Cdt
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legality?
Situation:
One of your charges has spent a weekend abroad, looking round Anne Franck's house, and taking in the local atmosphere in a coffee chop or three.
Then fails a CDT on his return Monday morning.
What is the standpoint there?
One of your charges has spent a weekend abroad, looking round Anne Franck's house, and taking in the local atmosphere in a coffee chop or three.
Then fails a CDT on his return Monday morning.
What is the standpoint there?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep, I concur with all the thoughts ref CDT in so much as its a good thing. It doesn't act as a deterrent but it does sort the weed (no pun meant) from the chaff. I do also think that we have to consider that many of our peope who join today have dabbled. This includes Officers as well as the lads and lasses but we should continue to enforce the fact that Drugs are bad.
I do have a problem with alcohol though. I find it strange that we continue to promote and encourage drinking.
Someone mentioned the fact that they live in the mess and yet their lives are not dominated by alcohol. But the fact remains that smack bang in the middle of your sitting room is a bar. And although the bar has normal (pub) opening hours, should the bar be closed when you arrive there is the safety net of a night bar ????
On ships at sea there are generally 7 or 8 messes and each one is centred around a bar. From the moment the guys wake up until the moment they go to sleep they live in a bar.
Is this the way we should expect our people to live?
I do have a problem with alcohol though. I find it strange that we continue to promote and encourage drinking.
Someone mentioned the fact that they live in the mess and yet their lives are not dominated by alcohol. But the fact remains that smack bang in the middle of your sitting room is a bar. And although the bar has normal (pub) opening hours, should the bar be closed when you arrive there is the safety net of a night bar ????
On ships at sea there are generally 7 or 8 messes and each one is centred around a bar. From the moment the guys wake up until the moment they go to sleep they live in a bar.
Is this the way we should expect our people to live?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ball gazing
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sort the weed (no pun meant) from the chaff
I do have a problem with alcohol though
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On ships at sea there are generally 7 or 8 messes and each one is centred around a bar. From the moment the guys wake up until the moment they go to sleep they live in a bar.
(First point I'd make is there are as many messes on ships at sea as there are when they're alongside. Messes tend to be an integral part of the infrastructure
)Jnr Rates do not have a bar in their accommodation areas, Snr Rates do but it isn't open all the time, and the O's have the ward room. The point I'd stress is the bar is only one area of a mess deck. It's a bit like saying every landlord in the country lives in a pub therefore must be a grade A wino.
A "night bar" ? You mean the Scruffs bar? No it is not a safety net. It is a private room of the mess for those mess members who find themselves unable to use the mess public bar due to either a formal function taking place there, or by returning from work after closing time. It is, however, as closely run as the main bar, is fully accounted for and just because it can stay open past usual closing times (it is a private room after all) doesn't mean it has to.
I do have a problem with alcohol though
Must go, it's almost noon, and time for my pre-lunch G&T.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jnr Rates do not have a bar in their accommodation areas
I didn't mean the scruffs bar. The scruffs bar is open during normal hours. After it closes the night bar opens . It is not administered, no one opens or closes it. It is run on an open and honest policy. If you take beer from the night bar you sign the chit.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah right..........are we talking genuine "Bar" or "Beer fridge"?
I mean..........The Bar, The Scruffs Bar and now the "Night Bar". We'll be rivalling Caesars Palace at this rate.
I suspect dear southside, that you are getting confused between the Scruffs bar and your mysterious "night bar" which are, in fact, one and the same.
(.....and now you'll come back with the predictable druggy argument that if it's ok to leave us alone with a fridge full of beer on the understanding we won't abuse it, why can't we be left alone with some "Smarties" on the understanding we won't abuse them?
)
Anyway, must go, it's after midday and time for a boozy lunch with a large bottle of Red.
I mean..........The Bar, The Scruffs Bar and now the "Night Bar". We'll be rivalling Caesars Palace at this rate.
I suspect dear southside, that you are getting confused between the Scruffs bar and your mysterious "night bar" which are, in fact, one and the same.
(.....and now you'll come back with the predictable druggy argument that if it's ok to leave us alone with a fridge full of beer on the understanding we won't abuse it, why can't we be left alone with some "Smarties" on the understanding we won't abuse them?
