Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Suspicion breeds confidence
Jacko,
As someone who spent 20 years of his life dealing with "floaty things" his comments are I agree controversial, but I have conclusions are not a million miles away from the truth.
As someone who spent 20 years of his life dealing with "floaty things" his comments are I agree controversial, but I have conclusions are not a million miles away from the truth.
Staff branches, JN.
J2 = Intelligence
J6 = Comms, info systems and anything which involves sucking of teeth before muttering 'Ooooh, not sure the bandwith will be able to take it'.
There are those who contend that when it comes to air operations, the senior service perhaps needs to enhance its capabilities in those two areas, so that the Royal Navy approach to planning doesn't end up as
J2 = Intelligence
J6 = Comms, info systems and anything which involves sucking of teeth before muttering 'Ooooh, not sure the bandwith will be able to take it'.
There are those who contend that when it comes to air operations, the senior service perhaps needs to enhance its capabilities in those two areas, so that the Royal Navy approach to planning doesn't end up as
Only Captain grown-up enough to know plan. Everyone else sits at brightly coloured screen pretending to know what plan is. Captain goes to bed and First Officer, not knowing plan is "Not to sail on to rocks", sails on to rocks. New plan devised called 'How to sell ship with no bottom to Third World navy'.
(with acknowledgements)
(with acknowledgements)
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These will be named HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales.
)
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I was always led to believe that these 2 particular names were chosen by the RN to make it more difficult for the govt to cancel the order. If they did then the next time the PM popped round to the palace for tea he would be forced to explain why he's scrapping a ship named after her or her fella.
probably just heresay though............
probably just heresay though............
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Are the ships' names intended to be resurrections of the old battleship names or are they named for HM The Queen and Prince Charles?
Whilst it is perfectly fitting to name a ship after HM, it does seem fawningly Edwardian to use "Prince of Wales". After all what has he actually achieved to date - other than champion his own pet issues and cause some constitutional crises. If they'd really wanted to name the ships for Royalty then "King George VI" would have been more appropriate. He was a Naval Officer who actually saw action, was the monarch through WW2 and hasn't had a ship named for him. The name would also follow in the battleship tradition.
Personally I reckon Late and Overbudget will be more accurate. Or Reduced and Cancelled?
Whilst it is perfectly fitting to name a ship after HM, it does seem fawningly Edwardian to use "Prince of Wales". After all what has he actually achieved to date - other than champion his own pet issues and cause some constitutional crises. If they'd really wanted to name the ships for Royalty then "King George VI" would have been more appropriate. He was a Naval Officer who actually saw action, was the monarch through WW2 and hasn't had a ship named for him. The name would also follow in the battleship tradition.
Personally I reckon Late and Overbudget will be more accurate. Or Reduced and Cancelled?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BP, are you sure that one CVF is to be named after HM The Queen?
The Queen Elizabeth Class was a dreadnought named after Elizabeth I.
Then quite rightly we had the KGV and POW. At the time of their building King George was dead and we did not have a POW.
So, are the CVF named after living Royals or historical?
As we already had a Queen Elizabeth BB maybe the CVF will not actually be Queen Elizabeth (II) but Queen Elizabeth (HM) - [Her Mum]?
The Queen Elizabeth Class was a dreadnought named after Elizabeth I.
Then quite rightly we had the KGV and POW. At the time of their building King George was dead and we did not have a POW.
So, are the CVF named after living Royals or historical?
As we already had a Queen Elizabeth BB maybe the CVF will not actually be Queen Elizabeth (II) but Queen Elizabeth (HM) - [Her Mum]?
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PN,
I suppose it ought to be HMS QE2, but the cruise liner banter would be too much.
These names must be a least partly chosen for modern royals - too much of a co-incidence to claim that they are purely for old BBs. Queen Elizabeth or QE2 - fine. but Prince of Wales is
In fact Queen Elizabeth and KG VI would be a great names as current HM's parents.
I suppose it ought to be HMS QE2, but the cruise liner banter would be too much.
These names must be a least partly chosen for modern royals - too much of a co-incidence to claim that they are purely for old BBs. Queen Elizabeth or QE2 - fine. but Prince of Wales is
In fact Queen Elizabeth and KG VI would be a great names as current HM's parents.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BP. Quite agree. POW really is the odd one out.
And jibes about cruise liners? A II or no will make no difference, why, it has already started.
