Why are people leaving in droves ?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Muscat, Oman
Posts: 604
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the points of IOT is to instill uniform discipline. If the "poof" was the only one wearing gloves, he should get rid of them. And if he can't take a little name calling in this mad PC world, how is he going to cope with his first scathing debrief or in combat when his wingman gets shot down. A bit of resilience wouldn't go amiss. The whole world has gone mad in thinking that every civilian rule should apply to the military!
Rant over!
Meanwhile, back at the topic..... I'm staying because I'm still enjoying myself. But I've managed to get out of the mainstream RAF into a weird backwater that gives me loads of job satisfaction in exchange for zero career enhancement, and I am happy with that. I have also noticed that a few "good guys" are starting to get into the star ranks. Maybe there is hope for the future?
Rant over!
Meanwhile, back at the topic..... I'm staying because I'm still enjoying myself. But I've managed to get out of the mainstream RAF into a weird backwater that gives me loads of job satisfaction in exchange for zero career enhancement, and I am happy with that. I have also noticed that a few "good guys" are starting to get into the star ranks. Maybe there is hope for the future?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In The Dog House
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I left the RAF about 4 years ago. The greatest changes to my life other than the pay rise and increase in flying are that my working routine is predictable. I no longer return from a 6-8 week det to find my life screwed up by some unnamed irriot on a computerised wailing wall. The fact that the military does not subscribe to any working hours directive should not give the managers free license to own every hour of every day. Anyone who says that you are paid 24 hours a day 365 days a year is just a poor manager who cannot manage people and is too scared to give people time off. Another factor is possibly that anyone who joined before the early ninetys would have expected to defend the uk from the cold war threat, which actually gave a fairly stable routine, i.e. Germany, Uk and back again. Now we seem to be risking our lives on behalf of some people we didn't know about in some place we couldn't place on a map. Apart from the Falklands all these ' conflicts' have taken place in the past 15 years and have taken their toll.
I would like to say that I did enjoy my 12 in the Air Force and the greatest asset is the excellent people, but i only have one chance to see my kids grow up and it wasn't going to happen on permanent det with no time off in blighty.
I would like to say that I did enjoy my 12 in the Air Force and the greatest asset is the excellent people, but i only have one chance to see my kids grow up and it wasn't going to happen on permanent det with no time off in blighty.
Decimation of the medical services - what IDIOT agreed to keeping that centrally located hospital at Haslar?
The main point about Haslar is, that when it was a proper RN Hospital, it was probably the cleanest, most efficient and best run hospital on the whole south coast. The breakup of the medical services was a disgrace and the subsequent attempts to rebuild what was decimated are only now starting to have effect.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Hook, Hants
Age: 68
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A101
I concur with your thoughts vis-a-vis the mil changing attitudes but;
if you think that the majority of civvy aviators that drink too much get caught and locked up I suspect you may be a little wide of the mark? all a bit stones and greenhouses!
I concur with your thoughts vis-a-vis the mil changing attitudes but;
if you think that the majority of civvy aviators that drink too much get caught and locked up I suspect you may be a little wide of the mark? all a bit stones and greenhouses!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its exactly that mentality of Talking Radalt that undermines everything the military stands for now
My mentality (and yeah, I am pretty mental at times) is such that I feel we have now reached a point where complaints are upheld and listened to not because they have any actual substance, but simply because someone has complained, about someone else, doing something, some time, some where and thus something has to be seen to be done.
My underlying point with the "oh dear oh dear oh dear" comment is this: There are far, far greater things to worry about in life than what others call you, what they think of you or how they address you. Really, there are.
If being called a poof, or any other name under the sun, is enough to cause offence, how about some nasty A-rabs lobbing mortars at you? That fecking well upset me quite a bit, but hey ho, mustn't grumble. After all, I first need to remind the boss to refrain from calling any of us "knob/cock/****" next time we screw up, eh?
In fact, could we just clarify, what is it people take offence at? Being called nasty names, being called nasty names with a sexual overtone or just being told off at all?