)Anyway, must go, it's after midday and time for a boozy lunch with a large bottle of Red.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh dear. here goes then. At my station we have 3 bars. The main bar is the posh bar and is only open on special occasions, mess dinners etc.
The normal bar is the scruffs bar. OPen normal times. I.E. lunch times and in the evenings, closing at about 11pm I think. Next door is a small room with a big fridge in it, a bar and a darts board. Thats called the night bar. The fridge has a padlock on it and if you require it you go and sign out the key from the Hall porter. You are then responsible for the fridge and its contents.....
Just had another thought. Even the crewroom in the squadron has a bar in it... blimey, I'm surrounded by them.
The normal bar is the scruffs bar. OPen normal times. I.E. lunch times and in the evenings, closing at about 11pm I think. Next door is a small room with a big fridge in it, a bar and a darts board. Thats called the night bar. The fridge has a padlock on it and if you require it you go and sign out the key from the Hall porter. You are then responsible for the fridge and its contents.....
Just had another thought. Even the crewroom in the squadron has a bar in it... blimey, I'm surrounded by them.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man you SO need to get posted. A dart board? Whoo. Bet there's a set of Dominoes and a 999-piece jigsaw puzzle too?
We've got a room the size of Wembley stadium, a TV the size of Uranus, wall to wall Sky, surround sound that'd split your kidneys, big comfy Lazeeboy reclining chairs and those sloppy sofa sized bean bag thingies, full table service from the stewards and a chrome pole in the corner, up and down which slides Rachel Stevens in just her kecks.
But (partially) seriously....
You have two bars, (one of which is only used for special and therefore perhaps infrequent occasions) and one beer fridge but for the purposes of your argument they're all "bars" until that fact is queried when you clarify your meaning with an aloof undertone of "I thought you knew that's what I meant?"
Mate, you belong in politics.....or journalism. They also tend to condone use of illicit drugs. You'll fit right in.
We've got a room the size of Wembley stadium, a TV the size of Uranus, wall to wall Sky, surround sound that'd split your kidneys, big comfy Lazeeboy reclining chairs and those sloppy sofa sized bean bag thingies, full table service from the stewards and a chrome pole in the corner, up and down which slides Rachel Stevens in just her kecks.
But (partially) seriously....
You have two bars, (one of which is only used for special and therefore perhaps infrequent occasions) and one beer fridge but for the purposes of your argument they're all "bars" until that fact is queried when you clarify your meaning with an aloof undertone of "I thought you knew that's what I meant?"
Mate, you belong in politics.....or journalism. They also tend to condone use of illicit drugs. You'll fit right in.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, not 2 bars.....3 Bars. the posh bar, scruffs bar and the night bar. The scruffs bar has all those things you mentioned but the night bar (which is essentially a fridge with a plank of wood over the top of it....has a dart board in the room. Thanks for the tip about politics....not sure a Secondary School edumacation would be allowed. Journalism...Hmm, done that. Worked for a local rag prior to joining up. Got fed up with "Cat stuck up tree" and "Rovers lose again - manager sacked" stories....
Yeah, there is a set of Dom's in there as well.....and a crib board..Not generally used for Crib though (if you get my drift)
Yeah, there is a set of Dom's in there as well.....and a crib board..Not generally used for Crib though (if you get my drift)
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So in your book a fridge with a plank over it is a bar? Sheeezzz.
I can see where your problem lies young man....you think the bar, a bar, any bar is there soley to store and serve alcohol, and serves absoutely no other purpose, thus you assume everyone else only goes there to get leathered too.
Can't deny I admire your resourcefulness and optimism in the face of an apparently limited infrastructure though.
"Plank + fridge = bar"
Who supplies the plank southside?
I can see where your problem lies young man....you think the bar, a bar, any bar is there soley to store and serve alcohol, and serves absoutely no other purpose, thus you assume everyone else only goes there to get leathered too.
Can't deny I admire your resourcefulness and optimism in the face of an apparently limited infrastructure though.
