Pay As You Dine has emptied the Dining Room(Of diners)
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Pay As You Dine has emptied the Dining Room(Of diners)
The Wardroom at Culdrose has a massive dining room with plenty of tables. Unfortunately however there's normally only a couple of tables occupied at dinner time. Pretty poor food(compared to all other Wardrooms), trivial charging procedures and a complete lack of atmosphere have driven most people away. With that the once(and continuing elsewhere) enjoyable and social occasion of dinner has been destroyed. The 'Kitchenettes' in the accommodation passageways are now well fitted out and people are found cooking microwave meals there instead. This place is now just like a student accommodation block. No wonder before I arrived the guys(and girls) based here were all advising living out, and the majority now do.
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Feneris, agree however (seeing as I am not there at the moment) I thought they let you have the option of taking your PAYD meal in the Datum should you so wish? I know that place lost a bit of atmosphere after the Berni Inn makeover but it does still retain a bit of character, certainly more than the drab dining room where (in my experience last time stationed there) there were more staff than diners and they spent the whole time watching you, ready to pounce as soon as you have finished.
The only time its worth dining there is Taranto Night!
The only time its worth dining there is Taranto Night!
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There is little point moaning about it. PAYD has arrived as a result of people moaning that the food was too expensive and that even if you didnt go to a meal, you still paid for it. We asked for PAYD ....it hasn't been thrust upon us.
The Sea Lords conducted the PAYD introduction with care. they condyucted an intensive and failrly long trial. The asked people what they thought of it and the general consensus was that it was good. Therefore it was introduced.
Agreed, it kills Wardroom life BUT its what we asked for so there is little point moaning.
The Sea Lords conducted the PAYD introduction with care. they condyucted an intensive and failrly long trial. The asked people what they thought of it and the general consensus was that it was good. Therefore it was introduced.
Agreed, it kills Wardroom life BUT its what we asked for so there is little point moaning.
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I think you will find the minority moaned and the brass didnt do an adequate survey. Why should they? another area to cut costs.
I am bl**dy sick of the idea of PAYD, as are the vast majority of Livers in, many of whom see this as yet another attack on our standard of living and our way of life. Well mark my words, they will never ever be able to stop any Officer carrying a crate of lager or bottle of their own wine into the bar and consuming it at half of the cost of what it will cost once PAYD not only destroys the dining room, but also the bar as well. Oh yes, before I forget, once PAYD takes over the bar, forget any subsidies towards the summer ball (massive reduction in subsidy if any) and rediculous function prices. This will kill the messes.
Why oh why, seeing the trials at Leuchars and Henlow have not gone swimmingly, have we continued to persue this junk? Or is it due to cost savings the scheme will realize? The original request, as I remember it from the moaners was to have a sheet to sign on a nightly basis to declare whether meals had been taken; NOT for our bar to be robbed and be charged for individual portions of bread, butter and the such. They have turned our messes into a chain of McChav.
I am bl**dy sick of the idea of PAYD, as are the vast majority of Livers in, many of whom see this as yet another attack on our standard of living and our way of life. Well mark my words, they will never ever be able to stop any Officer carrying a crate of lager or bottle of their own wine into the bar and consuming it at half of the cost of what it will cost once PAYD not only destroys the dining room, but also the bar as well. Oh yes, before I forget, once PAYD takes over the bar, forget any subsidies towards the summer ball (massive reduction in subsidy if any) and rediculous function prices. This will kill the messes.
Why oh why, seeing the trials at Leuchars and Henlow have not gone swimmingly, have we continued to persue this junk? Or is it due to cost savings the scheme will realize? The original request, as I remember it from the moaners was to have a sheet to sign on a nightly basis to declare whether meals had been taken; NOT for our bar to be robbed and be charged for individual portions of bread, butter and the such. They have turned our messes into a chain of McChav.
Last edited by mbga9pgf; 28th Jul 2005 at 15:29.
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Didn't do an adequate survey..???? are you bonkers? PAYD has been trialed for years. It was first mooted in 1971. Is that not adequate enough for you? It has then been in service and working perfectly since 2002. How much longer would you like?
