Future Carrier (Including Costs)
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Them Ships Again
Me only crab, but IMHO they should be named HMS Tony Bliar and HMS Gordon Brown. Never get scrapped then and will always to be lucky and able to avoid trouble!! 
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If the Queen pops her clogs before they're ready can we have 'King Charles III' and "HMS Camilla" ??
or hows about..
"HMS Princess Diana" ?? We could get the Express to start a campaign for this now!
or hows about..
"HMS Princess Diana" ?? We could get the Express to start a campaign for this now!
The only good argument for PoW is the old shanty High Barbary, which in one version involves the exploits of the ships Prince of Wales and Prince of Luther ...
For quarter, for quarter, the pirates they did cry
Blow high, blow low, and so sailed we
The answer that we gave them was we sunk them in the sea
Down along the coast of high Barbary
Which IMHO was a valid way of dealing with non-state adversaries then, and still is.
There's an excellent version of the song on the CD Rogue's Gallery, which I highly recommend and suggest that you (a) leave around so that your six-year-old can learn the lyrics and (b) play at full volume when your mother-in-law is visiting.
http://www.amazon.com/Rogues-Gallery.../dp/B000GGSMD0
That said, I must say that trad carrier names would have sounded better. But at least it's a huge advance on naming carriers after obscure, corrupt, sister-marrying, segregation-voting Dixiecrats who just happened to vote the Navy line every day of their worthless careers.
For quarter, for quarter, the pirates they did cry
Blow high, blow low, and so sailed we
The answer that we gave them was we sunk them in the sea
Down along the coast of high Barbary
Which IMHO was a valid way of dealing with non-state adversaries then, and still is.
There's an excellent version of the song on the CD Rogue's Gallery, which I highly recommend and suggest that you (a) leave around so that your six-year-old can learn the lyrics and (b) play at full volume when your mother-in-law is visiting.
http://www.amazon.com/Rogues-Gallery.../dp/B000GGSMD0
That said, I must say that trad carrier names would have sounded better. But at least it's a huge advance on naming carriers after obscure, corrupt, sister-marrying, segregation-voting Dixiecrats who just happened to vote the Navy line every day of their worthless careers.
Red On, Green On
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They should be HMS Camilla Parker-Bowles and HMS Dorothy Jordan
Dorothy was the mistress of the Duke of Clarence, who became William IV. She had ten children by the Duke, and died in penury. Their seventh child, Lady Augusta is my great-great etc granny!
Dorothy was the mistress of the Duke of Clarence, who became William IV. She had ten children by the Duke, and died in penury. Their seventh child, Lady Augusta is my great-great etc granny!
Can't resist a Wodehouse quote:
"But, dash it, why does everybody come trying to touch* ME?"
"Because you've got the stuff, my boy. It is the penalty you pay for having an ancestress who couldn't say No to Charles the Second."
* Note - in the context of hitting someone for a loan, particularly one that is unlikely to be repaid.
"But, dash it, why does everybody come trying to touch* ME?"
"Because you've got the stuff, my boy. It is the penalty you pay for having an ancestress who couldn't say No to Charles the Second."
* Note - in the context of hitting someone for a loan, particularly one that is unlikely to be repaid.
According to BBC news 24 yesterday these new carriers are to weigh 65 tons each!!!!!!!
Could they be for home defence of the flooded areas in the South.
Does this explain the increase in activity at Airfix and the worldwide glue shortage?
Could they be for home defence of the flooded areas in the South.
Does this explain the increase in activity at Airfix and the worldwide glue shortage?
Suspicion breeds confidence
I see the CSR statement made no mention of Tranche 3 Typhoon. I presume this will will now be quietly killed through some bilateral agreement with the other partners - and a good thing too.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I'm really excited that the CVF have finally been confirmed. I've been following them for some time (though I'm not in the armed forces, more an obsessive geek.)
I hope everyone can curb their cynical side. Sure there are always set backs. However the British press attacks prestige projects with such 'demonic delight' and this could be dangerous for the CVF. Remember TSR2, cancelled in favour of F111, seriously weakining our aerospace industry despite F111's rapid price inflation. Remember also the cancellation of the Black Arrow rocket project because of its expense, just a few years before launching commercial satelites became highly lucrative. According to Wiki "the UK is the only nation to have successfully developed and then abandoned a satellite launch capability."
I know these are vastly different subjects, but what I'm trying to say is that the press will try to pick off the flesh until the bones of CVF collapse in a heap.
Perhaps I am being cynical of the British media?
I hope everyone can curb their cynical side. Sure there are always set backs. However the British press attacks prestige projects with such 'demonic delight' and this could be dangerous for the CVF. Remember TSR2, cancelled in favour of F111, seriously weakining our aerospace industry despite F111's rapid price inflation. Remember also the cancellation of the Black Arrow rocket project because of its expense, just a few years before launching commercial satelites became highly lucrative. According to Wiki "the UK is the only nation to have successfully developed and then abandoned a satellite launch capability."
I know these are vastly different subjects, but what I'm trying to say is that the press will try to pick off the flesh until the bones of CVF collapse in a heap.
Perhaps I am being cynical of the British media?
I am in favour of Royal Navy ships following the tradition of using mythological names e.g Agamemnon, Eurydice e.t.c
Endless fun listening to the Americans trying to say them!!!!!!!!!!!
Endless fun listening to the Americans trying to say them!!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: May 2006
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Navaleye. Was that an outbreak of cross Service Schadenfreude there? It's so unbecoming of the Senior Service.
ericferret. Like Pennylope and Cherrybee?
ericferret. Like Pennylope and Cherrybee?
