Cdt

[Data-Lynx]

VigilantPilot
Just sometimes the management selects the right person to assist in the CDT process. A scruffy sailor of the sort that model for Tugg cartoons was selected to 'buddy' an army officer for CDT in the Gym at Northwood. This slim six foot plus full colonel in the Lifeguards was supporting his General and other senior CDT volunteers. He offered the rest of us an absolutely perfect look of horror and disgust as the sailor tried to pass him the rubber glove. I cannot imagine what he thought 'Jack' was trying to do, but he took great strides to the lou, with 'Jack' jogging along behind - all set to carry out his observation duties. Perhaps next time he might listen carefully to the brief. A lesson there somewhere.

[BEagle]

Some years ago when the piddle-sniffing plods pounced on the Covert Oxonian Aerodrome, it trasnpired that on the list of prospective piddlers was one Wg Cdr K Rucksack....

"Not surprising", quoth another Wg Cdr (boss of a certain premier tanker squadron), "..people have been taking the pi$$ out of that idiot for years!"

[Talking Radalt]

So, FOMere2Eternity, whenever Light Blue PLC shifts with the times and introduces or scraps a certain condition of service, it does so all to maintain an elaborate con trick?
Could you expand please, because for the life of me I cannot figure out what the **** you are on about.
So those who object are allowed to quietly leave by the back door.....
You think any other large corporation is any different?
Fact is, no one wants the wheezy boy with a note from matron on their team, hence any boat-rockers are usually permitted a swift, silent exit, then think they've beaten the system, only to realise the system has won by propelling them and their little moralistic student union crusade in to obscurity.

(PS Can you look somewhere other than my locstat for inspiration when choosing a name)

[CashMachine]

Life in a blue suit

So, Talking Radalt, according to you everyone should merrily accept anything the Air Force decides and just follow orders blindly? I was only following orders (I've heard that somewhere else??)!
Quite frankly, these are the same old arguments spewed out everytime anyone questions anything - "if you don't like it get out", "if you can't take a joke", "thats life in a blue suit". Aren't we (engineers anyway!) all trained to question things and not to just accept the status quo (crap band by the way!).
The point I was trying to make about CDT is not that I condone drug taking in any form (oh, except if you are a pilot and your government decide it's a good idea to give you uppers to keep you on the ball longer!!!!! oh contraversial) but that you are effectivly placed under open arrest untill you have provided a sample. Don't think you're under open arrest, try to leave the camp if your name is on that list!!!! What else do you call that?
Do the civvie companies who employ random drug testing hold their staff against their will until they provide a sample?
What if the Air Force decided that it had had enough of people stealing it's printer paper, pens, tools etc (not me!!) and said that, on a purely random basis, it would conduct house/room searches. Anyone found with anything they shouldn't have will be kicked out! Would you consider this to be just "a condition of service"? After all, I'm sure you don't condone stealing!

[FOMere2eternity]

Thanks CashMachine - I had started a reply but lost the will to live trying to explain what I meant to TR. It's not the individual policies, it's the way the policies are just dumped on us.

[JessTheDog]

I didn't mind CDT, just the inept way it was handled at a certain headquarters in rural Bucks that generated long queues to leave for lunch simply to prove that you weren't dodging the test as the result of indulging in the weed, crystals or powder or whatever.

[CashMachine]

FOMere2eternity, yeah it did take a while to put it all in words. Nearly lost the will myself, oh wait

[albert the first]

I can see the argument for CDT but I really don't like the premise of it. I mean how far is it going to go, are the police going to come knocking at my house to search it just in case I have nicked some kim wipe.

I do find myself in broad agreement with CashMachine.

Also this 'if you don't like it get out' sh*te that some people say really annoys me. Would there be anyone in the military if you left every time something you didn't like the way things happened or a rule your not to keen on was introduced.

I mean I can see it
“You, SAC Bloggs stop chewing gum on parade”
“What your not allowed to chew on parade, well I think we should be allowed to chew on parade, I know I have a great job (I know not many SAC would say that, but there might be 1 or 2) but I don’t like that rule so I’m PVR’ing”

I think I’m starting to rant on a bit now so I’ll stop.

ATF

[Talking Radalt]

So, Talking Radalt, according to you everyone should merrily accept anything the Air Force decides?

Errrr, no, according to me everyone should merrily accept there's not much they can do to alter what the Air Force decides, whether they accept what the Air Force decides or not.
I mean....one hour and 5mls of pi$$.....is it really that much of an issue?
May be you need to get out (on Ops) a bit more.

Edit: Course another way to look at it is:
Occasionally providing a sample of wee in between flyingvs Occasionally flying somewhere to sniff someone else's wee.

[CashMachine]

I mean....one hour and 5mls of pi$$.....is it really that much of an issue?

Well, actually yes it is that big of an issue!

Do you vote, Talking Radalt? Or do you just accept that there's not much you can do to alter what the government decides! Oh well, the government want me to pay £300 for an ID card, there's not much I can do about that so I'll have to stump up the cash or emigrate.

I notice you didn't answer the other points in my reply, why not?

[Talking Radalt]

I notice you didn't answer the other points in my reply, why not?

