Free Masons - Should they "come out"?
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I find it bazaar, that a “rational” person can contemplate “signing up” to the freemasons without the knowledge of what they are about to get themselves into. They cannot possibly have the knowledge before they enter, as it is secret!
Makes me wonder what else they are prepared to commit themselves, or signatures to without finding out before hand what they are about to enter into? Maybe they are prepared to sign a contract without knowing what they are signing. Even more disturbing, I ask, would they be prepared to sign a legal document at work? E.g., an a/c tech log, load sheet etc., etc. without the required knowledge to be in a position to do so and relying on the word of “mates”.
Makes me wonder what else they are prepared to commit themselves, or signatures to without finding out before hand what they are about to enter into? Maybe they are prepared to sign a contract without knowing what they are signing. Even more disturbing, I ask, would they be prepared to sign a legal document at work? E.g., an a/c tech log, load sheet etc., etc. without the required knowledge to be in a position to do so and relying on the word of “mates”.
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Originally Posted by Formally Known As
Makes me wonder what else they are prepared to commit themselves, or signatures to without finding out before hand what they are about to enter into? Maybe they are prepared to sign a contract without knowing what they are signing. Even more disturbing, I ask, would they be prepared to sign a legal document at work? E.g., an a/c tech log, load sheet etc., etc. without the required knowledge to be in a position to do so and relying on the word of “mates”.
Formally known as
I hope you remain known as 'Formally known as'.
If you think that our servicemen would fill in aircraft paperwork because a fellow mason asked them to do so then you are a complete and utter t
t! How dare you suggest that belonging to an age old (much older than you think)organisation would lead to gross professional deriliction of duty. There are many resons why people will put their signatures on bits of paper without due thought and consideration, but being a Mason is not one of them. Our people are professional regardless of their private little hobbies you muppet.I have NEVER asked a favour of a fellow Mason and never would. If i were in utter financial dire straits i could ask for help and would recieve it, but i doubt i would ever ask for help unless my family were starving (in which case it must come from their pocket NOT by preferential treatment, promotion or special business favours). I would not ask someone to sign a document that anothers life depends on because he's a mate.
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Grand Poo Bah
Once went out with a girl whose father was the Grand Poo Bah (or whatever) of the local lodge. I saw a copy of the masons 'bible' on the sideboard and had a sneaky peak. Full of the formats of the bizarre rituals ... interesting reading.
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"I hope you remain known as 'Formally known as'."
As I dont have eyes in the back of my head, or relish the though of a knife in said back, or my throat cut etc., etc., I too hope I remain formally known as.
As I dont have eyes in the back of my head, or relish the though of a knife in said back, or my throat cut etc., etc., I too hope I remain formally known as.
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Formally Known As
Yeh! we do that all the time, stabbing people in the back and cutting their throats, we are all mad murderers and serial killers. You are a sad, lonely, prejudiced, ill informed, ignorant individual, without the intelligence to answer the criticisms to your last W K post reference number 82 in case you are confused. Please leave this thread and go and sit in your own little sad corner and solve the world’s problems. As I said again from your post in 82 you are a bigot who does not have the gumption to answer my post number 83.
Yours in anticipation
Tigs2
Yeh! we do that all the time, stabbing people in the back and cutting their throats, we are all mad murderers and serial killers. You are a sad, lonely, prejudiced, ill informed, ignorant individual, without the intelligence to answer the criticisms to your last W
K post reference number 82 in case you are confused. Please leave this thread and go and sit in your own little sad corner and solve the world’s problems. As I said again from your post in 82 you are a bigot who does not have the gumption to answer my post number 83.Yours in anticipation
Tigs2
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FKA/Tigs
Now, now you two - take a deep breath.........and reeeelaxxxxx!
I've nothing against the Masons - I thought they were quite a good band - or was that the Mansons?
Well, whatever! I do know a few Masons and, as Tigs said, they do a lot for charity and I don't care whether they roll their trousers up while 'singing ging-gang-guly' and 'three cheers for the holy grail', they do a lot more good than harm - moreover they seem to have their heads screwed on and don't tolerate any t~ssers.
However,I have to admit that I know diddly-squawt about their 'rituals' and would have to know an awful lot more about that side of things before I put my name to any bit of paper - and I don't think I would, anyway. That doesn't make them bad... and me mad - or even vice-versa!
Now, now you two - take a deep breath.........and reeeelaxxxxx!
