RAF JPA Rollout

[Ginseng]

STH, Rev I Tin

I'm not sitting here with JSP 752 in front of me, but so far as I can recall the difference in eligibility between senior and junior rate for years 7 and 8 hangs on whether the school charges the same "senior rate" fees for those years as it does for the following years. If it does, then to the best of my belief you are entitled the the senior rate of CEA commensurate with the rules. However, if it doesn't, your entitlement is only to the junior rate. If we are talking about children who will move from a "prep school" to a senior school at 13, even though they may be essentially on the same site and identified as two parts of the same school, it may be even more complicated still. A small amount of homework should provide the answer.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

My school charges a higher fee for years 7 and 8 than for years 6 and below.
£4000 per term for year 6 and below against £4700 years 7 and 8.

Currently getting 2 lots of lower rate.(2 x £3650)

[Ginseng]

Rev I Tin

Okay. Then I think you may have a case for Senior Rate, but I am not 100% sure. It may well depend whether the charge for years 7 and 8 is exactly the same as, or lower than, year 9 and above. I'll do some digging over the next few days and try to find out.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

Ok, thanks for having a look.
The school is a prep school therefore only goes up to year 8.
After that it is a change of school onto secondary boarding, Year 9 onwards.

Best regards,

[Ginseng]

Rev I Tin

I am looking at JSP 752 Edition 1 dated 1 Jun 06. Adimittedly it is not the most current edition (4?), which I can't check until next week, but I do not think that Chapter 9 (Education Allowances) has changed significantly since Edition 1. Quotes:

DEFINITIONS

09.0109 Stages of Education. For the purpose of CEA, a child's education is broken down into 3 distinct stages set out below. the age of the child at which each satge commences may vary with the school attended but in general, junior or preparatory school ceases between the ages of 11 and 13...... (my bold)

09.0203 Rates and Conditions of Payment. The rate of CEA(Board) is determined by the stage of education being undertaken .....

d. Different education allowance rates apply for preparatory and middle/senior schools. Junior rates will be paid for children attending primary, junior or preparatory schools. Senior rates will be paid for children attending secondary/senior schools. Where, however, a school covers more than one stage of education and has asubstantial increase in fees for those entering Year 7 (normallt age 11/12), and there is evidence that the National Curriculum is being followed, the Senior Rate of of CEA(Board) will be paid fromthe beginning of year 7 (start of Autumn term). Schools which do not increase their fees in year 7 will not attract the senior rate at that point. The appropriate rate of CEA(Board) payable is indicated as a code on the Accredited Schools Database (ASD) and any questions on entitlement should be staffed to JPAC Pay and Allowances Casework Cell (PACC).


Seems to depend on whether your children are attending the "same" school which covers both preparatory and senior stages. Whether this means under the same roof exactly is not abundantly clear. However, you now have the information on which to base further questions. I will check the latest version for any pertinent changes next week.

Jesus! Reading JSPs late on a saturday night! I must be a sad b*****d!

Regards

Ginseng

[SirToppamHat]

Ginseng

You may be a S-B (your words not mine), but thanks, it's much appreciated. I suspect I am about to be over-issued as the charges at my sons' school do not increase in years 7 and 8 (though I will be suggesting that the Bursar has a look at it!). I will simply stash the money away and await the inevitable note of return.

It all seems so trivial when compared with the woes of our friends and their families at Kinloss just now.

Regards

STH

[tablet_eraser]

I've been over-issued with pay 3 times over the last few months. Despite highlighting this to JPAC and HR, no action has been taken to recover it. So, it's currently tucked away in an ISA earning interest until they take it back. There seems to be no way to repay the money with a cheque as under the old system. If they're so determined to make me keep more money than I'm owed, so be it!

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng

Yes you are sad, but thanks a lot.

Armed with that info I will contact JPAC to get through to PACC. I was advised by the Service Childrens Education people at Upavon that years 7 and 8 at my school is graded as Level 4 on the ASD. Hope that's good!

[Ginseng]

STH

I wouldn't be surprised if you find you are entitled to the higher rate, because it seems it should have been driven by whatever marker has been placed against the school in the database, which is not something you can influence. As regards your last comment, I absolutely agree, but even in tragic circumstances the rest of life has to go on.

Regards

Ginseng

[Ginseng]

Rev I Tin, STH

JSP 752 is now up to DII Version 4 dated 3 Aug 06.

The section 9.0203, sub para d, which I qouted from on Saturday now contains the following extra words, inserted between "....at that point." and "The appropriate rate ....":

"However, when a preparatory school ending at Year 8 (age 13) follows the National Curriculum, increases its fees at Year 7 (age 11/12) and considers that its final 2 years equate to the first 2 years of a senior school, the school will not attract the senior rate of CEA(Board). As a child would not be able to complete the senior/secondary stage of education at that school, the entitlement will only be to the junior rate of CEA(Board)."
(all bolds are mine).

