Growbags on ground-tours?
This type of thread crops up regularly on PPrune and is invariably populated either by pillocks declaring how important they are in relation to mere "blunties" or by ground-pounders clearly envious of their aircrew bretheren.
Is it jolly banter or is it purile nonsense? My vote goes for the latter. I don't give a rat's goolies what you want to wear to work, just for God's sake be effective when you're there (something which those prima donnas on both sides probably fail to be).
Is it jolly banter or is it purile nonsense? My vote goes for the latter. I don't give a rat's goolies what you want to wear to work, just for God's sake be effective when you're there (something which those prima donnas on both sides probably fail to be).
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In many cases, the wearing of flying suits has practical benefits also. For instance, if deployed to work at a CAOC, individuals can immediately see what you fly without having to ask 'are you the AWACS rep?' Additionally, when working with the Spams, unless you ARE in a growbag - rightly or wrongly - you are assumed NOT to be aircrew. Likewise, although we rip the pi$$ out of them, when you walk into AWC to discuss (for example) Harrier CAS, you can immediately see who to talk to.
As far as the leather jacket goes, why the hell aren't we allowed to wear it with blues?! It looks very smart with blues (certainly a lot smarter than that cheap, tacky blue thing), and is comfortable and practical in most weathers.
If non aircrew don't like the idea of only aircrew being allowed to wear leather jackets then let them have one but obviously without the brevet.
Regards,
MM
As far as the leather jacket goes, why the hell aren't we allowed to wear it with blues?! It looks very smart with blues (certainly a lot smarter than that cheap, tacky blue thing), and is comfortable and practical in most weathers.
If non aircrew don't like the idea of only aircrew being allowed to wear leather jackets then let them have one but obviously without the brevet.
Regards,
MM
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Feel a bit self-conscious replying to this thread as it really doesn't affect the price of monkeys.
However my attitude to it is; if your on the ground as aircrew in a flying related job/task (S Nav O, CAOC, Flying display coordinator etc) then it is highly appropriate to wear your flying suit.
Throughout the history of uniformed forces, the recognisability of your function in life by the manner of your uniform has been an important and practical issue, eg red flashes and cap-bands for army staff officers, white caps for the scuffers and so on.
However if theres no good reason for wearing your green bag then it's time to raid your loft insultion.
However my attitude to it is; if your on the ground as aircrew in a flying related job/task (S Nav O, CAOC, Flying display coordinator etc) then it is highly appropriate to wear your flying suit.
Throughout the history of uniformed forces, the recognisability of your function in life by the manner of your uniform has been an important and practical issue, eg red flashes and cap-bands for army staff officers, white caps for the scuffers and so on.
However if theres no good reason for wearing your green bag then it's time to raid your loft insultion.
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I do hope you get the metal pin badges so like me you can spend that extra 5 mins in the morning putting your shirt together quite hard with the DT's. Plus the blunties will need a badge to say the are deployable thus then important
.
But then I can wear my shirt without the gortex/fleece.
Blues are for girls and the queers in the rear with the gear, go on what you got?????
Charlie sends
.But then I can wear my shirt without the gortex/fleece.
Blues are for girls and the queers in the rear with the gear, go on what you got?????
Charlie sends
Clime Bear
I do believe you were serious!!
Must have been a slow flying day where you work, bad weather?
Blunties area part of RAF history and are the grease for the machine. If you seriously think that the Senior Ranks retain their pilot attitude after such a long period away from the cockpit and they have a clue as to what they sign when it's pushed in front of them, then you just need to see the state of the RAF as it is today to realise that you may be taking this thread a tad too seriously!
Safe flying
I do believe you were serious!!
Must have been a slow flying day where you work, bad weather?
Blunties area part of RAF history and are the grease for the machine. If you seriously think that the Senior Ranks retain their pilot attitude after such a long period away from the cockpit and they have a clue as to what they sign when it's pushed in front of them, then you just need to see the state of the RAF as it is today to realise that you may be taking this thread a tad too seriously!
Safe flying
I see myself as a pilot on a very, very, very loooong ground tour......