"Plank + fridge = bar"
Who supplies the plank southside?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: northside
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, I say plank but its actually part of a disused kitchen work top. Its been refurbished and is quite nice. Underneath is the fridge. Its known as the night bar and can only be opened after the scruffs bar is shut. Very handy for having a beer on Completion of night flying.
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every sqn I've ever been on has had a tea/coffee bar. Should we be concerned about this tacit approval for caffeine and toast abuse too?
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
southside old boy, answer me this:
So, the mess has one or 100 bars - do you feel pressured into getting screechers every night because of that?
Do you not have the self control to moderate your intake?
Is the fact that the Mess has a bar part of a sinister MoD conspiracy to encourage alcoholism whilst paradoxically condemning crack smoking?
Can't you, as Mess members, vote to have the bar shut down and removed, at your next AGM?
How do the senior echelons ensure that their contradictory drug/alcohol policy is enforced on livers out? Do they build bars in the living rooms of MQs?
Does the fact that I have a 3/4 full bottle of Dalwhinnie and an unopened bottle of Veuve Cliquot Yellow Label in my room in the mess make me a raging alcoholic?
How is this relevant to illegal drugs?
Would you be happy to fly in a service aircraft if it had been serviced by a stoner, the pilot did a line to get in the 'zone' before flight, the firemen were all cooking up down at their section, the atco had a crack pipe on the go, the med centre ambulance driver had just emptied the wagon of morphine and viagra, the Naval exchange dude had done so many poppers he could sit around a tree stump, OC Ops was mashed on crystal meth, the loady was tripping, the Staish was making a mushroom omlette and the SDO had consumed a small sherry. (After all 'the SDO is to drink in moderation' (SDO TORs)).
So, the mess has one or 100 bars - do you feel pressured into getting screechers every night because of that?
Do you not have the self control to moderate your intake?
Is the fact that the Mess has a bar part of a sinister MoD conspiracy to encourage alcoholism whilst paradoxically condemning crack smoking?
Can't you, as Mess members, vote to have the bar shut down and removed, at your next AGM?
How do the senior echelons ensure that their contradictory drug/alcohol policy is enforced on livers out? Do they build bars in the living rooms of MQs?
Does the fact that I have a 3/4 full bottle of Dalwhinnie and an unopened bottle of Veuve Cliquot Yellow Label in my room in the mess make me a raging alcoholic?
How is this relevant to illegal drugs?
Would you be happy to fly in a service aircraft if it had been serviced by a stoner, the pilot did a line to get in the 'zone' before flight, the firemen were all cooking up down at their section, the atco had a crack pipe on the go, the med centre ambulance driver had just emptied the wagon of morphine and viagra, the Naval exchange dude had done so many poppers he could sit around a tree stump, OC Ops was mashed on crystal meth, the loady was tripping, the Staish was making a mushroom omlette and the SDO had consumed a small sherry. (After all 'the SDO is to drink in moderation' (SDO TORs)).
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With reference to the CDT guilty until proved otherwise, what are your thoughts?
I personally don't care that this assumption is made as it ensures that the boys and girls working on/in my cab are in a fit state to do so. Before certain people start flying the civil liberties flag consider this, the fear of testing positive on a CDT test keeps (most) people clean thereby stopping us getting into serious debt, living in squallor like the gent in Talking Radalt's post, endangering our health (yes alcohol is a poison but you can't get Hep B or HIV or a pint of Smiths) and being killed as a result of an OD. I have nothing to hide/prove and I am more than happy to endure the ball ache of CDT when it comes around as it helps to discourage drug use in the forces.
You will note the use of the first person plural, as it is not only other ranks that are picked up for drug abuse but also officers.
Spelling mistakes are because I can't spell damn it!
I personally don't care that this assumption is made as it ensures that the boys and girls working on/in my cab are in a fit state to do so. Before certain people start flying the civil liberties flag consider this, the fear of testing positive on a CDT test keeps (most) people clean thereby stopping us getting into serious debt, living in squallor like the gent in Talking Radalt's post, endangering our health (yes alcohol is a poison but you can't get Hep B or HIV or a pint of Smiths) and being killed as a result of an OD. I have nothing to hide/prove and I am more than happy to endure the ball ache of CDT when it comes around as it helps to discourage drug use in the forces.