I've nothing against the Masons - I thought they were quite a good band - or was that the Mansons?
Well, whatever! I do know a few Masons and, as Tigs said, they do a lot for charity and I don't care whether they roll their trousers up while 'singing ging-gang-guly' and 'three cheers for the holy grail', they do a lot more good than harm - moreover they seem to have their heads screwed on and don't tolerate any t~ssers.
However,I have to admit that I know diddly-squawt about their 'rituals' and would have to know an awful lot more about that side of things before I put my name to any bit of paper - and I don't think I would, anyway. That doesn't make them bad... and me mad - or even vice-versa!
Hellbound
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I don't pretend to know too much about Free-Masonry (if there is such a word), but really why do people feel the need to stick their nose into other people's private lives? If it is run as a club, with rules and regulations, even a code of behaviour that everyone signs up to willingly, why should I care as long as everything they do is legal. I say legal and not 'above board' because why should it be open to everyone to see? I understand concerns over nest-feathering and the like, but are you really telling me that doesn't happen in other walks of life (old school tie and all that)?
If we start to get into the habit of making people declare their membership to Clubs, where will it end? There are people out there who would seriously cast doubt on a individual's suitability for a job if they found out they supported a certain football team (clearly Man Utd supporters could not get a job in Manchester...), and everyone has their own bias. Religion is a great example I won't get into!
Personally I found talking to a Mason mate of mine a really interesting experience, he was very selfless and it just seemed like an OK thing to do. Let them be and let us all look more closely at our own lives and see if we do as much for our brothers and sisters in the World.
If we start to get into the habit of making people declare their membership to Clubs, where will it end? There are people out there who would seriously cast doubt on a individual's suitability for a job if they found out they supported a certain football team (clearly Man Utd supporters could not get a job in Manchester...), and everyone has their own bias. Religion is a great example I won't get into!
Personally I found talking to a Mason mate of mine a really interesting experience, he was very selfless and it just seemed like an OK thing to do. Let them be and let us all look more closely at our own lives and see if we do as much for our brothers and sisters in the World.
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"there are none so blind........"
FKA
If your postings reflect genuine misgivings, and you believe that your life ( or anyone else's life ) is adversely affected by the existence and activities of Freemasons, then please let us have chapter and verse.
I, for one, will be only too happy to try and set your mind at rest.
If your postings reflect genuine misgivings, and you believe that your life ( or anyone else's life ) is adversely affected by the existence and activities of Freemasons, then please let us have chapter and verse.
I, for one, will be only too happy to try and set your mind at rest.
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Tigs2
Don't you ever try and pull w**k on me.
Just calm down a little and try and sort this thing out in an orderly fashion. My initial posting on this thread consisted of 2 paragraphs. I noted with interest you have not mentioned the first paragraph in your rabid ravings. Could I take it you are in agreement?
As for other posts and 82's I haven't a clue what you are on about. Plain english would suffice. Please try not to rant in future, that's a good chap.
MostlyModerate
Well, hello to you Sir. You come across as a decent sort of a chap with no tantrums and armed with a perfectly reasonable question. The answer is no.
Don't you ever try and pull w**k on me.
Just calm down a little and try and sort this thing out in an orderly fashion. My initial posting on this thread consisted of 2 paragraphs. I noted with interest you have not mentioned the first paragraph in your rabid ravings. Could I take it you are in agreement?
As for other posts and 82's I haven't a clue what you are on about. Plain english would suffice. Please try not to rant in future, that's a good chap.
MostlyModerate
Well, hello to you Sir. You come across as a decent sort of a chap with no tantrums and armed with a perfectly reasonable question. The answer is no.
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There is no doubt that the principles of Freemasonry are completely laudable, but it is the practice that in many cases gives pause for concern. It is often described not as a corrupt organisation, but an corrupting one.
There is no doubt that many Freemasons give their fellow masons unfair advantage, try being a Glasgow policeman or lawyer and not being a mason and see what I mean, and I must take issue with a previous post in this thread, Scottish masons are not open, in fact are much more secret (should I say discreet) than anything I have experienced in England.
I cannot recall ever seeing Scottish Freemasons in open parade in the streets. Perhaps there is a confusion between them and the Orange Lodge organisation, but that is a thread for another occasion......
There is no doubt that many Freemasons give their fellow masons unfair advantage, try being a Glasgow policeman or lawyer and not being a mason and see what I mean, and I must take issue with a previous post in this thread, Scottish masons are not open, in fact are much more secret (should I say discreet) than anything I have experienced in England.
