Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Avoid imitations
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Fair enough, so we have the truth. But now note I'm not at DHFS.
So, speaking from inside - what do YOU know about civilian helicopter pilots salaries that makes you qualified to speak with any authority?
So, speaking from inside - what do YOU know about civilian helicopter pilots salaries that makes you qualified to speak with any authority?
Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
I dont believe I ever said that YOU worked at Shawbury, so get off your high horse.
I also know shawbury quite well, although I dont work there either.
I also know shawbury quite well, although I dont work there either.
Avoid imitations
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Originally Posted by serf
Well leave then and find another job!
"Try getting an onshore job at the salary you mention, go and ask PAS, BAS etc what they get paid. As for offshore, you have NO chance of starting as a captain, no matter how good you think you are, it is all done on seniority, adhered to rigidly."
Or that?
But you didn't answer the question.
Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Seems like all they are after is parity with the military QHI's doing the same job, according to the BALPA spokesman on the BBC website.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Seems like all they are after is parity with the military QHI's doing the same job, according to the BALPA spokesman on the BBC website.
Guess they could go for QHI pay less the X-factor.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
"Seems like all they are after is parity with the military QHI's doing the same job, according to the BALPA spokesman on the BBC website."
Then they should take 'Full Time Reserve' Commisions, and risk putting themselves in the line of fire for President Tony and completing Ord Off, SDO, Guard Cdr, Secondary Duties etc etc with immediate effect. They are asking for parity with Spec Aircrew rather than a typical Flt Lt QHI (sweating on the PA spine), which they were never guaranteed had they remained in service.
ShyT, there are at least 2 Nigels who returned to Shy from the BA front line. One ex-A320 and one ex CRJ. For both it was time with family and quality of life that 'encouraged' their decision. You see there is more to life than money. In the case of the A320 chap, BA moving A320 from BHX to LHR and the associated nause of travelling at god forsaken hours meant that the salary drop was worth it. CRJ mate returned to uniform, albeit not the one he left! Jetset does not suit everybody all of the time.
Then they should take 'Full Time Reserve' Commisions, and risk putting themselves in the line of fire for President Tony and completing Ord Off, SDO, Guard Cdr, Secondary Duties etc etc with immediate effect. They are asking for parity with Spec Aircrew rather than a typical Flt Lt QHI (sweating on the PA spine), which they were never guaranteed had they remained in service.
ShyT, there are at least 2 Nigels who returned to Shy from the BA front line. One ex-A320 and one ex CRJ. For both it was time with family and quality of life that 'encouraged' their decision. You see there is more to life than money. In the case of the A320 chap, BA moving A320 from BHX to LHR and the associated nause of travelling at god forsaken hours meant that the salary drop was worth it. CRJ mate returned to uniform, albeit not the one he left! Jetset does not suit everybody all of the time.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
"Then they should take 'Full Time Reserve' Commisions, and risk putting themselves in the line of fire for President Tony and completing Ord Off, SDO, Guard Cdr, Secondary Duties etc etc with immediate effect. They are asking for parity with Spec Aircrew rather than a typical Flt Lt QHI (sweating on the PA spine), which they were never guaranteed had they remained in service."
Or they could stay at Shawbury as civvies with no private medical or dental cover, only 6 days a year sick before they go onto Stat Sick Pay, limited or no job security, 24 days holiday, no home to duty. Giving continuity to the students whilst the military guys are, doing a variety of meaningless duties, away on det, SDO's, Duty NCO's, expeds, force development, 6 weeks leave, re-engagement leave, comp leave, other ad-hoc self improvement government paid-for courses, sports events, off sick on full pay, unfit flying/off with sporting injuries etc, etc, etc.
Or they could stay at Shawbury as civvies with no private medical or dental cover, only 6 days a year sick before they go onto Stat Sick Pay, limited or no job security, 24 days holiday, no home to duty. Giving continuity to the students whilst the military guys are, doing a variety of meaningless duties, away on det, SDO's, Duty NCO's, expeds, force development, 6 weeks leave, re-engagement leave, comp leave, other ad-hoc self improvement government paid-for courses, sports events, off sick on full pay, unfit flying/off with sporting injuries etc, etc, etc.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Shawbury Civvy Rotary pilots are members of BALPA?
Oh grief!
Doesn't BALPA stand for British AIRLINE Pilots Association?
How the fook does someone who flies a mil rotary hydraulic palm tree around the Shropshire skies get access to an airline pilots association? Is that why they want airline pilots wages?
I am most intrigued.
Oh grief!
Doesn't BALPA stand for British AIRLINE Pilots Association?
How the fook does someone who flies a mil rotary hydraulic palm tree around the Shropshire skies get access to an airline pilots association? Is that why they want airline pilots wages?
I am most intrigued.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Maybe old Ronnie Reagan had an idea after all. Sack them all and then reemploy the ones who want to work for the contract they signed. Some sympathy but not a lot. PS if some of the company employees dont want to strike then leave them the fcuk alone.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Good Headin
Since when does an airline have to fly commercial jets? Rotary pilots hold
ATPLH - Airline Transport Pilot License Helicopter.
Not like sim drivers at CATCS
Since when does an airline have to fly commercial jets? Rotary pilots hold
ATPLH - Airline Transport Pilot License Helicopter.
Not like sim drivers at CATCS
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
"Rotary pilots hold ATPLH - Airline Transport Pilot License Helicopter."
FBH QHIs do not hold ATPLH for their job, in fact I believe that even a CPL is not required.
FBH QHIs do not hold ATPLH for their job, in fact I believe that even a CPL is not required.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Seems like all they are after is parity with the military QHI's doing the same job
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Interesting again that the SERIOUSLY deranged "a good hedin" is firing from the hip - is it your life ambition to just irritate people by all you say and do - can't you just stick to doing that in your day time job as an airtrafficer.
