Vulcan Limit
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Re: Vulcan Limit
Whatever.
Some capability gap we've had to endure.
Anyway. Will never forget the first time I saw a Vulcan. One flew over my house in about '74. Was mightily impressed, even if I didn't know what it was back then. I guess it was about FL005.
Some capability gap we've had to endure.
Anyway. Will never forget the first time I saw a Vulcan. One flew over my house in about '74. Was mightily impressed, even if I didn't know what it was back then. I guess it was about FL005.
Re: Vulcan Limit
You probably did know at the time, but soon afterwards the chemtrail subjugation effect would have made you forget......
Cunning Artificer
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Re: Vulcan Limit
Dispensing devices were installed in the redundant 'window' hoppers
...Ooops, another cold war era secret slips out of the bag.
Re: Vulcan Limit
Plus several sets of golf bats in the recuperator bays....
'Mongo' once brought back a complete ride-on lawnmower back in a tin triangle - but declared it. That miserable b*gger 'Farquar the Revenue' (remember him, busta?) charged him car tax on it, as well as duty! Although he did later get it back when he explained that he was hardly likely to drive it up Lincoln High St.!
'Mongo' once brought back a complete ride-on lawnmower back in a tin triangle - but declared it. That miserable b*gger 'Farquar the Revenue' (remember him, busta?) charged him car tax on it, as well as duty! Although he did later get it back when he explained that he was hardly likely to drive it up Lincoln High St.!
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Re: Vulcan Limit
Pontius Nav - Re the Calc 3 and low level laydown, I vaguely remember having to wind the height down to -500ft. Whether this was to frig the ballistics or to "interface" with the Calc 5 to produce a radar picture which would otherwise consist of a a big empty hole in the middle I do not recall (which is probably why I spent more time on 27 than most!).
BEags - A ride-on lawn mower! Ha! A certain AEO sqn ldr brought back a full size billiard/snooker table (from Singapore I think), as well as the usual assortment of camphor wood furniture and sundry items for consumption. You mentioned "g-suit" in earlier post; not in my time, not in the sense of the sexy leg warmers that are now to be seen. We were equipped with the partial pressure jerkin for high level ops, an inelegant but comfortable shoulder to crutch infaltable body warmer; all the usual LSJ accroutrements were incorporated and it came in a dashing range of coulours - well, grey or gray. Not to counteract g-forces, but to keep vital organs inside the chest cavity in case of rapid decompression. Highest? In excess of 560.
And if you really want to know what 27 did back in the seventies...dig out copies of the Lincoln Echo, where we usually found details of a forthcoming short-notice deployment before notification by official channels. Or one could have read the national press of the day to find out who was doing what in places distant and foriegn. Nor were we the only ones doing it.
Those things hanging from the wings were in fact pre-production laser guided photon torpedoes with hyper-drive pulse motors
BEags - A ride-on lawn mower! Ha! A certain AEO sqn ldr brought back a full size billiard/snooker table (from Singapore I think), as well as the usual assortment of camphor wood furniture and sundry items for consumption. You mentioned "g-suit" in earlier post; not in my time, not in the sense of the sexy leg warmers that are now to be seen. We were equipped with the partial pressure jerkin for high level ops, an inelegant but comfortable shoulder to crutch infaltable body warmer; all the usual LSJ accroutrements were incorporated and it came in a dashing range of coulours - well, grey or gray. Not to counteract g-forces, but to keep vital organs inside the chest cavity in case of rapid decompression. Highest? In excess of 560.
And if you really want to know what 27 did back in the seventies...dig out copies of the Lincoln Echo, where we usually found details of a forthcoming short-notice deployment before notification by official channels. Or one could have read the national press of the day to find out who was doing what in places distant and foriegn. Nor were we the only ones doing it.
Those things hanging from the wings were in fact pre-production laser guided photon torpedoes with hyper-drive pulse motors
Last edited by HTB; 17th Jan 2006 at 08:54.
Re: Vulcan Limit
The Victor K2 was limited to FL490 as well due to the Mk17 regulator. However, the K2 had short wingtips, uprigged ailerons to move the centre of pressure forward to preserve fatigue life and the AAR pods as well as the underwing tanks which were fixed on the tanker. This meant that 490 was pretty much it's max altitude although I flew one up to 520 and a bit once.