I now have to wear blues/CS95 as daily working dress. Of course I would love to wear a grobag every day and if asked, my boss might even let me, but I do not because:
1. I no longer fly routinely,
2. If I did, the other aircrew would banter me mercilessly.
I have met many aircrew around the RAF and Navy who have absolutely no chance of flying during the day, don't need to have their ac type identified, but still wear grobags.... and I understand it completely: BECAUSE IT IS COMFORTABLE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO IRON IT OR BULL YOUR BOOTS!
Fair play to them!
(But all AAC pilots I have met wear CS95... discuss!)
I now have to wear blues/CS95 as daily working dress. Of course I would love to wear a grobag every day and if asked, my boss might even let me, but I do not because:
1. I no longer fly routinely,
2. If I did, the other aircrew would banter me mercilessly.
I have met many aircrew around the RAF and Navy who have absolutely no chance of flying during the day, don't need to have their ac type identified, but still wear grobags.... and I understand it completely: BECAUSE IT IS COMFORTABLE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO IRON IT OR BULL YOUR BOOTS!
Fair play to them!
(But all AAC pilots I have met wear CS95... discuss!)
But all AAC pilots I have met wear CS95... discuss!
Second class dress for second class Aircrew, seems ok to me!.
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EESDL
The problem is that some hig ranking aviators think they understand what is put in front of them. Which is understandable because they were selected for their superb hand-eye cordination and other aviator attributes which automatically means they have a great insight into the domain of the other (non-flying) professional branches. Therefore, they try to alter some of it thereby ignoring stacks of work by their staff officers who do know what they are talking about.
Remember, these people came from the same crewrooms you now inhabit. Look around you, will the next generation be any better? And, do you think their airships said the same when they resided in sqn crewrooms of (not so) old.
The problem is that some hig ranking aviators think they understand what is put in front of them. Which is understandable because they were selected for their superb hand-eye cordination and other aviator attributes which automatically means they have a great insight into the domain of the other (non-flying) professional branches. Therefore, they try to alter some of it thereby ignoring stacks of work by their staff officers who do know what they are talking about.
Remember, these people came from the same crewrooms you now inhabit. Look around you, will the next generation be any better? And, do you think their airships said the same when they resided in sqn crewrooms of (not so) old.
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Young Albert,
Check the 'Fighter Controllers - Know Your Place' thread.
You're playing right into our hands, mate. Go on, bog off down route, have your stopovers in the sun, squander your rates on wine, women and skank, then come home and find the mess overflowing with FCs.
If you're too important to work on the ground, I know people who aren't!
Regards
BM
Check the 'Fighter Controllers - Know Your Place' thread.
You're playing right into our hands, mate. Go on, bog off down route, have your stopovers in the sun, squander your rates on wine, women and skank, then come home and find the mess overflowing with FCs.
If you're too important to work on the ground, I know people who aren't!
Regards
BM
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Bunker Mentality
If the FC's are making a bid to take over the world they have missed the boat. The RAF Regt are streaks ahead of you guys. The formation of the OSB was just part of their cunning masterplan. Far more RAF Regt on ACSC than FC types.
First they take over Air Officer Administration, it will be supply next, then engineering, then.... (ah FOAS could be unmanned, therefore it's like a rapier, therefore the RAF Regt can fly it). The (RAF Regt) Empire strikes back!
(And no, I am not one of them)
If the FC's are making a bid to take over the world they have missed the boat. The RAF Regt are streaks ahead of you guys. The formation of the OSB was just part of their cunning masterplan. Far more RAF Regt on ACSC than FC types.
First they take over Air Officer Administration, it will be supply next, then engineering, then.... (ah FOAS could be unmanned, therefore it's like a rapier, therefore the RAF Regt can fly it). The (RAF Regt) Empire strikes back!
(And no, I am not one of them)
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One reason not to wear growbags on the ground:
At a top-secret bunker located under a prime slice of National Trust land, there resided certain officers of other nations who had the unsurpassed honour of working in the UK amongst the finest equipped air force in the world!
One of these fellows had flown aircraft at some point and, being Teutonic, clearly had a taste for the bacon and sausages that was the staple mid-morning output of the feeder. In fact he enjoyed his food so much that the belly went outwards, straining against the fabric of the flying suit. Worst of all, the gut-induced strain caused the bottom of his trousers to rise above his boot-tops.
The combination of wedgewood blue shirt, trousers No 2 and stable belt is far more flattering to the fuller figure.