In many, many cases nowadays I suspect it's the latter.
I'm NOT saying a re-think of the PC thing is carte blanche for instructors to do their worst, similarly with the beasting thing, but I really do feel the whole trend has now gained more momentum than is truly productive and beneficial, and due to that same momentum, no one dare quetion it.
Rant off. And relax. Nearly Christmas.
Last edited by Talking Radalt; 22nd Dec 2005 at 19:20.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Home
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Massive cutbacks, good people leave, idiots promoted, good people leave due to bad bosses, therefore due to lack of personnel - idiots are promoted. Classis vicious circle.
Been in two years - its a bit amateurish. But better than outside?
I meant \'classic\' vicious circle.
Been in two years - its a bit amateurish. But better than outside?
I meant \'classic\' vicious circle.
I originally posted this a good few months ago to a question whether the Air Farce was going to hell in a hand cart. Thought it seemed fairly apt to re-post it here as a) it's Christmas - the season for repeats; b) I think it probably still sums up why people are rightly leaving in droves ......and why, despite the potential for a huge pot of cash for another 8 years of selling my sole, I'm tempted to say sod it.
"Hmmmm an interesting issue that unfortunately raises more questions than I'm sure anybody has answers for. But my first point would be
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't every generation of serviceman think the RAF/Army/Navy etc is going to hell in a handcart?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes CG, I think you're right about that - and it's not just confined to the Armed Forces. However, in this case, I do think that ForwardAssist has a very valid point - we are going to hell in a handcart. Actually I think we're almost there - it's the next exit just after Bliar-town and Buffoon-ville.
Whilst not exactly an old timer, I have been in for 7 years and the drop in everything connected with the military - other than our output has been quicker than a slapper's drawers on a Friday night in Peterhead (not that I have any experience of that point).
1. We can no longer do anything that costs more than we can scrape together from the loose change down the back of the sofa.
2. Any form of fun that 20 years ago would have been described as building team spirit or morale is instantly spread over pages 1-12 of those items that can only be described as 'newspapers' in the loosest sense of the word (even my dog now objects to the Mirror and Sun in his dog basket), having mortally offended some 57 year old do-gooder called Norman from Little Snoring on the Wold.
3. We have a morally bankrupt government that doesn't give a damn about the armed forces, even though we are used in all sorts of roles from steely-eyed dealers of death (what we're supposed to do), to firemen, nannies, politically correct adverts for HMG's questionable 'inclusivity' policies and instruments of Tony's attempt to get the Nobel Prize for hypocracy (what we're not supposed to do).
4. We have a procurement system that leaves me gasping for breath and incandescent with rage at it's sheer general uselessness and incompetence coupled, which is often coupled with point 3 and HMG's moral vacuum that refuses to get rid of organisations that can't provide the goods because it might cost a few votes here and there. The end result being that we go off on ops without the kit we are supposed to have or if we are lucky with defective kit - albeit not enough of it.
5. We have a bunch of airships that by and large appear to be weaker than a soggy kit-kat, who are unwilling to stand up to the politicians and defend the interests of the service and the people underneath them; just because it might get them the sack or they won't get their next stripe or their 'K'. Where are the Dowdings of today who are prepared to stand up and tell the politicians no, this can't be done and trying to force it through will end in disaster. Well I've had a good hard look, and as far as I can see, the last one was the Navy-chappy Boyce who was CDS a few years back who was asked to leave early becuase he stood up for what he believed in. Back bone???? Not something the current lot appear to have heard much about - or that's the way it appears from my end of the trench.
6. We have got to the point that the RAF has been contracted out so much, that we are losing the can-do spirit to be replaced by can-do, as long as it isn't between 1000-1030, 1500-1530 or after 1615 (1530 on Fridays); won't stop me going on leave even though there is a war on; I can still get my round of golf in every Tuesday afternoon and nobody writes anything nasty about my being an oxygen thief on my annual civil service report. Civilianizing has meant that so much of our service ethos has gone for good that if we ever tried to get it back, we'd fail dismally only finding it dead under a pile of red tape, petty bureacracy and cost cutting measures.