Mighty funny you go on about ATPL and BALPA etc when you as a self confesed airtraficer are viewing and passing comment on a military AIRCREW forum - do us all a favour and irritate someone else who might be remotley interested in your bleeting.
Mighty funny you go on about ATPL and BALPA etc when you as a self confesed airtraficer are viewing and passing comment on a military AIRCREW forum - do us all a favour and irritate someone else who might be remotley interested in your bleeting.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
swerve i refer you to the top of the page, its not just an aircrew forum.
"Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
"Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here."
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
FBH QHIs do not hold ATPLH for their job, in fact I believe that even a CPL is not required.
It well may be a fact that you believe, but that does not mean to say it was a fact!
Cheers
Whirls
Edited to add that (apparently!) I made the invalid assumption that some of the instructors may have been civilian trained!?
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Whirlygig,
Start Believing. It's a fact that civvy QHIs at Shawbury do not require an ATPLH. The Aircraft are on the Military register: different rules.
Undecided on this one, not sure that they should get same as a Mil QHI cos they don't do the same job.
They all left the military so that they could have their cushy stay in the same place with no dets job, so they simply don't deserve it. (Mind you a lot of the old codgers there were stuck in their little cosy rut for years before they jumped ship anyway)
On the other hand, I say that they deserve a fair wage for what they actually do, and if that means a strike then go for it! Have more respect for the engineers to be fair, from the bit i've seen, serviceability is awesome and engineers are hard to come by.
Start Believing. It's a fact that civvy QHIs at Shawbury do not require an ATPLH. The Aircraft are on the Military register: different rules.
Undecided on this one, not sure that they should get same as a Mil QHI cos they don't do the same job.
They all left the military so that they could have their cushy stay in the same place with no dets job, so they simply don't deserve it. (Mind you a lot of the old codgers there were stuck in their little cosy rut for years before they jumped ship anyway)
On the other hand, I say that they deserve a fair wage for what they actually do, and if that means a strike then go for it! Have more respect for the engineers to be fair, from the bit i've seen, serviceability is awesome and engineers are hard to come by.
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Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
No, they do not expect PARITY with the mil QHIs. Not even parity less X-factor (you know the bit that covers OOA deployments, getting in harms way, etc). Just a realistic narrowing of the huge gap that has opened between them and their mil counterparts over the last few years, and a salary that accurately represents their experience level and contribution to the flying training pipeline.
Unfortunately, there is not a directly comparable group of ex-mil QHIs with current flying medical cats anywhere else in UK, so any attempts at comparisons are bound to fail. I heard such attempts described as comparing apples with oranges - a fair statement.
Those still in and slagging off the BALPA members should realise that they just may be in the same situation after their time in the service of HM - glass houses, stones, etc.
Unfortunately, there is not a directly comparable group of ex-mil QHIs with current flying medical cats anywhere else in UK, so any attempts at comparisons are bound to fail. I heard such attempts described as comparing apples with oranges - a fair statement.
Those still in and slagging off the BALPA members should realise that they just may be in the same situation after their time in the service of HM - glass houses, stones, etc.
Re: Imminent strike at RAF Shawbury?
Not UK, but if you'd like an apples and oranges comparison there's a job going out here in the ME with precisely the same requirements (no licence required, but mil QHI experience and the ability to pass a medical cat) that pays a double-percentage figure more than the Shawbury fellas are getting. That's before our friend Gordon gets his mitts on his share of their pay - no taxman here. If any of our Shawbury friends - or anyone else that's qualified - is interested you probably know who to contact.
Huge amount of sour grapes being flung around in here.
- BALPA membership? Why not - you can even join (although without the full membership benefits) while you're in the mob. It's the only organisation in the UK that effectively protects professional pilots, so who else should the Shawbury instructors pick to look after them?
- Licences - who needs 'em, so long as there is a Govt approved standards scheme in place to ensure quality of service. Which I suspect is at least as good if not better than that in place at most CAA-inspected establishments.
- Parity with mil QHIs? Haven't heard this from the pilots themselves, only from correspondents to this thread and (presumably - I can't access it here) the BBC report. I have my doubts as to whether this is what is being requested, for the same reasons as have (sometimes eloquently, often not..) been expressed here.
Having taught at Shawbury in the early 80s I've a fair idea of what the job entails, and I've also been back to visit old friends since leaving the forces. OK, so they're getting more currently than company-employed Police/EMS pilots but they're nowhere near what a direct employed Emergency Services aviator is earning. Good luck to them - if people think the employer can open a new box of instructors (as the Americans did with their ATC'ers) they might have a nasty shock in store.
Huge amount of sour grapes being flung around in here.
- BALPA membership? Why not - you can even join (although without the full membership benefits) while you're in the mob. It's the only organisation in the UK that effectively protects professional pilots, so who else should the Shawbury instructors pick to look after them?
- Licences - who needs 'em, so long as there is a Govt approved standards scheme in place to ensure quality of service. Which I suspect is at least as good if not better than that in place at most CAA-inspected establishments.
- Parity with mil QHIs? Haven't heard this from the pilots themselves, only from correspondents to this thread and (presumably - I can't access it here) the BBC report. I have my doubts as to whether this is what is being requested, for the same reasons as have (sometimes eloquently, often not..) been expressed here.
Having taught at Shawbury in the early 80s I've a fair idea of what the job entails, and I've also been back to visit old friends since leaving the forces. OK, so they're getting more currently than company-employed Police/EMS pilots but they're nowhere near what a direct employed Emergency Services aviator is earning. Good luck to them - if people think the employer can open a new box of instructors (as the Americans did with their ATC'ers) they might have a nasty shock in store.