Why are people leaving in droves ?
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This all sounds familiar in my job - The Police service. Moral rock bottom, no experienced officers or supervisors in the front line and bloody civvies with not a single idea about the work we do attempting to manage/tick boxes/count stats/check our work.
I am a sergeant looking after a shift of uniform officers covering a town with a population of in excess of 130000 good people. At 1000pm yesterday I briefed a grand total of four officers that were the night shift for that town. A year ago it would have been up to 14 officers. I just keep my fingers crossed that tonight we do not have a bar-b-q at a fuel depot!
The plus side is that with such few officers it makes annual appraisals very easy!
I am a sergeant looking after a shift of uniform officers covering a town with a population of in excess of 130000 good people. At 1000pm yesterday I briefed a grand total of four officers that were the night shift for that town. A year ago it would have been up to 14 officers. I just keep my fingers crossed that tonight we do not have a bar-b-q at a fuel depot!
The plus side is that with such few officers it makes annual appraisals very easy!
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What desperately sad reading. Given, the number of people responding is but a drop in the ocean, and we are always far better at moaning than praising, but surely there must be someone out there who believes that the positives of Service life outweigh the negatives? Please someone, restore my faith in the Military.
So, I joined in the early 60's, and essentially enjoyed the next 19 years, and was fortunate to spend time as a "mercenery" in SOAF, and got back in the bang seat as a civvie for a few years after that.
Times change and it's easy for old gits like me to say that yesterday was better. I don't buy that.... it was different thats all.
If what has been written so far is a fair synopsis then I'm not surprised that many are leaving. However I do believe that todays youngsters, and that includes their senior officers, are made of sterner stuff than has been portrayed so far.I do not want to accept that they are all throwing in their towells to the incompetant civvie administators, civil servants and pathetic politicians who haunt MoD and Westminster.
So, I joined in the early 60's, and essentially enjoyed the next 19 years, and was fortunate to spend time as a "mercenery" in SOAF, and got back in the bang seat as a civvie for a few years after that.
Times change and it's easy for old gits like me to say that yesterday was better. I don't buy that.... it was different thats all.
If what has been written so far is a fair synopsis then I'm not surprised that many are leaving. However I do believe that todays youngsters, and that includes their senior officers, are made of sterner stuff than has been portrayed so far.I do not want to accept that they are all throwing in their towells to the incompetant civvie administators, civil servants and pathetic politicians who haunt MoD and Westminster.
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Roghead,
Sadly, I fear you joined when things really were better. That said, youngsters joining today will not know any different so, one assumes they will be happier with their lot.......hence the droves leaving at a later stage. Only my thoughts though. I too, would love to see if anyone was 'loving it'.
Sadly, I fear you joined when things really were better. That said, youngsters joining today will not know any different so, one assumes they will be happier with their lot.......hence the droves leaving at a later stage. Only my thoughts though. I too, would love to see if anyone was 'loving it'.
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Have to say I saw the writing on the wall back in the late 70s when the retention rate was awful - problem was that all the good guys were leaving and all the bad guys were getting promoted. Problem seems to be repeated today - quite possibly because all the dross that got promoted in the late 70s reached the top of the pile and, in turn, promoted people in their own image.
So how do you change it - certainly not by leaving. It probably takes more balls to stay and work on the problem than to leave it but how many people can do that?
So how do you change it - certainly not by leaving. It probably takes more balls to stay and work on the problem than to leave it but how many people can do that?
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soddim
You're right - few people have the balls to stay just to try and make a difference. However, I'm told that if you do stick your head above the parapet these days, you just get poo-pooed by someone more senior.
The temptation is then really strong to try and poo-poo their poo-poo - and we all know where that leads!
You're right - few people have the balls to stay just to try and make a difference. However, I'm told that if you do stick your head above the parapet these days, you just get poo-pooed by someone more senior.
The temptation is then really strong to try and poo-poo their poo-poo - and we all know where that leads!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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As I have said many times before, I left 2 years ago because I didn't trust TrustmeTony with my life. That said, I remember in the 80s, everyone used to say that we can't sustain things and it was all about to go wrong, it didn't. In the 90s, everyone used to say that we can't sustain things and it was all about to go wrong, it didn't. Now people are saying that we can't sustain things and it is all about to go wrong......
The military will survive, it has been like this for centuries, with people coming second to the task. You will leave, you will think that it will be difficult to replace you. But they will do it and a new man will start basic training to be on the bottom rung, moving everyone else up one rung.