And to my mind, this list of woe has it's roots in one place and one place only - the concept of treating the Armed Forces like it is a business. Whilst I'm all for financial responsibility, we have gone way too far and given the accountants and management consultants way too much sway. The really annoying thing is, we pay millions each year to employ these people and the end result of their £5.3M cost saving study is that they tell us we can't afford to pay their fees, so we'll just have to axe another hospital/ship/sqn/regiment This all stems from having things (I won't use the term leaders ) that have never served and cannot see the damage they have done to the forces by treating them like a business.
We do not operate in a world of profit and loss, instead our books balance when the same number of aircraft/tanks/people come home from a deployment that went out, having been successful in their mission. Defence is inherently expensive but it's output is often intangible - what do the politicians have to show for pumping billions our way each year. We would probably all point out that sleeping safe in your beds and watching your kids grow up happy and safe are probably tangible enough benefits of what we do, but that isn't enough for the politicians. They want that and they want everything else that goes with trying to buy the electorate - yes we have noticed Mr Bliar, and no we're not stupid.
So how do you fix it? Well I have to say that right now, we're bollocksed. I don't think we can fix it for the current generation. It has been said that we need to fail, to show them that we can't do everything with nothing, and then hopefully we'll get some cash. Whilst I see the logic, my personal pride will not allow me to that - not if there is a chance that I can do what I need to do successfully, no matter how meager the resources given to me to do it. Of course if I fail unintentionally, then that's a different matter. I think we need to make people realise that we are not a business and that you can't measure what we do in terms of profit and loss, and the sooner the airships (and tankships and ermm shipships??) force this point through so much the better. When they succeed there, we might get the accountants off our backs, which might ease the pressure a little to stop doing everything with nothing until you disappear in an ever decreasing circle up your own arse. I also think that part of the job specs for PM/ SoS Def should have been a spell in the forces, including time on ops, so they do actually appreciate what we are about and what the impact of slowly bleeding us to death is.
Alternatively, we call their bluffs - issue shares in the RAF and then sack the board of directors!!!!!!"
Merry Christmas to one and all ..... oh bu
er, Christmas has been cancelled hasn't it!
Happy non-religious, ethno-friendly sectarian neutral winter festival
"Hmmmm an interesting issue that unfortunately raises more questions than I'm sure anybody has answers for. But my first point would be
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't every generation of serviceman think the RAF/Army/Navy etc is going to hell in a handcart?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes CG, I think you're right about that - and it's not just confined to the Armed Forces. However, in this case, I do think that ForwardAssist has a very valid point - we are going to hell in a handcart. Actually I think we're almost there - it's the next exit just after Bliar-town and Buffoon-ville.
Whilst not exactly an old timer, I have been in for 7 years and the drop in everything connected with the military - other than our output has been quicker than a slapper's drawers on a Friday night in Peterhead (not that I have any experience of that point).
1. We can no longer do anything that costs more than we can scrape together from the loose change down the back of the sofa.
2. Any form of fun that 20 years ago would have been described as building team spirit or morale is instantly spread over pages 1-12 of those items that can only be described as 'newspapers' in the loosest sense of the word (even my dog now objects to the Mirror and Sun in his dog basket), having mortally offended some 57 year old do-gooder called Norman from Little Snoring on the Wold.
3. We have a morally bankrupt government that doesn't give a damn about the armed forces, even though we are used in all sorts of roles from steely-eyed dealers of death (what we're supposed to do), to firemen, nannies, politically correct adverts for HMG's questionable 'inclusivity' policies and instruments of Tony's attempt to get the Nobel Prize for hypocracy (what we're not supposed to do).
4. We have a procurement system that leaves me gasping for breath and incandescent with rage at it's sheer general uselessness and incompetence coupled, which is often coupled with point 3 and HMG's moral vacuum that refuses to get rid of organisations that can't provide the goods because it might cost a few votes here and there. The end result being that we go off on ops without the kit we are supposed to have or if we are lucky with defective kit - albeit not enough of it.