The short tips on the K2 gave a span of 117'. The B2 (bomber) had medium tips giving 120' and that could reach FL630 once the underwings were dropped. But a clean SR2 (recce) with the long tips bolted on giving a span of 123' and no underwings could reach FL670! The SR2 with 543 Sqn did the secondary role before 27 took it over.
But at altitude, the K2 handled like a dog. At light weights, the engines could push you up to a height that there was only about 2 knots between the buffet boundary and the high speed buffet. This meant turning was nigh impossible. One way round the problem was to switch the autopilot rudder channel off and steer it with your feet, thus keeping the wings level!
The short tips on the K2 gave a span of 117'. The B2 (bomber) had medium tips giving 120' and that could reach FL630 once the underwings were dropped. But a clean SR2 (recce) with the long tips bolted on giving a span of 123' and no underwings could reach FL670! The SR2 with 543 Sqn did the secondary role before 27 took it over.
But at altitude, the K2 handled like a dog. At light weights, the engines could push you up to a height that there was only about 2 knots between the buffet boundary and the high speed buffet. This meant turning was nigh impossible. One way round the problem was to switch the autopilot rudder channel off and steer it with your feet, thus keeping the wings level!
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Re: Vulcan Limit
Originally Posted by BEagle
Plus several sets of golf bats in the recuperator bays....
'Mongo' once brought back a complete ride-on lawnmower back in a tin triangle - but declared it. That miserable b*gger 'Farquar the Revenue' (remember him, busta?) charged him car tax on it, as well as duty! Although he did later get it back when he explained that he was hardly likely to drive it up Lincoln High St.!
'Mongo' once brought back a complete ride-on lawnmower back in a tin triangle - but declared it. That miserable b*gger 'Farquar the Revenue' (remember him, busta?) charged him car tax on it, as well as duty! Although he did later get it back when he explained that he was hardly likely to drive it up Lincoln High St.!
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Re: Vulcan Limit
http://www.famousvulcans.co.uk/xh537.htm
'8th May 1978
Delivered to 27 Squadron as a Vulcan B2 MMR. The MMR role was to maintain a alert standard through out the North Sea, keeping an eye on the UK`s oil fields and acting as a early warning for any USSR ships entering our waters. As well as that 537 would pick up any distress signals from ships, something that the Nimrod does these days. 537 could also be fitted with air-sampling pods, a task inherited from Victor SR2s of No 543 Squadron.'
take a look
'8th May 1978
Delivered to 27 Squadron as a Vulcan B2 MMR. The MMR role was to maintain a alert standard through out the North Sea, keeping an eye on the UK`s oil fields and acting as a early warning for any USSR ships entering our waters. As well as that 537 would pick up any distress signals from ships, something that the Nimrod does these days. 537 could also be fitted with air-sampling pods, a task inherited from Victor SR2s of No 543 Squadron.'
take a look
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Aaah. Air sampling pods, were they. No wonder we could never get a firing solution.
And that's not the only thing 27 inherited from 543; many of the ancient aircrew also moved over. One paricular crew made up entirley of ex-543, with the exception of the co-pilot, who at the ripe age of 45 brought the average crew age down to about 53 (although at the time they looked more like 73). God bless the "Gindits".
And that's not the only thing 27 inherited from 543; many of the ancient aircrew also moved over. One paricular crew made up entirley of ex-543, with the exception of the co-pilot, who at the ripe age of 45 brought the average crew age down to about 53 (although at the time they looked more like 73). God bless the "Gindits".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Yellow Sun, my log book tells a different tale.
On 5 May 64 I was banged to 560 for 15 secs. The following year, just in case I had forgotten what fun it was AMTC did it again but to 520 for 15 seconds. And again the following Jul for good measure.
Th enext time I had the pleasure of practice dying was with the F4 regulator to 48k for a mere 3 seconds.
Buggers hadn't finished as they banged me from 25k to 45k for the Nimrod in 1975.
These were 'true' pressures and one presumes that this is the same pressure one would have experienced for real at, say 500, if the lid blew with aerodynamic suck.
