Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Hi again Fanatic.
You might notice that the reply you quote was actually not addressed to you?
Beyond that, I do not intend to restate my position ad nauseum, despite your willingness to do that. My previous posts have covered the subject.
BTW, something new, the Budget didn't look very promising.
OAP
You might notice that the reply you quote was actually not addressed to you?
Beyond that, I do not intend to restate my position ad nauseum, despite your willingness to do that. My previous posts have covered the subject.
BTW, something new, the Budget didn't look very promising.
OAP
It's OK, the Navy have so much spare manpower they can afford to send them to London for a month to train up to do the changing of the guard!
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Area of Operations
Where, in the Northern hemisphere, does the QE class anticipate providing the strategic projection of power? Even with the range of the F-35B (as opposed to F35A or C), it is hard to identify a credible future theatre where Host Nation Support would not permit power projection without the need for a Carrier Strike Group, particularly considering stand-off and A2AD issues.
Add to this the problems associated with supporting the F35B reverse supply chain at range, it is difficult to understand its capability beyond 'soft power'....
Add to this the problems associated with supporting the F35B reverse supply chain at range, it is difficult to understand its capability beyond 'soft power'....
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The latest edition of World Naval Review is out and there is big article on the RN
Makes sobering reading- seems to have been a period in early 2017 when we had maybe only one or maybe no SSN at sea, the new T45 engines mods will be expensive and difficult to fit, the last Astute order seems to have disapeared, removing Ocean will seriously affect over teh beach capabilities, and manpower........
They have concerns about the delay in standing up a proper naval F35 squadron and very much doubt the Govt will ever allow the Carriers to beput in harm's way in any serious sense
Makes sobering reading- seems to have been a period in early 2017 when we had maybe only one or maybe no SSN at sea, the new T45 engines mods will be expensive and difficult to fit, the last Astute order seems to have disapeared, removing Ocean will seriously affect over teh beach capabilities, and manpower........
They have concerns about the delay in standing up a proper naval F35 squadron and very much doubt the Govt will ever allow the Carriers to beput in harm's way in any serious sense
In the event of soft power failing, it can provide vastly increased sortie rates and mission flexibility owing to closer proximity to the target for a start. Still horses for courses but it's a complementary capability that provides loads of options, especially in terms of mobility and quick redeployment or withdrawal.
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mission flexibility owing to closer proximity to the target
If the carrier will limited to projecting soft power, so be it, but if we want it to do more than that, then let's resource and equip it to do so.
I'm certain any adversary that the QE could be used against, is more than able to make a capability assessment of the threat it presents....
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"Or withdrawal"
I never realised we were thinking of repeating Norway 1940
I never realised we were thinking of repeating Norway 1940
Or at least, it would have stung the warmongering First Sea Lord whose administrative incompetence cost so many British lives in the cockup that he administered there.
He benefited from his own incompetence by capturing the Premiership as a result of his own failures in that abortion of a campaign.
@Cazalet33
Not sure what you've got against Adm of the Fleet Sir Dudley Pound, but there's nothing in my history book the that tells me he "captured the premiership".
The other guy certainly cocked a few things up militarily, but hey, in war "stuff happens" and on balance I think the overwhelming majority of historians would agree that it was right that WC got a lot of credit for his part in winning the war.
The other guy certainly cocked a few things up militarily, but hey, in war "stuff happens" and on balance I think the overwhelming majority of historians would agree that it was right that WC got a lot of credit for his part in winning the war.
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Not sure WSC "won" the war - but he did keep things alive long enough to bring in the Yanks and the Russians who, I think, have a greater claim to winning it.............
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I wrongly said First Sea Lord.
I should have said First Lord of the Admiralty.
It was in that post that he cocked up the war planning for the disastrous Norway campaign. It had also been in that post that he initiated the disastrous Dardanelles campaign which was another omnishambles.
To his credit, on the other hand, it was as First Lord of the Admiralty that he promoted the development of what we now call tanks on the naval budget. They were regarded as a naval thing because they were called landships. The word tank was a ruse to confuse German Intelligence with the cover story that the development work was on mobile water tanks for use in the North African desert.
I should have said First Lord of the Admiralty.
It was in that post that he cocked up the war planning for the disastrous Norway campaign. It had also been in that post that he initiated the disastrous Dardanelles campaign which was another omnishambles.
To his credit, on the other hand, it was as First Lord of the Admiralty that he promoted the development of what we now call tanks on the naval budget. They were regarded as a naval thing because they were called landships. The word tank was a ruse to confuse German Intelligence with the cover story that the development work was on mobile water tanks for use in the North African desert.
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Are the RN going to get 2-4 Ospreys for COD? If not replenishment of large items will mean a port call..............................
Of course at $ 73 mm each plus training etc.........................
Of course at $ 73 mm each plus training etc.........................
The conventionally-powered carrier HMS Invincible didn't have V-22 Ospreys yet she still holds the record of 166 consecutive days at sea without a port call between April and September 1982.
This even eclipses the US Navy's record of 159 consecutive days at sea set by the nuclear-powered USS Theodore Roosevelt in 1991.
That's really my point. How close to the targets is the QE going to get? The ROA of a fully loaded F35B , particularly in LO fit, would necessitate QE sitting well within range of anti shipping missiles. Add to that the list of currently unfounded enablers identified in the recent NAO report, and the capability appears somewhat impotent.
If the carrier will limited to projecting soft power, so be it, but if we want it to do more than that, then let's resource and equip it to do so.
I'm certain any adversary that the QE could be used against, is more than able to make a capability assessment of the threat it presents....
If the carrier will limited to projecting soft power, so be it, but if we want it to do more than that, then let's resource and equip it to do so.
I'm certain any adversary that the QE could be used against, is more than able to make a capability assessment of the threat it presents....
The enemy also has the C4ISTAR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Information/Intelligence, Surveillance, Targeting Acquisition and Reconnaissance) problem of getting close enough to the carrier to locate and and identify it, not to mention providing accurate targeting information to any ASMs.
FS Charles de Gaulle with her Rafales and USS Kearsarge with her much shorter range AV-8Bs managed well enough off Libya during ELLAMY. Their aircraft were able to fly multiple sorties each day owing to their closer proximity to the target area.
Thread Starter
That's the raison d'etre of the Type 45 AD (Air Defence) destroyers and any accompanying allied AD escorts, not to mention the F-35B in AD role.
The enemy also has the C4ISTAR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Information/Intelligence, Surveillance, Targeting Acquisition and Reconnaissance) problem of getting close enough to the carrier to locate and and identify it, not to mention providing accurate targeting information to any ASMs.
FS Charles de Gaulle with her Rafales and USS Kearsarge with her much shorter range AV-8Bs managed well enough off Libya during ELLAMY. Their aircraft were able to fly multiple sorties each day owing to their closer proximity to the target area.
The enemy also has the C4ISTAR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Information/Intelligence, Surveillance, Targeting Acquisition and Reconnaissance) problem of getting close enough to the carrier to locate and and identify it, not to mention providing accurate targeting information to any ASMs.
FS Charles de Gaulle with her Rafales and USS Kearsarge with her much shorter range AV-8Bs managed well enough off Libya during ELLAMY. Their aircraft were able to fly multiple sorties each day owing to their closer proximity to the target area.
Here is an interesting link that was found by an RAF contact on another site. It debunks many of the lazy myths surrounding the carriers:
The myths surrounding the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers
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Why? What's wrong with Chinooks?
In an A2AD environment, we will be hugely constrained - hence my earlier comment on HNS.
Why? That's what the AD destroyers and F-35Bs in the AD role are for, especially when combined with Crowsnest.