And if JPA Fails??
Hellbound
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Don't think it is worth discussing - who knows what branch the decision makers for JPA are? Pointless argument.
Just amazing that we have taken a working product (not defending EDS, but the core of JPA works well for other organisations) and faffed with it until it doesn't. Any money there is something that we were meant to do (like buy new hardware or something) that we haven't done to try and make it work on the cheap...
Just amazing that we have taken a working product (not defending EDS, but the core of JPA works well for other organisations) and faffed with it until it doesn't. Any money there is something that we were meant to do (like buy new hardware or something) that we haven't done to try and make it work on the cheap...
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Whether the hierarchy is aircrew or not is irrelevant, fact is they were all convincingly briefed that it was going to work. We can all scoff and say, well they should have known it wouldn't (and secretly they may have thought so, too), but cynicism wasn't a good enough reason to cause SofS or MinAF to stand up in the House to announce the delayed role out of JPA. The 'go' decision was as politically motivated as anything else - can you think of a government minister who would choose to stand up in the House and announce yet another government IT project delay? Based on a hunch that it 'probably' wouldn't work? Having been briefed by JPA that it would work?
Thing is, the bits I have used do actually work...when you can get access it. Speed/availability is the issue and thats what is preventing everything happening.
Pay run should have started at 1700 last night, but ran today instead (maybe) which caused everyone to be logged out. We 'expect' access again tomorrow (if pay runs...). Self-service not working is pants. But imagine having to spend you whole day staring at the JPA egg timer. Pity me...please...
Thing is, the bits I have used do actually work...when you can get access it. Speed/availability is the issue and thats what is preventing everything happening.
Pay run should have started at 1700 last night, but ran today instead (maybe) which caused everyone to be logged out. We 'expect' access again tomorrow (if pay runs...). Self-service not working is pants. But imagine having to spend you whole day staring at the JPA egg timer. Pity me...please...
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And if JPA Fails??
Reliability ? Availability ? Accessability ? and crucially, credibility = 0
Thankfully, the months to do are getting fewer !
S_H
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Here in jolly USA, us exchange folks were looking on with real wonderment...wondering what on earth all the fuss was about with this JPA stuff. The old embassy in Washington will be looking after all of that sort of stuff. Any q's or problems with our claims we can ring them up and ask away, just like the old days. Well, JPA has managed to cross the Atlantic and now we are deluged with letters dated the something of April ref JPA wef 1 Apr and oh no, its all so confusing...........Innsworth says this, Washingto says this.........Oh my goodness me pse get the story straight. For me if they are going to change the way we are administered then a period of examples and exposure should preceed any major changes. It really is a bit of a mess. i hope all those senior types who were so keen on coming forward to sell the benefits are brave enough to step up and sort the problems out. And, if neccessary say that the change was in fact not for the better, but for the cheaper.....
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JPA outside the UK
Originally Posted by foormort
Here in jolly USA, us exchange folks were looking on with real wonderment...wondering what on earth all the fuss was about with this JPA stuff. The old embassy in Washington will be looking after all of that sort of stuff. Any q's or problems with our claims we can ring them up and ask away, just like the old days......
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Nice letter Rather Be Gardening, shame most of the rest of the Air Force haven't seen it - was it Blunties in Confidence?
Wouldn't that be about the time that 40,000 sets of personnel records got put on the system and people set about fixing the Horlicks the data entry people had made of it?
(Bold Underline mine) All becomes clear. As I suspected we bought hardware that wasn't up to the job. I can see the IPT now:"So EDS/HP/ORACLE: What do you reckon is the minimum spec you need to deliver this capability?" "Blah Blah Blah ZX Spectrum Blah Blah Commodore 64 Blah" "Excellent, that's what you can have then."
What happened to "any system bought must have a minimum 50% excess capacity in memory and proceessing power to cope with upgrades and additional capabilities"? Or is that only for Ops systems
The System’s performance deteriorated significantly immediately prior to the Easter weekend.
However, whilst memory and software patches have been applied, the root cause of the problem has yet to be identified.
What happened to "any system bought must have a minimum 50% excess capacity in memory and proceessing power to cope with upgrades and additional capabilities"? Or is that only for Ops systems
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My GOD!!
As an ex-miltary type that now works in telecoms, I am shocked. The systems that are required are not unlike a telephone network billing system. The individual account is debited by the work done by the system. The individual is able to change his rate plan, make payments, etc online himself. Fundamentally, it seems JPA works the other way, so if an airman claims a missed meal, he gets paid for it. Fundamentally the same idea though.