5. We have a bunch of airships that by and large appear to be weaker than a soggy kit-kat, who are unwilling to stand up to the politicians and defend the interests of the service and the people underneath them; just because it might get them the sack or they won't get their next stripe or their 'K'. Where are the Dowdings of today who are prepared to stand up and tell the politicians no, this can't be done and trying to force it through will end in disaster. Well I've had a good hard look, and as far as I can see, the last one was the Navy-chappy Boyce who was CDS a few years back who was asked to leave early becuase he stood up for what he believed in. Back bone???? Not something the current lot appear to have heard much about - or that's the way it appears from my end of the trench.
6. We have got to the point that the RAF has been contracted out so much, that we are losing the can-do spirit to be replaced by can-do, as long as it isn't between 1000-1030, 1500-1530 or after 1615 (1530 on Fridays); won't stop me going on leave even though there is a war on; I can still get my round of golf in every Tuesday afternoon and nobody writes anything nasty about my being an oxygen thief on my annual civil service report. Civilianizing has meant that so much of our service ethos has gone for good that if we ever tried to get it back, we'd fail dismally only finding it dead under a pile of red tape, petty bureacracy and cost cutting measures.
And to my mind, this list of woe has it's roots in one place and one place only - the concept of treating the Armed Forces like it is a business. Whilst I'm all for financial responsibility, we have gone way too far and given the accountants and management consultants way too much sway. The really annoying thing is, we pay millions each year to employ these people and the end result of their £5.3M cost saving study is that they tell us we can't afford to pay their fees, so we'll just have to axe another hospital/ship/sqn/regiment This all stems from having things (I won't use the term leaders ) that have never served and cannot see the damage they have done to the forces by treating them like a business.
We do not operate in a world of profit and loss, instead our books balance when the same number of aircraft/tanks/people come home from a deployment that went out, having been successful in their mission. Defence is inherently expensive but it's output is often intangible - what do the politicians have to show for pumping billions our way each year. We would probably all point out that sleeping safe in your beds and watching your kids grow up happy and safe are probably tangible enough benefits of what we do, but that isn't enough for the politicians. They want that and they want everything else that goes with trying to buy the electorate - yes we have noticed Mr Bliar, and no we're not stupid.
So how do you fix it? Well I have to say that right now, we're bollocksed. I don't think we can fix it for the current generation. It has been said that we need to fail, to show them that we can't do everything with nothing, and then hopefully we'll get some cash. Whilst I see the logic, my personal pride will not allow me to that - not if there is a chance that I can do what I need to do successfully, no matter how meager the resources given to me to do it. Of course if I fail unintentionally, then that's a different matter. I think we need to make people realise that we are not a business and that you can't measure what we do in terms of profit and loss, and the sooner the airships (and tankships and ermm shipships??) force this point through so much the better. When they succeed there, we might get the accountants off our backs, which might ease the pressure a little to stop doing everything with nothing until you disappear in an ever decreasing circle up your own arse. I also think that part of the job specs for PM/ SoS Def should have been a spell in the forces, including time on ops, so they do actually appreciate what we are about and what the impact of slowly bleeding us to death is.
Alternatively, we call their bluffs - issue shares in the RAF and then sack the board of directors!!!!!!"
Merry Christmas to one and all ..... oh bu
er, Christmas has been cancelled hasn't it!Happy non-religious, ethno-friendly sectarian neutral winter festival
Good post
How many times have you heard the phrase 'We need different leaders in peacetime to those we need in war time' ? What the **** is all that about?
We are victims of our own success. What makes us, IMHO, amongst the best in the world is our ability to improvise. By doing that we demonstrtae that we can do more with less. It is a vicious circle. The police, on the other hand, can just say no when they are told to merge forces, the useless Civil Servants can run to their Union, the Firemen can go on strike when their second jobs are threatened. We just get on with it, and usually in harms way.