???? yep, you are bonkers.
PAYD IS NOT the whim of some senior guru looking for promotion. PAYD is being introduced because that is what people want. It is what was asked for.
I am bl**dy sick of the idea of PAYD
PAYD IS NOT the whim of some senior guru looking for promotion. PAYD is being introduced because that is what people want. It is what was asked for.
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.Never would suit me fine. And if its such a popular idea, why are we not being allowed a vote from the mess membership as to its introduction? (typically a 2/3 vote would be required)
Last time I checked, the mess was NON PUBLIC (IE hands off).
Oh yes, tell me, where exactly are business supposed to make profit from such a hair-brained scheme? From charging 5p for a slice of bread, or ramping bar prices to their maximum allowed? I suspect the latter, it is this issue that particularly worries me.
Just so we dont get our wires crossed, I am not talking about supplementary bills for lunches etc, which functions well. I am talking about the farce that is going on in numerous messes as a pre-rollout to some crackpot scheme, including having to swipe cards for your food (silver service?) and being pounced on like a criminal for requesting an extra slice of bread or an item which is not "core menu".
If the survey was carried out as long ago as the'70's, I suggest you check current sentiment, because ffrom as far as I have experienced, there is not exactly a majority supporting this scheme. Furthermore, as it appears you are of the dark blue persuasion, may I suggest that the light blue experience of the scheme may not have been as well recieved.
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Well maybe the minority asked for it, but it is some civil servant jobsworth that is self-justifying their existence by introducing this tosh. And as far I can see, what was asked for is a long way from what we got.
Last time I checked, the mess was NON PUBLIC (IE hands off).
Oh yes, tell me, where exactly are business supposed to make profit from such a hair-brained scheme? From charging 5p for a slice of bread, or ramping bar prices to their maximum allowed? I suspect the latter, it is this issue that particularly worries me.
Just so we dont get our wires crossed, I am not talking about supplementary bills for lunches etc, which functions well. I am talking about the farce that is going on in numerous messes as a pre-rollout to some crackpot scheme, including having to swipe cards for your food (silver service?) and being pounced on like a criminal for requesting an extra slice of bread or an item which is not "core menu".
If the survey was carried out as long ago as the'70's, I suggest you check current sentiment, because ffrom as far as I have experienced, there is not exactly a majority supporting this scheme. Furthermore, as it appears you are of the dark blue persuasion, may I suggest that the light blue experience of the scheme may not have been as well recieved.
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PAYD IS NOT the whim of some senior guru looking for promotion. PAYD is being introduced because that is what people want. It is what was asked for.
Well maybe the minority asked for it, but it is some civil servant jobsworth that is self-justifying their existence by introducing this tosh. And as far I can see, what was asked for is a long way from what we got.
Last edited by mbga9pgf; 28th Jul 2005 at 14:36.
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Working perfectly???
Have you been to Leuchars or Culdrose? Mess life has been destroyed in both places, with people at Culdrose all seeming to eat in the Datum, and at Leuchars in the service station like Cafe behind the mess. Whether people wanted it originally, surely now the truth has been seen its time to abandon what were meant to be experiments and test cases, and go back to the old system.
apologies for spelling as ever.
Have you been to Leuchars or Culdrose? Mess life has been destroyed in both places, with people at Culdrose all seeming to eat in the Datum, and at Leuchars in the service station like Cafe behind the mess. Whether people wanted it originally, surely now the truth has been seen its time to abandon what were meant to be experiments and test cases, and go back to the old system.
apologies for spelling as ever.
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Southside, bonny lad - you mentioned 'moaning' - surely the RN expression is 'dripping' ?
Do you chaps still get bread & dripping sarnies when you go off-watch prior to hot bedding in a warm, smelly cabin?
Have you still got those disgusting "transit cabins" on shore bases for visiting aircrew and VIP's ?