Fortunately, you people now, along with us old fogies will give outstanding loyalty and get the job done. We are our own worst enemies. But I bet that very few of you would let things go wrong on purpose, that is why you are there, because of that attitude, professionalism and grit. Make the most of NOW because you will miss it when you leave. Well, at least a little bit!!
The military will survive, it has been like this for centuries, with people coming second to the task. You will leave, you will think that it will be difficult to replace you. But they will do it and a new man will start basic training to be on the bottom rung, moving everyone else up one rung.
Fortunately, you people now, along with us old fogies will give outstanding loyalty and get the job done. We are our own worst enemies. But I bet that very few of you would let things go wrong on purpose, that is why you are there, because of that attitude, professionalism and grit. Make the most of NOW because you will miss it when you leave. Well, at least a little bit!!
Tut tut.
You miserable bunch.
Am I really going to be the only person to say I'm enjoying it?!
Maybe I'm just one of the lucky few but, despite a few minor grumbles (with admin issues ie housing being the main one - but thats my problem!) I couldn't be happier.
Of course we all whinge from time to time but I'm more than happy with my lot. Of course the flying helps!
BV
Am I really going to be the only person to say I'm enjoying it?!
Maybe I'm just one of the lucky few but, despite a few minor grumbles (with admin issues ie housing being the main one - but thats my problem!) I couldn't be happier.
Of course we all whinge from time to time but I'm more than happy with my lot. Of course the flying helps!
BV
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Swinging Monkey,
Just logged in... although I agree with your ethic, it really isn't the fault of the docs and the gym boys. In my experience, they work bloody hard to keep us where we want to be, within their remit.
I've never had a problem with bloody great doctors and support staff in my career - that's not the reason I'll be out at 38.
It's that there is absolutely no-one I want to be in 10yrs time.
And that is terribly sad.
Just logged in... although I agree with your ethic, it really isn't the fault of the docs and the gym boys. In my experience, they work bloody hard to keep us where we want to be, within their remit.
I've never had a problem with bloody great doctors and support staff in my career - that's not the reason I'll be out at 38.
It's that there is absolutely no-one I want to be in 10yrs time.
And that is terribly sad.
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"It's that there is absolutely no-one I want to be in 10yrs time."
What a cracking anology
After 31 years service I can happily look my self in the mirror each morning safe in the knowledge I have never once screwed any one over, how many of our current middle and senior management have the same luxury
all spelling mistakes are "df' alcohol induced
What a cracking anology
After 31 years service I can happily look my self in the mirror each morning safe in the knowledge I have never once screwed any one over, how many of our current middle and senior management have the same luxury
all spelling mistakes are "df' alcohol induced
Join Date: Nov 2005
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shy torque
ok, I said nine hours....the point is some days 7 hours , some days 15....additionally secondary duties, station duties, standby hours..blah blah....I've had one free weekend in five.
thepoint I was making is that too few of us to go around AND still do the jobs (if not more) that we were doing a few years back.
I'm not whinging though
thepoint I was making is that too few of us to go around AND still do the jobs (if not more) that we were doing a few years back.
I'm not whinging though
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Only once in nearly 40 years of service did I witness handbrake house get the jitters. At a base in Lincolnshire, where the Sqns had continuous op detachments overseas, claims were taking 6 weeks to process to completion. When it got to 8 weeks the troops started to grumble and the Sqn bosses brought it up at execs.
OC Admin went totally defensive [he was a knobber anyway] and made all the excuses under the sun - finally coming up with 'there are only so many hours in the day and so many hands per person'.
The Staish was a good guy and totally focused on the raison d'etre for the existance if the base - he announced that handbrake house would work weekends from now on until the backlog was cleared and claims were to be processed within a week. It took them 4 weekends to catch up, after which claims were paid within 5 working days.
But people like that are so few and far between these days - career officers seem to be totally focused on their own careers to bother much about what is going on around them...
OC Admin went totally defensive [he was a knobber anyway] and made all the excuses under the sun - finally coming up with 'there are only so many hours in the day and so many hands per person'.
The Staish was a good guy and totally focused on the raison d'etre for the existance if the base - he announced that handbrake house would work weekends from now on until the backlog was cleared and claims were to be processed within a week. It took them 4 weekends to catch up, after which claims were paid within 5 working days.
But people like that are so few and far between these days - career officers seem to be totally focused on their own careers to bother much about what is going on around them...
I think it was at RAF Brawdy (or it might have been the re-opened RAF Chivenor) where the admin mates, knowing how busy we were during the day, used to send a chap round to the flying squadrons to sort out travel claims. Which were settled in around 24 hours......in cash, not just BACS.
Bluntness is a mindset, not a branch!