I would not change it because I consider myself a professional, but it makes Loyalty and Commitment harder to deliver day by day. As can be seen by some of the posts on this thread, the goodwill is being stretched to rediculous lengths and I am not sure how long we can/will continue to be able to deliver.
How many times have you heard the phrase 'We need different leaders in peacetime to those we need in war time' ? What the **** is all that about?
We are victims of our own success. What makes us, IMHO, amongst the best in the world is our ability to improvise. By doing that we demonstrtae that we can do more with less. It is a vicious circle. The police, on the other hand, can just say no when they are told to merge forces, the useless Civil Servants can run to their Union, the Firemen can go on strike when their second jobs are threatened. We just get on with it, and usually in harms way.
I would not change it because I consider myself a professional, but it makes Loyalty and Commitment harder to deliver day by day. As can be seen by some of the posts on this thread, the goodwill is being stretched to rediculous lengths and I am not sure how long we can/will continue to be able to deliver.
TAC Int Bloke
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the useless Civil Servants can run to their Union
sweeping generalisations aside if you work for the government there's always a catch.....
AT
That just goes to show how times have changed and not necessarily for the better. When I was a yoof the term a p**f had little to do with sexuality more to do with someone who was not as manly as that that was perceived to be correct where I grew up. Someone who played p**fball not rugby, someone who didn't like climbing trees, making tarzan swings over the river or generally acting the fool when growing up.
I would just like to point out that this topic is about why people are leaving in droves and PC bo**ocks like this is an example. If you take offence at the term being used to represent your sexuality then tough, I for one do not care.
And finally just to show how incorrect and PC you are Ben Dover was a Hercules pilot and a QFI - it was his name (obviously his parents had a sense of humour). Are you suggesting he should change it because of your PC sensibilities? Get real!
Widger
Fair point on the hospital but the majority of the Army are based around Germany, Salisbury, Catterick, Colchester, NI and various bases in Scotland. None of which are located for easy travel to Haslar. The vast majority of RAF personnel are based in 4 locations, Lossie/Kinloss/Leuchars - very difficult journey to Haslar, Yorkshire/Lincolnshire - a bit easier to get to Haslar but still not "easy", East Anglia - easier but still not easy. And Oxon/Wilts - again not an easy journey. Now I did not mention any specific hospital location as a better one than Haslar but lets start with London - easy rail and air links from all points of the UK. Aldershot or Peterborough - good rail links. Halton (possibly) or Wroughton - easy road and rail links. So not A1 centric just somewhere that is easier to travel to for the majority. However that brings me back to my main point - all 3 services should have medical establishments that meet their needs, not some purple establishment that doesn't.
Sorry, it's Christmas, rant off.
That just goes to show how times have changed and not necessarily for the better. When I was a yoof the term a p**f had little to do with sexuality more to do with someone who was not as manly as that that was perceived to be correct where I grew up. Someone who played p**fball not rugby, someone who didn't like climbing trees, making tarzan swings over the river or generally acting the fool when growing up.
I would just like to point out that this topic is about why people are leaving in droves and PC bo**ocks like this is an example. If you take offence at the term being used to represent your sexuality then tough, I for one do not care.
And finally just to show how incorrect and PC you are Ben Dover was a Hercules pilot and a QFI - it was his name (obviously his parents had a sense of humour). Are you suggesting he should change it because of your PC sensibilities? Get real!
Widger
Fair point on the hospital but the majority of the Army are based around Germany, Salisbury, Catterick, Colchester, NI and various bases in Scotland. None of which are located for easy travel to Haslar. The vast majority of RAF personnel are based in 4 locations, Lossie/Kinloss/Leuchars - very difficult journey to Haslar, Yorkshire/Lincolnshire - a bit easier to get to Haslar but still not "easy", East Anglia - easier but still not easy. And Oxon/Wilts - again not an easy journey. Now I did not mention any specific hospital location as a better one than Haslar but lets start with London - easy rail and air links from all points of the UK. Aldershot or Peterborough - good rail links. Halton (possibly) or Wroughton - easy road and rail links. So not A1 centric just somewhere that is easier to travel to for the majority. However that brings me back to my main point - all 3 services should have medical establishments that meet their needs, not some purple establishment that doesn't.