Had a good day at Culdrose in the Wardroom and flying in a Merlin, circa Jun 2000
Do you chaps still get bread & dripping sarnies when you go off-watch prior to hot bedding in a warm, smelly cabin?
Have you still got those disgusting "transit cabins" on shore bases for visiting aircrew and VIP's ?
Had a good day at Culdrose in the Wardroom and flying in a Merlin, circa Jun 2000
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I hate to say it but we did all complain about paying for meals that we were not eating (old system), and to be honest the Culdrose mess had died long before PAYD took over, it was the removal of squadrons and the ‘youth’ wishing to go down town to bars rather than stay for happy hour. Life is changing we cannot just expect everything to stay the same (as much as we would like it to!). Some people said it was the requirement to wear a jacket and tie that is killing the mess, look at all the people who dive in for early meals! PAYD is not perfect but can not be solely blamed for the killing of mess life.
I hate it because I can not pay with my mess number!!!
I hate it because I can not pay with my mess number!!!
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My point is, we asked for a scheme very similar to the one we have already, IE you sign a slip and you can still eat what you want, instead of paying for anything outside of core menu. Instead, someone has seen it as an opportunity to completely mess up the way we live. I certainly have not heard of many complaining about the "old" scheme, and I am fairly new to the services. I really dont think its the "youth" that ARE the problem. I do get the impression that at some stations, for inexplicable reasons, mess life is dead. I would suggest that may be the result of poor ents rather than unfavourability of the old scheme. But back to my other original point, if this IS so popular, why are the messes not allowed a vote as it is such a major change? We vote on everything else. Plus, the messes fall under non-public accounts.
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Here we go again with the endless moaning about PAYD, you might wish to refer to last thread on this. While I agree that it is far from perfect you have to look at it as a whole issue. Prior to implementation of PAYD only 50% of personnel took their meals in Messes. Therefore, 50% of personnel must now be happy with PAYD because they do not have to pay for meals they do not eat. As for the rest, well its a partnership and if your Contractor does not provide what you want, then there is no profit for either side. There needs to be more dialogue from both sides. As a final point, if PAYD is so bad does that mean MACs are good?
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For what it is worth the same issues are being raised at the Green sites as well. Some very senior officers writing to express their displeasure and that of their commands regarding PAYD.
It doesn't mean that because 50% were unhappy with the old arrangments that they will be happy with PAYD. Quite the opposite as I would guage a higher proportion are unhappy with PAYD. A solution was needed but perhaps this is not it. Why could you not just pay for the meals you attended under the original arrangements?
Soldiers are reported to be unable to eat as they spend their money by halfway through the month and I have heard reports of the posibility of malnutrition rearing its head. Bizarre I know. Self discipline, but this is perhaps what some of our younger charges lack in this day and age. Combine this with individual rooms and the lads are no looking after each other as a team and tend to operate in social isolation that can lead to this situation.
HEDP
It doesn't mean that because 50% were unhappy with the old arrangments that they will be happy with PAYD. Quite the opposite as I would guage a higher proportion are unhappy with PAYD. A solution was needed but perhaps this is not it. Why could you not just pay for the meals you attended under the original arrangements?
Soldiers are reported to be unable to eat as they spend their money by halfway through the month and I have heard reports of the posibility of malnutrition rearing its head. Bizarre I know. Self discipline, but this is perhaps what some of our younger charges lack in this day and age. Combine this with individual rooms and the lads are no looking after each other as a team and tend to operate in social isolation that can lead to this situation.
HEDP
Last week I was on a course at RN establishment, and ate in a galley where visiting personnel simply entered their details (name, rate, service number, unit etc) and ticked which meals they took there. Surely this sort of arrangement would prevent people from being billed for meals they don't attend?
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Exactly WEBF,
And that is why I cannot see the problem with PAYD.
Sure, a few hardcore mess enthusiasts who eat 3 meals a day in there every day might complain, but the VAST MAJORITY, including myself when I lived in the mess, resent paying for meals that we do not eat.