Thinking about it, I think that aerodynamic suck was probably over played. If we had had to bail out we would have jumped before the lid was blown off. Possibly the open door might have created suck but the effect would have been of very short duration.
Similarly when the pilots blew the lid a double bang would follow soon after. The chances of the lid coming off? It never did and when the Victor crew tried it by accident it didn't come off dspite their best efforts.
HTN, I will have to think about low level bombing tonight - like counting sheep.
On 5 May 64 I was banged to 560 for 15 secs. The following year, just in case I had forgotten what fun it was AMTC did it again but to 520 for 15 seconds. And again the following Jul for good measure.
Th enext time I had the pleasure of practice dying was with the F4 regulator to 48k for a mere 3 seconds.
Buggers hadn't finished as they banged me from 25k to 45k for the Nimrod in 1975.
These were 'true' pressures and one presumes that this is the same pressure one would have experienced for real at, say 500, if the lid blew with aerodynamic suck.
Thinking about it, I think that aerodynamic suck was probably over played. If we had had to bail out we would have jumped before the lid was blown off. Possibly the open door might have created suck but the effect would have been of very short duration.
Similarly when the pilots blew the lid a double bang would follow soon after. The chances of the lid coming off? It never did and when the Victor crew tried it by accident it didn't come off dspite their best efforts.
HTN, I will have to think about low level bombing tonight - like counting sheep.
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'Scuse me HTB...I resemble that remark.
I was the Gindits co pilot and I wasn't 45 then!!!!
Bottle of Gordons and a six pack of tonic in my Navbag for the Captain when we shutdown on the first nightstop on a Ranger: sadly, no longer with us, but a wonderful guy, described by our Plotter as "A garrulous old b*st*rd at the best of times".
I was the Gindits co pilot and I wasn't 45 then!!!!
Bottle of Gordons and a six pack of tonic in my Navbag for the Captain when we shutdown on the first nightstop on a Ranger: sadly, no longer with us, but a wonderful guy, described by our Plotter as "A garrulous old b*st*rd at the best of times".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
HTB,
<<Re the Calc 3 and low level laydown, I vaguely remember having to wind the height down to -500ft. Whether this was to frig the ballistics or to "interface" with the Calc 5 to produce a radar picture which would otherwise consist of a a big empty hole in the middle I do not recall (which is probably why I spent more time on 27 than most!).>>
We did not use ballistic computation for the 2F or the 2J. We would calculate the FT and then fly the groundspeed to achieve the correct values. I think you are right about the height being set for the Calc 5. It was, I seem to remember, set on the CU585 for the Calc 5 as you surmised.
FT for the 950 was about 400 yards and for a 2J at 350k about 1.2 miles I seem to remember.
<<Re the Calc 3 and low level laydown, I vaguely remember having to wind the height down to -500ft. Whether this was to frig the ballistics or to "interface" with the Calc 5 to produce a radar picture which would otherwise consist of a a big empty hole in the middle I do not recall (which is probably why I spent more time on 27 than most!).>>
We did not use ballistic computation for the 2F or the 2J. We would calculate the FT and then fly the groundspeed to achieve the correct values. I think you are right about the height being set for the Calc 5. It was, I seem to remember, set on the CU585 for the Calc 5 as you surmised.
FT for the 950 was about 400 yards and for a 2J at 350k about 1.2 miles I seem to remember.
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TRSS
Depends which of the co-pilots you were! Do allow a bit of artistic licence (exaggeration) for effect. Bless him, the little nav plotter taught me the rudiments of golf on an isolated Pacific island where the major hazard was lage nesting/waddling albatross. Are you the one who went to work for BAe at Tabuk?
PN
I hope that helped in getting off to sleep - it worked for me on the OCU!
I'll dig out my logbooks at the weekend to see if I can provide some real info for the thread topic.
Depends which of the co-pilots you were! Do allow a bit of artistic licence (exaggeration) for effect. Bless him, the little nav plotter taught me the rudiments of golf on an isolated Pacific island where the major hazard was lage nesting/waddling albatross. Are you the one who went to work for BAe at Tabuk?
PN
I hope that helped in getting off to sleep - it worked for me on the OCU!
I'll dig out my logbooks at the weekend to see if I can provide some real info for the thread topic.