I cannot recall ever seeing Scottish Freemasons in open parade in the streets. Perhaps there is a confusion between them and the Orange Lodge organisation, but that is a thread for another occasion......
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Crashed and Burned
Every single year at a lodges installation, Scottish lodges have a parade. I belong to a lodge that has a parade the Saturday before every Christmas. Also every year the lodge itself holds all the Burns poetry competitions for all the school kids, at which all mums, dads and teachers come along. The lodge is infact the center of the community. If you would like to come next St Stevens day to the parade (Mason or not) please let me know, you are welcome (dont know of a single english lodge that does this). Infact as a mason you can knock on the door of any lodge for any meeting and you are welcome in. In England i can only go to a meeting if formally invited.
Formally Known As
you have little right to lay down any ground rules. I work for charity and contribute more to charity in one year than you will do in a life time. If you take it upon yourself to suggest that i or my fellow Masons within the service would deem to sign for a job never done because they are fellow masons then you can go and shove it up your a e. Your remarks are offensive and a slur against professional aviators and technicians. in such a case i hold every right to 'dare to pull w k over you' as you so nicely put it, because you are in fact a w r, and after such remarks as your's you do not deserve a civil response. An apology to all those you have offended would not go amiss. In answer to your first paragraph in your post number 82, i was fully aware at each stage what i would be signing to up to before i did, and at every stage had the opportunity to say no. I did it because it was a good thing. But of such things from your bigoted mindset it appears you well never any idea.
Every single year at a lodges installation, Scottish lodges have a parade. I belong to a lodge that has a parade the Saturday before every Christmas. Also every year the lodge itself holds all the Burns poetry competitions for all the school kids, at which all mums, dads and teachers come along. The lodge is infact the center of the community. If you would like to come next St Stevens day to the parade (Mason or not) please let me know, you are welcome (dont know of a single english lodge that does this). Infact as a mason you can knock on the door of any lodge for any meeting and you are welcome in. In England i can only go to a meeting if formally invited.
Formally Known As
you have little right to lay down any ground rules. I work for charity and contribute more to charity in one year than you will do in a life time. If you take it upon yourself to suggest that i or my fellow Masons within the service would deem to sign for a job never done because they are fellow masons then you can go and shove it up your a
e. Your remarks are offensive and a slur against professional aviators and technicians. in such a case i hold every right to 'dare to pull w k over you' as you so nicely put it, because you are in fact a w r, and after such remarks as your's you do not deserve a civil response. An apology to all those you have offended would not go amiss. In answer to your first paragraph in your post number 82, i was fully aware at each stage what i would be signing to up to before i did, and at every stage had the opportunity to say no. I did it because it was a good thing. But of such things from your bigoted mindset it appears you well never any idea.
After youve freed the Masons I reckon we should all campaign for the Renault Five, they were stitched up by a bent copper and playing cards on a camel train to Cairo at the time.
Got my coat.
Got my coat.
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[quote=Crashed&Burned]
There is no doubt that many Freemasons give their fellow masons unfair advantage,
C & B
As requested above, please let us have chapter and verse. As I understand it, for there to be " no doubt", there must be incontrovertible proof.
Lay out your evidence, in full, with names, dates and locations, and send it to either the Grand Lodge of Scotland or the United Grand Lodge of England. You may be assured that genuine complaints will be thoroughly investigated and disciplinary action taken if proved.
Otherwise, please desist from making wild accusations which serve only to smear Freemasonry in general and give gratuitous offence to its members.
There is no doubt that many Freemasons give their fellow masons unfair advantage,
C & B
As requested above, please let us have chapter and verse. As I understand it, for there to be " no doubt", there must be incontrovertible proof.
Lay out your evidence, in full, with names, dates and locations, and send it to either the Grand Lodge of Scotland or the United Grand Lodge of England. You may be assured that genuine complaints will be thoroughly investigated and disciplinary action taken if proved.
Otherwise, please desist from making wild accusations which serve only to smear Freemasonry in general and give gratuitous offence to its members.
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Experience shows that masons do give advantage to their 'brothers' and it is naive to suggest otherwise. I have seen it happen time and time again. I am afraid it is the norm rather than the exception as some posts suggest.
As for the kind invitation to join, I must decline. Any success I have had has been by my own efforts in what I believe has been open competition.
