. The local cops know the problems and react accordingly. The only ones that face the wrath of S69 AFA or AA were those that cannot be persuaded to go home quietly and rest or get lively even in the back of a blue light taxi (By the way I was a fully paid up member of the taxi drivers association at Wilders).
What I am trying to say is that the RAFP of the 70’s and 80’s did have problems. They were at times autocratic and inflexible. However, you cannot blame the young lads on the gate. They were doing what they were told. The people you have to challenge are the shift Sgts, FS and the Oi/c Police. After all they were the Managers of the Section. Unfortunately the Managers were themselves of a bygone age. At that time it was not unknown to take 15 to 20 years to make Sgt. When I got my third after 8 years I was ridiculed by many of the old guard.
Midsomerjambo raises a valid point about investigation techniques. In my days there was paranoia about sexuality. And to my shame I have been involved in such investigations and subsequent prosecutions. All I will say is that the regulation at the time required this investigation although the techniques used were dubious. The SIB were trained in exactly the same techniques as the Civilian CID. Things changed dramatically in 1985 with the introduction of PACE. (Thumb screws withdrawn), and the introduction of a more humane treatment of accused.
Pompeysailor identifies other issues, not just with the RAFP but I assume with the Navy Regs. Nothing you have posted surprises me. I hope that the introduction of the tri service police rectifies these issues but I am not optimistic.
Well I have certainly opened myself up for assassination in this post. So fill your boots.
I look forward to your opinions
Regards to all
On the one hand the MOD encourages their employees to be aggressive, teaches them to inflict damage on others and yet expects them to be good little boys and girls after a Friday night in the Malcolm Club/Sgts Mess/Officers Mess after several “Dry” months in theatre. The novices in the trade (And novice could mean RAFP with several years service stood on the gate at Brampton or other similar places) don’t stand a chance in dealing with these situations. That requires common sense, logic, empathy, a big slice of turning a blind eye (so you are not scoring brownie points off others) and an understanding of what fellow RAF have been tasked to do. This is not just a RAF problem. Ask any civil police or the RMP. Imagine being at Aldershot or Colchester when the Para’s return. It is absolute mayhem yet few squaddies end up in front of the bench. The local cops know the problems and react accordingly. The only ones that face the wrath of S69 AFA or AA were those that cannot be persuaded to go home quietly and rest or get lively even in the back of a blue light taxi (By the way I was a fully paid up member of the taxi drivers association at Wilders).
What I am trying to say is that the RAFP of the 70’s and 80’s did have problems. They were at times autocratic and inflexible. However, you cannot blame the young lads on the gate. They were doing what they were told. The people you have to challenge are the shift Sgts, FS and the Oi/c Police. After all they were the Managers of the Section. Unfortunately the Managers were themselves of a bygone age. At that time it was not unknown to take 15 to 20 years to make Sgt. When I got my third after 8 years I was ridiculed by many of the old guard.
Midsomerjambo raises a valid point about investigation techniques. In my days there was paranoia about sexuality. And to my shame I have been involved in such investigations and subsequent prosecutions. All I will say is that the regulation at the time required this investigation although the techniques used were dubious. The SIB were trained in exactly the same techniques as the Civilian CID. Things changed dramatically in 1985 with the introduction of PACE. (Thumb screws withdrawn), and the introduction of a more humane treatment of accused.
Pompeysailor identifies other issues, not just with the RAFP but I assume with the Navy Regs. Nothing you have posted surprises me. I hope that the introduction of the tri service police rectifies these issues but I am not optimistic.
Well I have certainly opened myself up for assassination in this post. So fill your boots.
I look forward to your opinions
Regards to all