Cherry B
That was always a sailors drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least we are not inflicted with the
HMS Anthony C L Blair
HMS James G Brown
HMS James H Wilson
Talk about the ship that died of shame.
However I might not take offence to the HMS Margaret Thatcher
What her crew might think about setting sail in the Iron Lady though I'm not sure.
I did think about HMS Tumbledown, but not sure thats suitable for an aircraft carrier.
That was always a sailors drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At least we are not inflicted with the
HMS Anthony C L Blair
HMS James G Brown
HMS James H Wilson
Talk about the ship that died of shame.
However I might not take offence to the HMS Margaret Thatcher
What her crew might think about setting sail in the Iron Lady though I'm not sure.
I did think about HMS Tumbledown, but not sure thats suitable for an aircraft carrier.
"I see the CSR statement made no mention of Tranche 3 Typhoon. I presume this will will now be quietly killed through some bilateral agreement with the other partners - and a good thing too."
Navaleye.
You really are an utterly, utterly, clueless tos.ser sometimes, mate.
Navaleye.
You really are an utterly, utterly, clueless tos.ser sometimes, mate.
NE - losing Tranche 3 Typhoon would be a 'bad thing' since we'd run out of airframes before the projected OSD of the type.
I suspect that part of the reason CSR won't mention T3 Typhoon is because that was covered under the last (or the one prior to that) CSR, with negotiations and decisions on that Tranche starting in the next 6-18 months. It may be that the partner nations don't take up the full Tranche 3 allocation originally planned, but all the info coming into the public domain to date suggests that the RAF will be receiving Tranche 3 aircraft.
One idea is that in addition to new build airframes, some of the Tranche 2s will be brought up to Tranche 3 standard to plug the gap left by not ordering all 88, while there's another suggestion that the contract may be changed to allow some of the Tranche 1s to be sold and replaced with Tranche 3s, reducing the overall force level a bit, but giving better capability throughout.
CAS appears rather bullish about it all - while he may not get all 80 odd Tranche 3s, his view seems to be that his service is going to get someTranche 3 Typhoons to give him the capability he wants. He also seems to be implying in some interviews that a smaller Tranche 3 buy would see the money saved being spent on things such as electronically scanned active radar.
I suspect that part of the reason CSR won't mention T3 Typhoon is because that was covered under the last (or the one prior to that) CSR, with negotiations and decisions on that Tranche starting in the next 6-18 months. It may be that the partner nations don't take up the full Tranche 3 allocation originally planned, but all the info coming into the public domain to date suggests that the RAF will be receiving Tranche 3 aircraft.
One idea is that in addition to new build airframes, some of the Tranche 2s will be brought up to Tranche 3 standard to plug the gap left by not ordering all 88, while there's another suggestion that the contract may be changed to allow some of the Tranche 1s to be sold and replaced with Tranche 3s, reducing the overall force level a bit, but giving better capability throughout.
CAS appears rather bullish about it all - while he may not get all 80 odd Tranche 3s, his view seems to be that his service is going to get someTranche 3 Typhoons to give him the capability he wants. He also seems to be implying in some interviews that a smaller Tranche 3 buy would see the money saved being spent on things such as electronically scanned active radar.
Last edited by Archimedes; 26th Jul 2007 at 21:22.
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If anyone's daft enough to call one 'HMS Margaret Thatcher' I'll have a go at sinking the bl***y thing myself with my little boat ( which while a small sailing boat is probably better armed ).
Remember the plan to sell Invincible to the Australians before the Falklands, then a brief period of bathing in glory earned by the services, followed by completely crapping on them...
Thatcher was shown the advanced supersonic VSTOL P1216 mock-up in the late 80's, which made the JSF look like a Sopwith Camel - she barely looked at it & just said " no ".
Whether we could have made it a go-er re control laws etc is a different matter, but to my mind it's far more relevant than TSR 2 ever was.
Now back to the important discussion, which version of JSF ?
I'd say VSTOL 'B' every time, as it gives so much more flexibility for forward bases ashore, landing on other ships etc -
some people seem seduced by payload & range figures while forgetting the above.
Remember the plan to sell Invincible to the Australians before the Falklands, then a brief period of bathing in glory earned by the services, followed by completely crapping on them...
Thatcher was shown the advanced supersonic VSTOL P1216 mock-up in the late 80's, which made the JSF look like a Sopwith Camel - she barely looked at it & just said " no ".
Whether we could have made it a go-er re control laws etc is a different matter, but to my mind it's far more relevant than TSR 2 ever was.
Now back to the important discussion, which version of JSF ?
I'd say VSTOL 'B' every time, as it gives so much more flexibility for forward bases ashore, landing on other ships etc -
some people seem seduced by payload & range figures while forgetting the above.
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Whats in a name...
Prince of Wales - sunk by Jap aircraft 10 Dec 41
Queen Elizabeth - sunk in shallow water by Italian frogmen 19 Dec 41
trad carrier namesakes didn't do much better....
Ark Royal - sunk by U-boat 13 Nov 41
Hermes - sunk by Jap aircraft 9 Apr 42
Eagle - sunk by U-boat 11 Aug 42
If you want tradition why not bring back Hermes and Eagle
However I think is more of a case of HMS Improbable and HMS Unfundable
Prince of Wales - sunk by Jap aircraft 10 Dec 41
Queen Elizabeth - sunk in shallow water by Italian frogmen 19 Dec 41
trad carrier namesakes didn't do much better....
Ark Royal - sunk by U-boat 13 Nov 41
Hermes - sunk by Jap aircraft 9 Apr 42
Eagle - sunk by U-boat 11 Aug 42
If you want tradition why not bring back Hermes and Eagle
However I think is more of a case of HMS Improbable and HMS Unfundable