Sorry, it's Christmas, rant off.
Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 23rd Dec 2005 at 16:38.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roland
I think you'll find the word poof has always meant a gay man. The adjective poofy was applied by extension, as it was believed that there was something cissy about all gay chaps. One assumes the (apocryphal) 'Only 18 Stone Black Man to have ridden a Derby Winner' (Lester Piggot's cellmate) would not be described as cissy.
I apologise, I never met Ben Dover so never knew it was his real name. Was privileged to know Rick Head, though! Although I am young enough to appreciate that what we put up with is not acceptable to the younger generation; I am not old enough to have met Wg Cdr Robert Sole (Berlin 1970s). Congratulations on being the first person ever to call me PC. Someone called me cool on this forum a while ago - I suppose I should be thankful it wasn't kewl! Those who know me will be having a quiet titter, I imagine.
I think you'll find the word poof has always meant a gay man. The adjective poofy was applied by extension, as it was believed that there was something cissy about all gay chaps. One assumes the (apocryphal) 'Only 18 Stone Black Man to have ridden a Derby Winner' (Lester Piggot's cellmate) would not be described as cissy.
I apologise, I never met Ben Dover so never knew it was his real name. Was privileged to know Rick Head, though! Although I am young enough to appreciate that what we put up with is not acceptable to the younger generation; I am not old enough to have met Wg Cdr Robert Sole (Berlin 1970s). Congratulations on being the first person ever to call me PC. Someone called me cool on this forum a while ago - I suppose I should be thankful it wasn't kewl! Those who know me will be having a quiet titter, I imagine.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the useless Civil Servants can run to their Union
Or indeed Servicemen and women running to their union. As a member of a large and unsympathetic union, I can asure you that running to thre union doesn't always prove fruitful.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lincs
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VVHC, I've re-read your post several times trying to understand your meaning. You don't seriously believe that we have a union, do you?
SBG
SBG
Last edited by Spotting Bad Guys; 24th Dec 2005 at 16:57.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Tut, tut fellas..................
All this whingeing ! Haven't you all forgotten that the Air Force is worthy of the ' Investors in People ' award ?
Shame on you all...............
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed or numbered............
All this whingeing ! Haven't you all forgotten that the Air Force is worthy of the ' Investors in People ' award ?
Shame on you all...............
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, de-briefed or numbered............
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like Melchett above, I'm becoming increasingly pi**ed off with the way that our lords and masters appear to be trying to treat HM Forces like a business. Just because some 'consultant' has told them that this, that or the other new scheme has made a business more profitable (while charging the MOD the equivalent of a new weapon system in fees), we suddenly have to embrace the new way like religious zealots. Heaven forbid that anyone in authority should be seen to turn round and tell the heirarchy "No - that won't work for a military organisation!" or the chorus would come from MOD Main Building, "A blasphemer! He must be enlightened!!"
Well, I have news for you and I won't charge a penny (I'm already employed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, so consider this a freebie) HM Forces are NOT a business, we are an INSURANCE POLICY and you don't skimp on your insurance premiums!!
I also wish that I could stop receiving the multitude of glossy brochures telling me how some new system, that actually won't affect me a great deal, is being introduced or telling me, in excruciating detail, how to do my job in exactly the same way that I've always been doing it!!
I think the last straw was 'Leadership in the Office' as published by 2SL. I understand that there are some people who do not behave in a way that gets the best out of their subordinates, but do we really need to waste our money on a brochure to tell them how to do it??