Something about losing the will to live?
It's an open forum, replies are optional. How's that for a civil liberty?!

But since you ask....

Do you vote, Talking Radalt? Or do you just accept that there's not much you can do to alter what the government decides!

Yes I do vote, as that's one way the course of Governmental decisions can be swayed to meet my own view point. But voting in a Govt and accepting the conditions of your employer are somewhat different.
Nice idea though it may seem , I cannot for the life of me recall the last time we "voted" for a new Sqn boss for example.
We protect democracy, we don't practise it.

[CashMachine]

Not trying to get into a slagging match, just trying to make a point.

Laugh, it makes people wonder what you're up to.

Oh, and always walk around with a clipboard or bit of paper - make people think your busy!

[Talking Radalt]

I thought it went:

Laugh, people will think you're busy

and

Always carry a clipboard, people will wonder what you've been up to.

[Maple 01]

I think the point is that you can't change terms and conditions in the real world without renegotiating the whole employment contract. Now bear with me for a moment, I know historically we haven't had written contracts, but we never had H&S or the European Courts judgments either and we are supposed to be coming into line with civilian ‘best practice’.

I joined in 1983 so you could argue that I signed up for the terms and conditions in force then, I re-engaged in 1991 so my T&C would have changed to those of the time.

Subsequently the Airforce have introduced

AFT
CFT
CCS (or whatever it's called these days)
CDT
Pre-deployment training
JMLC
IMLC
The other LC

It has removed

Warrants
Assorted 'perks'

I’m not saying it’s all bad, I shouldn’t have been asked to do it, it’s unfair, an organisation shouldn’t change and evolve etc. What I am saying is at each major change PMA/C should have issued new contracts or given us the option to continue service under ‘Grandfather Rights’ until the old one expired. I realise I joined an Armed Force before anyone points that out, but you don't automatically wave any notion of fair treatment by putting on a blue suit - do you?

The government didn’t feel that they could just bulldoze the change in pensions through in the same style as all the previous policy changes and accepted that only those that joined after the implementation of the new scheme would be affected unless individuals specifically chose to transfer to the new terms. This to me is a tact admission that there are fixed T&C when you join-up that can not be arbitrarily changed - so if that's the case, why were things handled differently for the other conditional changes?

Not a rant, just asking for views


Now, now, now, look here, you just stop that conchy talk right now, Private. It's, it's absurd, it's Bolshevism, and it wouldn't work, anyway

Lt George, the Somme, 1917.

[The Gorilla]

You are actually spot on Sir. You do not have a contract in any form but you do have terms and conditions of service that can be varied at any time. Even so PMA are constrained and most people must remember the pre Oct 89 TOS Fiasco? HOWEVER you have a right within three months of the said terms being varied to give notice to quit if you find them unacceptable. They cannot stop you leaving within a reasonable period.

I know this not because I am barrack room lawyer but because I paid a large sack of cash to a solicitors firm to get the advice.

In my case it was an unused string to my bow, in Feb 03 PMA announced the FRI to certain NCA wouldn't be paid from Apr 03. This represented an unacceptable change to my T&C's and would have warranted my leaving under the three-month rule.

But my man did say the main problem would be getting a favourable interpretation of “reasonable period”

[Blacksheep]

For those thinking of PVRing in protest, you can't escape. We civilians do random testing too.

oh, except if you are a pilot and your government decide it's a good idea to give you uppers to keep you on the ball longer!!!!!

Nothing new about that. HMG gave us amphetamines to keep us awake during Mickey Finns when we were often at work on aeroplanes for three days continuously with no off-duty time. I fell asleep leaning against a running GPU on the ORP and 3 B1A's running up to full chat just fifty feet away during the scramble didn't wake me up. The following year at Brawdy we were all on uppers and stayed hard at it for the full trip. The only problem is they didn't give us downers when we got back to Waddington and we couldn't sleep for another couple of days.

[RubiC Cube]

Cash Machine

You would still need to pay the £300 (or whatever) to emigrate! Th expensive version is your new passport. Gotcha!

[southside]

As most recreational drugs do little or no harm, isn't it about time we accepted that a small % of our band are going to take drugs? What about testing for alcohol as well?

[mystic_meg]

As most recreational drugs do little or no harm, isn't it about time we accepted that a small % of our band are going to take drugs? What about testing for alcohol as well?

Jeez, are you for real Southside? As an Officer, YOU have a responsibility to lead by example. Current (and let's hope future) HM Forces policy is ZERO TOLERANCE for drugs - simple. If you cannot agree with that, then get the hell out of dodge, asap.
I can't quite believe that on one forum you're espousing the 'go and find an officer' line, yet here you are trotting out this tolerance to druggies crap.
-btw, alcohol testing is already in place - IIRC, any aircraft incident/accident classified as Cat 3* or higher will result in blood tests for ALL parties involved (Aircrew, Groundcrew, Air Traffickers etc.)

* some brighter Ppruner is going to correct me on this, I know!

[Talking Radalt]

As most recreational drugs do little or no harm

unless you're name is
Rachel Whitear

Lorna Spinks

or

Kerry Anne Kirk

...to name but three.

Little or no harm?
Thank you Dr Southside.