You will note the use of the first person plural, as it is not only other ranks that are picked up for drug abuse but also officers.
Spelling mistakes are because I can't spell damn it!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: door or ramp, don't mind.
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You will note the use of the first person plural, as it is not only other ranks that are picked up for drug abuse but also officers.
southside me old chum,
Just to pick a few more holes in your purple-hazed universe.....
Posh bar.....only open for special occasions. (Headmaster's birthday, end of term etc?) Presumably those who would normally visit the Scruffs bar will invariably be at said function, thus rendering Scruffs devoid of clientele? Okey dokey.
If there is no function in the Posh bar it doesn't open and everyone reverts to the Scruffs bar. Roger so far.
If Bloggs returns from night flying fancying a sherbet and, shock horror, the Sruffs bar is closed (due to over-use by all the resident winos no doubt?) and there is no special function in the Posh bar, he can then claim Night Bar rules and steal the keys to your impressive fridge/plank combo including free use of the dart board (darts extra).
But he can only do that if both the posh bar and scruffs bar are closed. OK, fair readable.
So correct me if I'm wrong Bloggs only ever has access to one source of grog, which is akin to only having one bar in the Mess, with or without plank.
Where's the snag?
Last edited by Talking Radalt; 20th Oct 2005 at 18:39.
Slightly off-topic: having noticed certain troll-like similarities between southside's contributions and those of a character who used to call himself vecvechookattack, I did a quick search. The vecvec person made his last witty comment on 14 July - "southside" then joined on 15 July and made his first post on the 18th of that month. Talking Radalt, you were one of the correspondents in the thread vecvecetc posted - you might like to look back and see if you can spot any similarities in style and content. Like the lack of a "shift" key when he/she/it/they were thinking up user names, for example - prob not significant.
Sadly, the "search" facility draws a blank on vecvecetc, indicating his account is now defunct. Same goes for the character who used to post as Mikehegland. There seem to be similarities between that now-departed contributor and the above-mentioned 2 - Mikehegland stopped posting in Jan 2005 after only 2 months on the forums. Not such a strong set of similarities here though - for a start, this one used a capital "M". Still, he liked to stir and malign - which is what made me think it might have been another nom de guerre.
So dress me up as Billy Goat Gruff and pop me next to the bridge, but I sniffs a troll here!
Sadly, the "search" facility draws a blank on vecvecetc, indicating his account is now defunct. Same goes for the character who used to post as Mikehegland. There seem to be similarities between that now-departed contributor and the above-mentioned 2 - Mikehegland stopped posting in Jan 2005 after only 2 months on the forums. Not such a strong set of similarities here though - for a start, this one used a capital "M". Still, he liked to stir and malign - which is what made me think it might have been another nom de guerre.
So dress me up as Billy Goat Gruff and pop me next to the bridge, but I sniffs a troll here!
Inter Arma Enim Silentius Lex Legis
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Southside’s pedigree goes back even further - to Admin Guru.
I don't know why a lot of you guys are getting so worked up about CDT. As others have eluded it is just as big out here except that most companies have an alcohol policy as well. In my industry you can have a pint or two the night before, drive to work, be stopped by the feds outside the gates, be breathalysed and pass. Then immediately drive past the gates to be met by the companies med screen people be breathalysed, fail due to the lower limits and be dismissed immediately.
But it works well because no one turns up under the influence of anything. Have known only one person fail and it wasn’t the result of a random test. He had been to Amsterdam and the wacky baccy emporiums with his girlfriend where he partook of the delights. Came home and dumped his girly who promptly grassed him up to his employers.
If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.
I don't know why a lot of you guys are getting so worked up about CDT. As others have eluded it is just as big out here except that most companies have an alcohol policy as well. In my industry you can have a pint or two the night before, drive to work, be stopped by the feds outside the gates, be breathalysed and pass. Then immediately drive past the gates to be met by the companies med screen people be breathalysed, fail due to the lower limits and be dismissed immediately.
But it works well because no one turns up under the influence of anything. Have known only one person fail and it wasn’t the result of a random test. He had been to Amsterdam and the wacky baccy emporiums with his girlfriend where he partook of the delights. Came home and dumped his girly who promptly grassed him up to his employers.
If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.