I wonder whether they will fit them with bow thrusters? Then they will be able to self-dock without escorts and get where cruise ships go.
Well at least where the QE2 went as her draft was a good 10 feet more than your modern gin palace.
And jibes about cruise liners? A II or no will make no difference, why, it has already started.
I wonder whether they will fit them with bow thrusters? Then they will be able to self-dock without escorts and get where cruise ships go.
Well at least where the QE2 went as her draft was a good 10 feet more than your modern gin palace.
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Perhaps the King George VI and Queen Elizabeth combination will upset our German friends as they often accuse us of being stuck in WW2 nostalgia.
So we perhaps ought to go with names of great Europeans for these ships:
How about Bismarck and Tirpitz ?
So we perhaps ought to go with names of great Europeans for these ships:
How about Bismarck and Tirpitz ?
If we were going to use proper carrier names Eagle and Hermes would have been my choices. Moving away from traditional carrier names, we could do with another Warspite as well.
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I believe the ship is being named after the current monarch, following an ancient, if erratic tradition. The first ship-of-the-line built in a new reign is called after the monarch. If you scan through this list:
Wiki RN Battleships
you can see the Great Harry (1512), Elizabeth (1559), Philip and Mary (renamed quickly!) and so on. It has been a bit erratic in application, though. The Prince George (1702) was named after the future George II and so no ship was named after his accession, there were also Royal Georges and a Royal William named after George III, IV and William IV, but all before they were crowned. I have no idea how the RN ended up with an HMS Victoria sloop in 1839, but they did name 2 more battleships after her so that was alright...
In the last 100 or so years, King Edward VII (1903) and King George V (1911) were straight forward, but in 1937 George VI named 'his' ship in memory of his father. The first capital ship, an aircraft carrier, of the present Queen's reign was going to be CVA-01 in the late 60s. It just looks like it will take 50 years longer than expected to build the first ship-of-the-line!
There was also a tradition of naming another ship after the Consort, hence the Queen Henrietta, Prince Albert, Queen Mary etc. I have seen a potential name for the CVA-02 quoted as Duke of Edinburgh, but that seems to have been sidelined for the new carriers...
As for PoW, she's the 8th of the line and it would be nice to see it a 'lucky name' again. It also has the advantage that it would also cover naming a ship after the future King Charles given that it might take another 50 years before we see the next ships of the line.
Wiki RN Battleships
you can see the Great Harry (1512), Elizabeth (1559), Philip and Mary (renamed quickly!) and so on. It has been a bit erratic in application, though. The Prince George (1702) was named after the future George II and so no ship was named after his accession, there were also Royal Georges and a Royal William named after George III, IV and William IV, but all before they were crowned. I have no idea how the RN ended up with an HMS Victoria sloop in 1839, but they did name 2 more battleships after her so that was alright...
In the last 100 or so years, King Edward VII (1903) and King George V (1911) were straight forward, but in 1937 George VI named 'his' ship in memory of his father. The first capital ship, an aircraft carrier, of the present Queen's reign was going to be CVA-01 in the late 60s. It just looks like it will take 50 years longer than expected to build the first ship-of-the-line!
There was also a tradition of naming another ship after the Consort, hence the Queen Henrietta, Prince Albert, Queen Mary etc. I have seen a potential name for the CVA-02 quoted as Duke of Edinburgh, but that seems to have been sidelined for the new carriers...
As for PoW, she's the 8th of the line and it would be nice to see it a 'lucky name' again. It also has the advantage that it would also cover naming a ship after the future King Charles given that it might take another 50 years before we see the next ships of the line.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
it would also cover naming a ship after the future King Charles
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As I understand it the chances of him taking the title King Charles are vanishingly small. His rumoured choice of title is George VII.
Yes, Him
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it would be nice to see it a 'lucky name' again
Well the last HMS Prince of Wales wasn't very lucky. It was sunk, along with with HMS Repulse, by a Japanese air strike.
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Quote:
it would be nice to see it a 'lucky name' again
Well the last HMS Prince of Wales wasn't very lucky. It was sunk, along with with HMS Repulse, by a Japanese air strike.
it would be nice to see it a 'lucky name' again
Well the last HMS Prince of Wales wasn't very lucky. It was sunk, along with with HMS Repulse, by a Japanese air strike.
I really can't go back through 69 pages for the answer to this, so can someone tell me what aircraft will be available to put on these things? This detail seems strangely lacking from the news I've read.