What really gets me is the miniscule scale of the system. 40,000 subscribers in a phone network would be laughed out of the door. Typically it would be >5 million. To say it's about insufficient memory and/or processing power is probably gonads. Inefficient database design more likely. Or networking problems between the core server sites and satellites. At least I hope the plural is required.
You could say that Oracle is capable of running British Gas's billing system. I.e. 20 million accounts. 40,000 is just jokeworthy if they cant' make that work.
Worse still, it's your pay and allowances. Questions in the house. Today.
As an ex-miltary type that now works in telecoms, I am shocked. The systems that are required are not unlike a telephone network billing system. The individual account is debited by the work done by the system. The individual is able to change his rate plan, make payments, etc online himself. Fundamentally, it seems JPA works the other way, so if an airman claims a missed meal, he gets paid for it. Fundamentally the same idea though.
What really gets me is the miniscule scale of the system. 40,000 subscribers in a phone network would be laughed out of the door. Typically it would be >5 million. To say it's about insufficient memory and/or processing power is probably gonads. Inefficient database design more likely. Or networking problems between the core server sites and satellites. At least I hope the plural is required.
You could say that Oracle is capable of running British Gas's billing system. I.e. 20 million accounts. 40,000 is just jokeworthy if they cant' make that work.
Worse still, it's your pay and allowances. Questions in the house. Today.
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More from the USA
OK this is progress, to make an expense claim I print out the JPA Fxyz, I then complete it by hand, I then fax it to RAF Innsworth, the details are then entered by another hand into a spread sheet, at the end of every working day the spreadsheet is sent to Glasgow, JPAC then reenter all the details into another form, then the claim is submitted for payment. Now that is smart. What if there is a problem with the claim, I can only imagine how long the question will take to reach the individual, or do they simply return the claim via the reverse process above!!??. With the vast numbers of personnel overseas I kinda thought it might be a little more efficient than this.....
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FOORMORT asks "What if there is a problem with the claim..."
This is a quote from the JPA thread on the RAF unofficial web site E-Goat:
"Since day 1 of JPA I have been trying to get an advance of allowances to go over seas on a jolly.
Old system: send fax mod form 300 to allowances signed by the boss 4 days later i have the dosh in the bank everyone happy.
JPA: sent fax to JPAC.... WAIT...... JPAC cant't enter data....send form to allowances hoping for a miscellaneous payment....WAIT.....allowances staff are all sacked and can't do miscellaneous payment as they won't be there to send me a bill to pay after i come back from the jolly....log in to JPA...again again and again over 3 days....apply for advance....WAIT......WAIT .....looks like nothing in happening....contact PSF..... yes we have it to review it but cant log on....WAIT... PSF contact me you are asking for too much dosh, hold on this is overseas I reply, your application does not say that, it never asked I told them.....PSF return application via JPA email....try to log on again,again and again...send back email to say i am going over seas......WAIT....PSF call great news we have sent it to JPAC.....WAIT....phone call from allowances (Very angry woman)...YOU ARE ASKING FOR TO MUCH DOSH....reply I am going overseas.... it does not say that here.... 10 minutes later explaining it all over again....fine I'll send to to JPAC....WAIT....1 week later no dosh....... and boss if its not in my bank tommorow i am not going.........simple.........i Cant afford to pay out money to support the RAF....and it's Jurassic Park Allowances."
This is a quote from the JPA thread on the RAF unofficial web site E-Goat:
"Since day 1 of JPA I have been trying to get an advance of allowances to go over seas on a jolly.
Old system: send fax mod form 300 to allowances signed by the boss 4 days later i have the dosh in the bank everyone happy.
JPA: sent fax to JPAC.... WAIT...... JPAC cant't enter data....send form to allowances hoping for a miscellaneous payment....WAIT.....allowances staff are all sacked and can't do miscellaneous payment as they won't be there to send me a bill to pay after i come back from the jolly....log in to JPA...again again and again over 3 days....apply for advance....WAIT......WAIT .....looks like nothing in happening....contact PSF..... yes we have it to review it but cant log on....WAIT... PSF contact me you are asking for too much dosh, hold on this is overseas I reply, your application does not say that, it never asked I told them.....PSF return application via JPA email....try to log on again,again and again...send back email to say i am going over seas......WAIT....PSF call great news we have sent it to JPAC.....WAIT....phone call from allowances (Very angry woman)...YOU ARE ASKING FOR TO MUCH DOSH....reply I am going overseas.... it does not say that here.... 10 minutes later explaining it all over again....fine I'll send to to JPAC....WAIT....1 week later no dosh....... and boss if its not in my bank tommorow i am not going.........simple.........i Cant afford to pay out money to support the RAF....and it's Jurassic Park Allowances."