I suspect that this is significant in at least one of your cases. I'm not sure how this rule would be interpreted where a prep school was associated with, but identifiably separate from, a senior school as part of the same umbrella school organisation, and the normal practice was for most of the prep school children to pass on to the senior school. There might be an exceptional case to say that the children were then completeing their secondary/senior stage of education within the same school, but that is a question you will have to put to the experts!

Bad news, I suspect, but I hope this helps.

Regards

Ginseng

[Rev I. Tin]

Ginseng,

Thanks for the clarification. Officially yes, that new ruling affects my eldest, however, headmaster informed me two parents have successfully contested it and received a manual payment at the higher rate.

Awaiting the call back from JPAC PACC.

Thanks for all your help.

[airborne_artist]

MJ - which paper?

[Statty]

Originally Posted by airborne_artist

MJ - which paper?

It may well have been read on a train though on a Sunday I doubt.

[Statty]

Originally Posted by Mike Jenvey

A pat on the back to the JNCO who got a scathing letter about JPA published in one of the UK Sunday papers.

Though Mike that may be what he deserves what do you honestly think he will get?

I suspect a 1-way/no coffee/hat on type situation. The only question would be who does it. Seems the typical way things are going..........<img>

[tgarden]

Some more ministerial answers on JPA can be found in the Recess Hansard.

[Farfrompuken]

As a member of the 'Underpaid' column for the last 4 months, I find it hard to believe only 74 others were underpaid in July (also underpaid Aug too).

I KNOW there is a bug in the system that if you are elegible for GYH(M) allowance and recently been on det, you will be PAYING your GYH(M) as a deduction rather than receiving it. They still haven't fixed that bug.
I bet you there's a few in that boat.

I'm only owed about £800 now, but I'm still paying for a loan I took out to cover me when I didn't get paid in July. Won't repay till I get all my dosh. RAF will foot the bill for interest and charges for sure.

I am now looking to do my ATPLs at the first opportunity as I stated before, I will not work for an outfit that doesn't pay me correctly and on time. Good luck RN!!!

Truly pathetic.

[SirToppamHat]

I am sorry, but I simply do not believe those figures for July.

Still owed £13K CEA/BSA, due tomorrow (allegedly), but they said that last week and the week before. Current overdraft £4,000. QR1000 Report in process - have apologised in advance to the Staish, but it's the only way I can get the O/D fees back; he agrees and is not holding it against me personally.

A farce. Heads should roll, but reading that poppycock in Hansard you would think all is well with it. Poor, poor RN; I thought that the Senior Service would have the good sense to tell EDS to stick it until it is ABSOLUTELY SORTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STH

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

And neither do I!

I discovered on 21 Jul that I was about to have £733 deducted for no good reason and boy was I wrong, they not only stole that off me, but took another £663 ( but gave me a credit of £530). I reported it to JPAC and they said no worries it'll be sorted by end of August. Stuff that I thought and submitted a formal complaint to AFPAA as there was no method to give a mid-month payment. Along came the August pay day and the buggers took another £600 with another £733 showing as a outstanding debt to come out of Sep's pay.

Have not recieved any reply to my written formal complaint and having gained some info from JPAC (they haven't actioned the pay amendment or my complaint) I submitted a redress today.

I guess it'll get me a 'chat' with the Staish, but I couldn't care less as this sorry tale has been one of the last straws (the other is a spat with Defence estates and MHS) and I'm going to submit a PVR in the NY.

Sad really after nearly 20 years but it won't get any better I'm sure..

HPT

[Farfrompuken]

STH,

with you, myself and a good chum of mine, I've identified 1/25th of those who have been underpaid in less than 10 seconds!!

I think we're in good company.....

As I said, mine's a small debt, but no matter how small, one's employer is obliged to pay up or faces gross breach of contract. I had to work hard to get it down to such a small level.

We ARE all volunteers, but that does NOT make my work charitable!! I have mouths to feed and a mortgage to pay. However, I'm not so desperate to have to put up with this, thankfully.

I love my job, but my trust in the system has evaporated. I feel totally undervalued as an employee. What happens when I'm OOA for extended periods and I don't get paid then? The RAF have some serious work to restore my faith. Failure to do so will result in me seeking a new employer. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that.

[SubdiFuge]

Hansard quotes 227 overpayments and 258 underpayments in June. The extract from AMP note of 28 July would seem to contradict this and says there were 650 pay errors for that month.