Why should people pay good money for a meal on friday night that they are not eating. Three meals on Saturday that are not being eaten, and then three further meals on Sunday that they do not eat?
mbga9pgf,
If you really do want to eat a Silver Service meat and vegetable meal every single night of the week, may I be the first to suggest that there may be something wrong with you? Me, and most of the people I work with, fancy from time to time a curry, a kebab(Pardon me) a chinese etc.... and would appreciate not having to pay for a meal in the mess at the same time.
Yes I appreciate that prices in the bar may go up slightly, but is that not a small price to pay for not being charged for all those meals that we are not eating in the mess?
Especially seeing as you so angrily state that "You will never stop an Officer from bringing his own crate of lager/Bottle of wine into the mess?"
Unfortunately this is not the RAF of the 1960's and as Southside correctly stated, People have asked for PAYD, and the people that have asked for it have by far and away outweighed the moaning lifelong mess members such as yourself
Of course, you're probably a really funny "out there" guy really
And that is why I cannot see the problem with PAYD.
Sure, a few hardcore mess enthusiasts who eat 3 meals a day in there every day might complain, but the VAST MAJORITY, including myself when I lived in the mess, resent paying for meals that we do not eat.
Why should people pay good money for a meal on friday night that they are not eating. Three meals on Saturday that are not being eaten, and then three further meals on Sunday that they do not eat?
mbga9pgf,
If you really do want to eat a Silver Service meat and vegetable meal every single night of the week, may I be the first to suggest that there may be something wrong with you? Me, and most of the people I work with, fancy from time to time a curry, a kebab(Pardon me) a chinese etc.... and would appreciate not having to pay for a meal in the mess at the same time.
Yes I appreciate that prices in the bar may go up slightly, but is that not a small price to pay for not being charged for all those meals that we are not eating in the mess?
Especially seeing as you so angrily state that "You will never stop an Officer from bringing his own crate of lager/Bottle of wine into the mess?"
Unfortunately this is not the RAF of the 1960's and as Southside correctly stated, People have asked for PAYD, and the people that have asked for it have by far and away outweighed the moaning lifelong mess members such as yourself
Of course, you're probably a really funny "out there" guy really
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It has then been in service and working perfectly since 2002.
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The idea of PAYD is great, but the way they've implemented it is absolutely terrible.
If you paid for your meal, and then where able to eat/drink as much as before then I think most of the arguments would dissappear. The problem is that the contractors have taken PAYD to mean every constituent part of the meal, ie each rasher of bacon/sausage/glass of OJ for breakfast, as a chargable item. With smaller portions being served you need to add extra items at 7 or 8p a shot to make the meal what it used to be. That seems small, but quickly builds up over time and means an increase in what we spend (if we use the mess for every meal).
If its just treated as a restaurant then the system works great, but isnt the mess meant to be home and not a hotel?
If you paid for your meal, and then where able to eat/drink as much as before then I think most of the arguments would dissappear. The problem is that the contractors have taken PAYD to mean every constituent part of the meal, ie each rasher of bacon/sausage/glass of OJ for breakfast, as a chargable item. With smaller portions being served you need to add extra items at 7 or 8p a shot to make the meal what it used to be. That seems small, but quickly builds up over time and means an increase in what we spend (if we use the mess for every meal).
If its just treated as a restaurant then the system works great, but isnt the mess meant to be home and not a hotel?
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After a nice stay at RAF Halton recently, PAYD has already eroded all mess atmosphere that was left. All people do is moan about it. In principle PAYD is a good idea, but the grey areas don't seem to have been looked at. I agree with some of the posts here that Summer Balls etc.. will have to find money from other sources. As for the big Stns, Brize Norton and the majority of RAF bases have had PAYD for lunch for years. There was no problem. I have heard (correct me if I am wrong) but total PAYD at Brize has been looked at, but shelved, as the company wanted to run the bars as well. This obviously meant all Sqn bars would have to close!! Yeah right, they wound just go under ground. In the end I hope PAYD falls flat on its Ar$e, as a liver in, I like the atmosphere at the mo, I believe total PAYD would destroy that!!! 