I agree that brevets and other significant badges should be worn in shirt-sleeves, perhaps as enamel badges. It would save sweating in a breveted wooly pully at the height of summer on a ground tour!
At a top-secret bunker located under a prime slice of National Trust land, there resided certain officers of other nations who had the unsurpassed honour of working in the UK amongst the finest equipped air force in the world!
One of these fellows had flown aircraft at some point and, being Teutonic, clearly had a taste for the bacon and sausages that was the staple mid-morning output of the feeder. In fact he enjoyed his food so much that the belly went outwards, straining against the fabric of the flying suit. Worst of all, the gut-induced strain caused the bottom of his trousers to rise above his boot-tops.
The combination of wedgewood blue shirt, trousers No 2 and stable belt is far more flattering to the fuller figure.
I agree that brevets and other significant badges should be worn in shirt-sleeves, perhaps as enamel badges. It would save sweating in a breveted wooly pully at the height of summer on a ground tour!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I wear blues. I have always worn blues on ground tours and even at Nav School when not rescheduled to fly. To resolve the going home issue to get my kit, I kept a spare set at work!
Now, to my chagrin I am told I may have to wear CS95. Do I wear a brevet?
I still have a metal Nav brevet I acquired in NZ. They, and the OZ both wear natty metal badges with their shirts.
Now, to my chagrin I am told I may have to wear CS95. Do I wear a brevet?
I still have a metal Nav brevet I acquired in NZ. They, and the OZ both wear natty metal badges with their shirts.
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Jeeze! Doesn't EESDL realise that without a 'Royal GROUND Force', as he put it, he wouldn't have got in the air.
Us 'groundies' fully appreciate our role is to support the delivery of Air power. It may not be as 'sexy' as you guys doing the flying but can be every bit as important.
EESDL. your arrogance, demeans those have spent their whole career enabling you and your flying colleages to do your job.
Fortunately, there are enough aircrew who do appreciate the value of what we do. Whether we are providing you with a recogised air picture, talkdown, a travel claim or a flying suit, you'd be lost without us.
As for when you should be allowed to wear your flying suit, I don't care. I'm glad you feel you've earned that right, good luck to you. We on the ground have also earned rights; the right to be valued for the work we do; the training we've had to go through (I can name a number of grounded aircrew who have struggled to qualify as a Weapons Controller!) and the right to be regarded as an integral part of the RAF.
Us 'groundies' fully appreciate our role is to support the delivery of Air power. It may not be as 'sexy' as you guys doing the flying but can be every bit as important.
EESDL. your arrogance, demeans those have spent their whole career enabling you and your flying colleages to do your job.
Fortunately, there are enough aircrew who do appreciate the value of what we do. Whether we are providing you with a recogised air picture, talkdown, a travel claim or a flying suit, you'd be lost without us.
As for when you should be allowed to wear your flying suit, I don't care. I'm glad you feel you've earned that right, good luck to you. We on the ground have also earned rights; the right to be valued for the work we do; the training we've had to go through (I can name a number of grounded aircrew who have struggled to qualify as a Weapons Controller!) and the right to be regarded as an integral part of the RAF.
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i am proud to be a pilot in the RAF
I once sat in on a committee meeting and the subject of flying clothing came up... in particular the introduction of a set of tailored flying overalls... without too many pockets, unslightly attachements, knives etc... for every day wear around the station when NOT flying, because the standard issues ovvies were too scruffy. I am pelased to say the Chair... a flier... shot that one down without further debate.
Second dit. OC OPs arrives in Control Tower to meet some visitors, dressed in flying overalls... and remarks "I didn't want our visitors to think I was some sort of numpty" A quick witted SNCO nearby replied "Good god sir no... you wouldn't want them to think you're an Trafficker would you?"
Oh how ironic... I couldn't have picked a better word than "numpty"... proud or otherwise!
Huge Forkbender
Didn't mean to offend - have re-read my posts and cannot see any signs of arrogance seeping in - but always glad to be put right......
It appears you may have a slight chip there old boy! Guess you should have tried harder at school and then, you too, could be revered and admired by all that gaze upon your form as you slide through the bar, with a trail of (female) weak-knee'd air traffickers following at a polite distance behind your slightly 'humming' flying suit.
'Blunty' is a proud, traditional term, dating back to the days of Trenchard. It fully acknowledges that 'Blunties' don't just lose your 1771.