PTC/186/CINC(1491/06)
28 Jul 06
Stn Cdrs
Copy to:
AFBSC
MA/DCDS(Pers)
All RAF 2* Officers
All RAF 1* Officers
RAF JPA ROLL-OUT UPDATE
1. I fully recognise that the introduction of JPA to the RAF has had many more problems than were envisaged. I truly believe that the RAF did everything possible to prepare itself for the delivery of JPA and I know that significant numbers of personnel have worked tirelessly to overcome the difficulties that we face. However, the fact remains that it is an immature product and much work remains to be done. That said, when I consider what has been achieved already, I am in no doubt that JPA will provide the level of service we require for the future. This note provides background to current JPA issues and explains what is being done to resolve them. I have provided a similar text for publication in the next issue of RAF News.
2. JPAC Enquiry Centre. The Enquiry Centre is the ‘decisive point’ which could unlock many of the current difficulties. Arguably, any new IT system of this size will have its problems. However, these have been compounded by the inability of the JPAC Enquiry Centre to provide the level of service required. With over 5,000 requests outstanding, much work remains to resolve the problems (although we know that some of these 5,000 enquiries have been submitted 4 or 5 times in an attempt to get a reply). Only when this backlog has been removed, which should be by Sep 06, can AFPAA’s customer charter standards of timely response be achieved. It is worth noting that the Enquiry Centre began with a staff of 35, it now has 55 and will increase to 90 in the Autumn when the Royal Navy plan to come on-line. We expect a ‘steady state’ hit rate of some 60 RAF enquiries per day compared with nearly 190 at the moment. RAF staff are already supplementing the JPAC back office and will be there until at least the end of Aug; in recognising how important it is to fix this, a further 6 RAF personnel will be detached to assist for this period. These SACs and Cpls are doing an excellent job in helping with the clearance of outstanding queries and providing a level of Service knowledge previously lacking in the Enquiry Centre.
3. Training. The training provided to RAF self service users and HR professionals has not been good enough. A complete overhaul of the e-learning training is being undertaken to provide a revised package in October 2006. In addition, RAF HR staffs are working with JPA staffs to produce simplified “how do I” guides for self-service and professional users. Further HR specialist training is being carried out at regional seminars, the first of which was held at RAF Benson on 20 Jul 06. Others will follow at RAFC Cranwell and RAF Leuchars in the next 2-3 weeks. A matrix has been distributed to units describing the division of responsibilities between unit staff and the JPAC EC. This work includes links to documents describing how to carry out specific actions. The 2nd edition of this document will be published this week and should clarify the JPAC/Unit HR areas of responsibility. Additionally, AFPAA are forming a roving training team which will be in place by mid-Sep 06.
4. Posting Preferences. To date, some 6,000 RAF personnel have yet to log on to JPA for the first time. Moreover, only 16,000 individuals have logged their choices of future assignment and location. Step by step instructions on exactly how to enter these choices are available on the JPA ‘Self Service Guide’. This basic action needs to be taken as soon as possible.
5. There is a raft of other work underway, including:
a. Flight Sub-Imprest Administration. A paper has been submitted to the Joint Requirements Steering group proposing improvements in Flight Sub-Imprest administration and proposing a maximum rate rather than actuals for incidental expenses.
b. Pay Statements. Units have reported that Pay statements have been addressed wrongly. The pay statement address is taken from RAF establishment data. It is the Unit responsibility to ensure that this data is accurate. I understand that there is a backlog of establishment updates to be input into JPA by the RAF. This will be resolved by Oct 06. Pay errors continue to receive most urgent attention in recognition of our responsibility to pay people accurately and on time. With the Jul pay now going into bank accounts, I will compare the error rate with the 650 in Jun. This compares with an average of 150-200 a month before JPA was implemented. I make this latter point because there have always been pay problems and we should not pretend that they will be eradicated totally. What I expect in the future is a far more responsive system than we have ever had before.
c. Subsistence Rates. Units and individuals have registered discontent about the capped actual subsistence system. The new systems will pay for the food and drink consumed, up to a rate exactly equivalent to the allowance under the previous system. It will not allow a claim for cash in lieu of food, as was previously the case.
d. Other Allowances. Other allowances have been rebalanced and retargeted within the same overall budget. This has allowed payment of Disturbance Allowance to single personnel for the first time and for higher levels of LSA to compensate those who spend the most time away from home.
e. RN Go-Live. Planning for the RN roll-out is well under way. The RAF will not have access to JPA from 14 - 22 Oct 06. This window will allow RN data to be migrated onto the system. Other ideas such as having a dedicated RN helpline number at go live, are being considered to prevent RN roll out impacting adversely on the RAF. The JPA system is being bolstered with extra hardware in advance of RN launch.
6. Feedback. Senior RAF Administrators attending this week’s Personnel Conference have been briefed by my Focal Point Team Leader and AFPAA’s D Change. This session addressed the issues submitted by units and gave direction on how they would be addressed (Annex A refers). I hope that this two-way dialogue has enabled stn staff to represent local concerns and take back the hard facts. On the same basis, Chf Clks are invited to visit the JPAC and AFPAA Model Office at Centurion Building in Gosport. Please ensure that your Chf Clk takes advantage of this opportunity [points of contact are: Mrs Doreen Allen (93844 ext 2126) or WO1 Hill (93844 ext 2567)].
7. I recognise that the speed of JPA improvements has not been at the pace that any of us would have wished. If I look back over the past 4 months, we have made huge steps forward, from system functionality through to data accuracy. Perhaps most importantly is that we understand JPA better. Whilst progress has been slow, we have broken the back of this issue and once the problems in the JPAC Enquiry Centre have been addressed, we will be well on the path to success. Rest assured, I will continue to drive for an improved service.
AMP
Annex:
A. Major JPA Issues Raised by Units.

I'll post the annex too if anybody is interested.
SDF