Well, I have news for you and I won't charge a penny (I'm already employed 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, so consider this a freebie)
HM Forces are NOT a business, we are an INSURANCE POLICY and you don't skimp on your insurance premiums!! I also wish that I could stop receiving the multitude of glossy brochures telling me how some new system, that actually won't affect me a great deal, is being introduced or telling me, in excruciating detail, how to do my job in exactly the same way that I've always been doing it!!
I think the last straw was 'Leadership in the Office' as published by 2SL. I understand that there are some people who do not behave in a way that gets the best out of their subordinates, but do we really need to waste our money on a brochure to tell them how to do it??
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canberra Australia
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Down Under in Oz the RAAF and the rest of the military, or what is left of it, has been ruined by what is called o u t s o u r c i n g and which our poor brother/sister RAF Brits seem to call leaning.
Our military guys/girls at the sharp end KNOW full well that if we get into a full blown stouch again we will fight on hard rations for a week or two while running out of fuel and ammo with very little blunt end in support.
It is some sort of a miracle that we can support our ongoing operations in those sandy places.
We go on hoping the other side is/will be worse and that we will be able to recover a modicum of esprite de corps from wherever it went before it is too late. It's difficult to develop a pride in one's service when nationalism is in decline and multi-culturism is going gang busters splitting us into factions.
My driving force during more than a fair share of combat was my belief that "I was doing my bit to help preserve the way of life for those who I was leaving behind." Trouble is that way of life has since changed for the worse and I'll be getting off the planet before it goes completely pear shaped.
Our military guys/girls at the sharp end KNOW full well that if we get into a full blown stouch again we will fight on hard rations for a week or two while running out of fuel and ammo with very little blunt end in support.
It is some sort of a miracle that we can support our ongoing operations in those sandy places.
We go on hoping the other side is/will be worse and that we will be able to recover a modicum of esprite de corps from wherever it went before it is too late. It's difficult to develop a pride in one's service when nationalism is in decline and multi-culturism is going gang busters splitting us into factions.
My driving force during more than a fair share of combat was my belief that "I was doing my bit to help preserve the way of life for those who I was leaving behind." Trouble is that way of life has since changed for the worse and I'll be getting off the planet before it goes completely pear shaped.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: london
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chaps and ladies
The late 90s saw aircrew leaving in droves so much so that each sqn was asked to send a couple of reps to a pow-wow with the AOC, at Waddington I think.
A report was published which pretty much answers the question to this thread.... and is almost a carbon copy of most of the sentiments shown above....I was there and I left for the airlines soon after where, personally, the grass is greener.
My point is that nothing seems to have changed in the best part of a decade.
From the military point, change for the better will only come from the top (government) as military posts seem to be short-term and who will stick their kneck out when one bad report from a reporting officer could blight a career and subsequent quality of life for the officer's family?
From an individual's point, where long-term quality of life is concerned then most will go if the grass appears greener, even if they are super-patriotic, as most people put their family/loved ones first.
So, imho, service life will improve when politicians think it needs to - if there are not enough servicemen for the wars.
Until such time, servicemen will leave at what politicians consider to be an acceptable rate.
My advice to most is plan on 2 careers as this post will re-appear in another 10 years time.
The late 90s saw aircrew leaving in droves so much so that each sqn was asked to send a couple of reps to a pow-wow with the AOC, at Waddington I think.
A report was published which pretty much answers the question to this thread.... and is almost a carbon copy of most of the sentiments shown above....I was there and I left for the airlines soon after where, personally, the grass is greener.
My point is that nothing seems to have changed in the best part of a decade.
From the military point, change for the better will only come from the top (government) as military posts seem to be short-term and who will stick their kneck out when one bad report from a reporting officer could blight a career and subsequent quality of life for the officer's family?
From an individual's point, where long-term quality of life is concerned then most will go if the grass appears greener, even if they are super-patriotic, as most people put their family/loved ones first.
So, imho, service life will improve when politicians think it needs to - if there are not enough servicemen for the wars.
Until such time, servicemen will leave at what politicians consider to be an acceptable rate.
My advice to most is plan on 2 careers as this post will re-appear in another 10 years time.