Have done a wide variety of jobs, working with many different branches at many different levels in many different theatres under many different conditions and am well aware of the essential importance of the input of each and everybody, you sanctimonious fool. Don't even feel the need to mention what weapons my nose has been pointing down the other end of (climebear) - just assumed every single member of the Armed Forces would do what they signed on the dotted line for - otherwise I was told that you'd be called a deserter and that is really bad for a pudding lover.
Wouldn't have bothered responding on such a lovely day but killing time inbetween eng runs.
OK, you've got me, insisted on wearing flying suit because I couldn't have the daily help ironing my 'blues' and putting tramlines down the sleeves!
Didn't mean to offend - have re-read my posts and cannot see any signs of arrogance seeping in - but always glad to be put right......
It appears you may have a slight chip there old boy! Guess you should have tried harder at school and then, you too, could be revered and admired by all that gaze upon your form as you slide through the bar, with a trail of (female) weak-knee'd air traffickers following at a polite distance behind your slightly 'humming' flying suit.
'Blunty' is a proud, traditional term, dating back to the days of Trenchard. It fully acknowledges that 'Blunties' don't just lose your 1771.
Have done a wide variety of jobs, working with many different branches at many different levels in many different theatres under many different conditions and am well aware of the essential importance of the input of each and everybody, you sanctimonious fool. Don't even feel the need to mention what weapons my nose has been pointing down the other end of (climebear) - just assumed every single member of the Armed Forces would do what they signed on the dotted line for - otherwise I was told that you'd be called a deserter and that is really bad for a pudding lover.
Wouldn't have bothered responding on such a lovely day but killing time inbetween eng runs.
OK, you've got me, insisted on wearing flying suit because I couldn't have the daily help ironing my 'blues' and putting tramlines down the sleeves!
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EESDL,
OK, I've re-read my notice and yep, in hindsight, sounds pretty sanctimonious to me aswell.
Been having a bad day. Thanks for the reality check.
Fully accept you not finding your comment arrogant.
Wouldn't have expected anything different!
OK, I've re-read my notice and yep, in hindsight, sounds pretty sanctimonious to me aswell.
Been having a bad day. Thanks for the reality check.
Fully accept you not finding your comment arrogant.
Wouldn't have expected anything different!
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What a great thread...but don't we hear this sort of stuff everyday at work? Needless to say, I can't help but bite at a good bit of banter, so here goes....
Vim_Fuego
Good God, I know you guys love flying (and yes I admit I am sometimes jealous of your job) but I had no idea that you do it for free! Send me your address and I'll order a locker and coat stand to hang your alternative clothing on.
Climebear
Excellent observation, no doubt it should also include some form of headdress, unlike the pilot I spotted in Dundee the other day. I might decide to wear my No1 uniform next week - I'm on leave, but my mum's so proud of my medal...
EESDL
Hooray! you win first prize for the best RAFism on the thread. A brilliant retort that can be used for any arguement. If anything, it demonstrates your unquestionable bravery - you tried hard at school, it all paid off and you get to fly around in a machine maintained by those who you deem academically inferior to you! My hero
Don't worry, I won't come out with the old cliche that you can put a monkey into space, but he can't fix the rocket when it comes back! (
I just did, I should have paid more attention again.....)
Banter's great.
Vim_Fuego
if I was to rock up on a day I was'nt down on the program to fly, wearing my freshly laundered and pressed no.2's, 80% of the time I would be driving back home within the hour to get into flying kit to fill in for the short fall of people at this cold, well to the North airbase.
Climebear
To be pedantic there is a difference, coveralls are not a order of uniform - flying suits are - no14 dress if my very trivial memory serves me correctly.
EESDL
you should have tried harder at school
Don't worry, I won't come out with the old cliche that you can put a monkey into space, but he can't fix the rocket when it comes back! ( I just did, I should have paid more attention again.....)Banter's great.
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<If an aircrew guys simply takes his 'coverall' off he will be walking around in long-johns and green roll-neck!>
Take 'em off boys, that's what I say!!
Well, apart from the rather larger than life truckie boys who have made a bit too much use of the on-board catering facilities!!!
Take 'em off boys, that's what I say!!
Well, apart from the rather larger than life truckie boys who have made a bit too much use of the on-board catering facilities!!!