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HTB,
Tabuk??? Not me. I was JM's last co pilot until the Sqn disbanded.And the plotter's golf in the Pacific was legendary, after he clobbered the bird wit his tee shot!
Tabuk??? Not me. I was JM's last co pilot until the Sqn disbanded.And the plotter's golf in the Pacific was legendary, after he clobbered the bird wit his tee shot!
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B2 Bs
Originally Posted by Dan Winterland
The Victor K2 was limited to FL490 as well due to the Mk17 regulator. However, the K2 had short wingtips, uprigged ailerons to move the centre of pressure forward to preserve fatigue life and the AAR pods as well as the underwing tanks which were fixed on the tanker. This meant that 490 was pretty much it's max altitude although I flew one up to 520 and a bit once.
The short tips on the K2 gave a span of 117'. The B2 (bomber) had medium tips giving 120' and that could reach FL630 once the underwings were dropped. But a clean SR2 (recce) with the long tips bolted on giving a span of 123' and no underwings could reach FL670! The SR2 with 543 Sqn did the secondary role before 27 took it over.
But at altitude, the K2 handled like a dog. At light weights, the engines could push you up to a height that there was only about 2 knots between the buffet boundary and the high speed buffet. This meant turning was nigh impossible. One way round the problem was to switch the autopilot rudder channel off and steer it with your feet, thus keeping the wings level!
The short tips on the K2 gave a span of 117'. The B2 (bomber) had medium tips giving 120' and that could reach FL630 once the underwings were dropped. But a clean SR2 (recce) with the long tips bolted on giving a span of 123' and no underwings could reach FL670! The SR2 with 543 Sqn did the secondary role before 27 took it over.
But at altitude, the K2 handled like a dog. At light weights, the engines could push you up to a height that there was only about 2 knots between the buffet boundary and the high speed buffet. This meant turning was nigh impossible. One way round the problem was to switch the autopilot rudder channel off and steer it with your feet, thus keeping the wings level!
A clean Bmk2 (BS) could go there too. Any tales?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
This next bit is really sad.
Setting up for a normal, high level, computed bomb run would require the nav rad to do a radar height finding. The scanner would be tilted down and the radar/nbc height switch on the CU585 set to radar. The aircraft would be flown at a steady height over a level surface. If this was a plain the terrain height would be put on the CU585 target height dial.
The radar height would then be adjusted until first flicker on the neon. The radar/nbc switch would be put back to nbc. The calc 3 height would be checked against the radar height and used if it was correct. It was fed from the pressure system and was corrected for pressure by setting a D-factor.
This height was then used to feed the calc 3 ballistics and also the calc 5 height carriage for the triangle solver to get the range marker to mesure plan range.
If the calc 3 was u/s the radar/nbc switch would be set to radar and the height voltage would be sent to rotate the calc 5 y-axis shaft and set the correct height.
At low level, below 7,200 feet the calc 3 would not calculate the correct ballistics but the difference between plan and slant range was insignificant. I think I am correct in saying that we left the switch on nbc and, as I said earlier, used a calcuated g/s and height for achieve the correct release point.
Nerdish? Sorry about that.
Setting up for a normal, high level, computed bomb run would require the nav rad to do a radar height finding. The scanner would be tilted down and the radar/nbc height switch on the CU585 set to radar. The aircraft would be flown at a steady height over a level surface. If this was a plain the terrain height would be put on the CU585 target height dial.
The radar height would then be adjusted until first flicker on the neon. The radar/nbc switch would be put back to nbc. The calc 3 height would be checked against the radar height and used if it was correct. It was fed from the pressure system and was corrected for pressure by setting a D-factor.
This height was then used to feed the calc 3 ballistics and also the calc 5 height carriage for the triangle solver to get the range marker to mesure plan range.
If the calc 3 was u/s the radar/nbc switch would be set to radar and the height voltage would be sent to rotate the calc 5 y-axis shaft and set the correct height.
At low level, below 7,200 feet the calc 3 would not calculate the correct ballistics but the difference between plan and slant range was insignificant. I think I am correct in saying that we left the switch on nbc and, as I said earlier, used a calcuated g/s and height for achieve the correct release point.
Nerdish? Sorry about that.