Sometimes it's not the admin folks fault, but some faceless bureaucrat. There was a chaotic period once when mileage rates were amended retrospectively; the acker-bashers had to go back several months, check every claim and issue additional payments. It was evening and weekend working until they caught up....
Brawdy, Chivenor - them were 't days. Sorry, but they really were!
Bluntness is a mindset, not a branch!
Sometimes it's not the admin folks fault, but some faceless bureaucrat. There was a chaotic period once when mileage rates were amended retrospectively; the acker-bashers had to go back several months, check every claim and issue additional payments. It was evening and weekend working until they caught up....
Brawdy, Chivenor - them were 't days. Sorry, but they really were!
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Perhaps another reason people enjoyed life in the mob more back in the day, was because there was a real threat to the UK and we were all happy to be involved to do our part. Minor buggerances could be happily overlooked safe in the knowledge that you were doing your bit to protect our green and pleasant land. Fast forward 20+ years and the same reasoning falls apart as we're now part of 'Team UK - World Police'.
And who coined the daft term 'agile air force'?
I joined to defend the UK - and if that meant threatening Ivan with a bucket of sun if he ever got uppity, then so be it.
But tramping round the world every time the poodle licks the chimp's bottom - I don't think so.....
On another thread, someone posted "Even more scary is that out of the 160 odd countries in the world the USA has a military presence in 142.
Any clues to the Spam-free zones?
I joined to defend the UK - and if that meant threatening Ivan with a bucket of sun if he ever got uppity, then so be it.
But tramping round the world every time the poodle licks the chimp's bottom - I don't think so.....
On another thread, someone posted "Even more scary is that out of the 160 odd countries in the world the USA has a military presence in 142.
Any clues to the Spam-free zones?
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Well, if you cant handle the pressure of all the deployments, the exciting flying, the chance to actually do your job then join the Australian Army Aviation Corps....
You'll go nowhere, fly the same old boring ****e day after day, deal with idiots who think they know about war (but have never been anywhere beyond the local training area) and work with aircraft that are so old and useless it would make our forefathers turn in their graves.
My point - consider yourselfs lucky your actually in a military that does its job.
Trooping.
You'll go nowhere, fly the same old boring ****e day after day, deal with idiots who think they know about war (but have never been anywhere beyond the local training area) and work with aircraft that are so old and useless it would make our forefathers turn in their graves.
My point - consider yourselfs lucky your actually in a military that does its job.
Trooping.
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A case like that would be more indicative of the cutbacks in the Armed Forces affecting ability to carry out primary duties rather than the inconvenience of having to do an AFT.
I remember in the 80s, everyone used to say that we can't sustain things and it was all about to go wrong, it didn't. In the 90s, everyone used to say that we can't sustain things and it was all about to go wrong, it didn't
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Rant on
Because having worked my bits off all week, I get back to a freezing cold FQ to find a pay statement that some @rsehole has screwed-up leaving me £250 worse-off than I should be - to make matters worse, the whole thing is unintelligible. Can't fault the timing!
Now I will be working throughout Xmas, as I have for the last several years, and I know that when I go into PSF on Monday, if there's anyone there at all, the best I can hope for is platitudes, because it is bound to be too late to do anything about it ... w@nkers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This post is alcohol free ... good job!
Rant off
Because having worked my bits off all week, I get back to a freezing cold FQ to find a pay statement that some @rsehole has screwed-up leaving me £250 worse-off than I should be - to make matters worse, the whole thing is unintelligible. Can't fault the timing!
Now I will be working throughout Xmas, as I have for the last several years, and I know that when I go into PSF on Monday, if there's anyone there at all, the best I can hope for is platitudes, because it is bound to be too late to do anything about it ... w@nkers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This post is alcohol free ... good job!
Rant off
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Today I have just paid the RAF £10 for the privelige of using an empty sim slot to raise money for Children in Need.
When the Chief Beancounter told me that I would have to pay for the use of the sim, I laughed at first, but when I realised she was serious, I was dumbstruck that the RAF would "steal" a tenner from charity.
I hope she reads this and is thoroughly ashamed of herself.
Another great reason why 13 Jan 06 can't come soon enough.
P.S. BA not PA, you know it makes sense!!
When the Chief Beancounter told me that I would have to pay for the use of the sim, I laughed at first, but when I realised she was serious, I was dumbstruck that the RAF would "steal" a tenner from charity.
I hope she reads this and is thoroughly ashamed of herself.
Another great reason why 13 Jan 06 can't come soon enough.
P.S. BA not PA, you know it makes sense!!