What is the point of joining any secret organisation? Doing good? Sounds like the old line' He does a lot for charity but he doesn't like to talk about it..' It would appear that masons talk all the time about their charity work - why do they need a secret society as the vehicle?
How do masons feel about other secret organisations? Happy?
As for the kind invitation to join, I must decline. Any success I have had has been by my own efforts in what I believe has been open competition.
What is the point of joining any secret organisation? Doing good? Sounds like the old line' He does a lot for charity but he doesn't like to talk about it..' It would appear that masons talk all the time about their charity work - why do they need a secret society as the vehicle?
How do masons feel about other secret organisations? Happy?
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beagle wrote:
'If they choose to have a secret society, so what. Does it really matter?'
yes it does because there's suspicion that a funny handshake will get you a job, in a world that supposedly functions on the basis of merit. if membership is declared, surely there can be no issue?
southside wrote:
'There is nothing secret about freemasonry. No hidden agenda, no sacrificial lambs, no vestal virgins and no politics. Freemasonry is simply concerned with showing tolerance and respect. Freemasons are charitable and work for the community.'
this is very interesting.... perhaps you could provide a link to their published equal opportunies policy?
and tigs2 wrote:
'You wont find a bad bone in the lodge.'
oh really? what about jack the ripper and where's our grail gone hmm? btw interesting term: 'i *belong* to a lodge' ?
now about all these secret airfields....
'If they choose to have a secret society, so what. Does it really matter?'
yes it does because there's suspicion that a funny handshake will get you a job, in a world that supposedly functions on the basis of merit. if membership is declared, surely there can be no issue?
southside wrote:
'There is nothing secret about freemasonry. No hidden agenda, no sacrificial lambs, no vestal virgins and no politics. Freemasonry is simply concerned with showing tolerance and respect. Freemasons are charitable and work for the community.'
this is very interesting.... perhaps you could provide a link to their published equal opportunies policy?
and tigs2 wrote:
'You wont find a bad bone in the lodge.'
oh really? what about jack the ripper and where's our grail gone hmm? btw interesting term: 'i *belong* to a lodge' ?
now about all these secret airfields....
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GODDDD this is getting really tiresome.
Crashed and burned you say that experience has shown that masons give advantages to their brothers yet you also admit that you have declined to join. You are WRONG Cand B and you have clearly ignored the previous posts from 5 pages of people, many of whom are Masons have posted.
Civjob
wher are you going??? you say
and tigs2 wrote:
'You wont find a bad bone in the lodge.'
oh really? what about jack the ripper and where's our grail gone hmm? btw interesting term: 'i *belong* to a lodge' ?
So the history books say that one murderer in history 'may' have been a mason (you dont know and nobody can actually prove it") i do believe that the rest of humanity in terms of murderers are not Masons. About the grail, who says it is your grail?? I have seen the grail it is in !!!!
Ooh sorry i almost forgot myself, i cant tell you!!! Bye the way just so that you know i have met many black masons, masons in wheel chairs and female masons! Your point about equal opportunities is!! Furthermore yes I 'belong' to a lodge, and i am proud of it, and the only persons i do favours to are the poor. Bye the way about the theory about the grail, bugger nearly forgot myself again. I am also a member of the Knights Templar, and you never will be, and you will never know, I do!!
Crashed and burned you say that experience has shown that masons give advantages to their brothers yet you also admit that you have declined to join. You are WRONG Cand B and you have clearly ignored the previous posts from 5 pages of people, many of whom are Masons have posted.
Civjob
wher are you going??? you say
and tigs2 wrote:
'You wont find a bad bone in the lodge.'
oh really? what about jack the ripper and where's our grail gone hmm? btw interesting term: 'i *belong* to a lodge' ?
So the history books say that one murderer in history 'may' have been a mason (you dont know and nobody can actually prove it") i do believe that the rest of humanity in terms of murderers are not Masons. About the grail, who says it is your grail?? I have seen the grail it is in !!!!
Ooh sorry i almost forgot myself, i cant tell you!!! Bye the way just so that you know i have met many black masons, masons in wheel chairs and female masons! Your point about equal opportunities is!! Furthermore yes I 'belong' to a lodge, and i am proud of it, and the only persons i do favours to are the poor. Bye the way about the theory about the grail, bugger nearly forgot myself again. I am also a member of the Knights Templar, and you never will be, and you will never know, I do!!