New Pension Scheme
Not sure what all this P-M'ing is covering but I'm PAS and my transfer offer illustration does not show the level of pension at 55 that I expected and it is nowhere near the pension calculator figure.
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Background Noise
My post above concerns exactly the same problem. I spoke to the OTT service centre about it today. They said that the pension illustration is based on retiring at 55 but on my current (Apr 05 when they did the sums) PAS level. Clearly this makes no sense at all. In my case a 43 year old on PAS level 24 - how could I possibly retire at 55 still on PAS level 24? I couldn't unless I was assessed as well below average for the next 12 years and hence didn't get the annual PAS pay increment.
I also asked about the assumptions behind the AFPS 75 illustration. I think that is based on the representative rank related pension plus the PAS supplement.
The result is at first glance I seem to be better off under AFPS 75, but after doing the sums I am actually better off under AFPS 05 to the tune of 4000 pa (assuming I retire on PAS level 35).
I can only conclude that the offer to transfer personal benefit statement is at best confusing and at worst down right misleading
Flo
My post above concerns exactly the same problem. I spoke to the OTT service centre about it today. They said that the pension illustration is based on retiring at 55 but on my current (Apr 05 when they did the sums) PAS level. Clearly this makes no sense at all. In my case a 43 year old on PAS level 24 - how could I possibly retire at 55 still on PAS level 24? I couldn't unless I was assessed as well below average for the next 12 years and hence didn't get the annual PAS pay increment.
I also asked about the assumptions behind the AFPS 75 illustration. I think that is based on the representative rank related pension plus the PAS supplement.
The result is at first glance I seem to be better off under AFPS 75, but after doing the sums I am actually better off under AFPS 05 to the tune of 4000 pa (assuming I retire on PAS level 35).
I can only conclude that the offer to transfer personal benefit statement is at best confusing and at worst down right misleading
Flo
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Pension Calculator Error Alert
All will now be revealed.
Down4Reprogram has found an apparent error in the calculator when handling AFPS75 PAS calculations for RAF Flt Lts (apparently pilots, navs and rear crew). Based on the figures he passed to me, I have confirmed that he correctly entered figures for a Flt Lt, assimilating to PAS at the 38/16 point, and serving to 55 (as a Navigator). The figures produced by the calculator seem to indicate that it had applied the wrong look-up table, calculating his AFPS75 PAS pension enhancement at the Army "Specialist Aircrew" daily rate, instead of the appropriate Flt Lt PAS rate. The calculated total was therefore a considerable under-estimate. He reports that this error also appears to occur for Flt Lt PAS pilots and rear crew (I have not yet checked this). The clue was in the labelling of the forecast for the expected rank at retirement, which was given as "OF2SPECAIR". The calculations that I had run for Sqn Ldr PAS were correct, and were labelled only "OF3". If you have run similar forecasts, check the labelling. For reference, for 34 years reckonable service in AFPS75, with 17 years as a PAS Navigator, the total pension should read approx £29,318 (£23,982 basic plus £5,536 enhancement), with a lump sum of £88,554.
Ginseng
Down4Reprogram has found an apparent error in the calculator when handling AFPS75 PAS calculations for RAF Flt Lts (apparently pilots, navs and rear crew). Based on the figures he passed to me, I have confirmed that he correctly entered figures for a Flt Lt, assimilating to PAS at the 38/16 point, and serving to 55 (as a Navigator). The figures produced by the calculator seem to indicate that it had applied the wrong look-up table, calculating his AFPS75 PAS pension enhancement at the Army "Specialist Aircrew" daily rate, instead of the appropriate Flt Lt PAS rate. The calculated total was therefore a considerable under-estimate. He reports that this error also appears to occur for Flt Lt PAS pilots and rear crew (I have not yet checked this). The clue was in the labelling of the forecast for the expected rank at retirement, which was given as "OF2SPECAIR". The calculations that I had run for Sqn Ldr PAS were correct, and were labelled only "OF3". If you have run similar forecasts, check the labelling. For reference, for 34 years reckonable service in AFPS75, with 17 years as a PAS Navigator, the total pension should read approx £29,318 (£23,982 basic plus £5,536 enhancement), with a lump sum of £88,554.
Ginseng
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Axial Flo, Background Noise
What you say about the Personal Forecasts now makes sense. They are clearly calculated on your current pay/representative pay levels but projected forward to the reckonable service you would have if retiring at 55 from that level. OK for a first order comparison between the two schemes, but ridiculously misleading as to your actual pension calculation at 55, even accepting that they can only be made at 2005 rates. I can see some scenarios where this would distort the true comparison between the schemes at that point. The moral is: proceed with great care and check by hand if you can. As we have just seen, even the calculator contains at least one serious bug, and there could be more yet.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
TAC Int Bloke
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There is a real push for the new scheme. Everyone, and I mean everyone, on the station HAS to see the presentation - even those of us who are ineligible because we're out soon – so I have to waste an hour of my life on something that has no relevance to me. Not for the first time, obviously, but I'm curious, why the compulsory brainwashing? Is it all a treasury lead plot to rob us of our rightful reward(s)? Or just bad man-management?
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Maple 01
Are you leaving before 6 Apr 06? If not, then you are eligible. I don't think there is any plot. More likely, your local management are very keen not to be accused later of having left anyone out. I can't blame them for that.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
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Automatic Extension of terms of service
I recently ran through the pension calculator and ran into a statement that would automatically extend my terms of service if I opted for AFPS05.
I reach my 38/16 point in Aug 2010 and having served less than 18 years I would be daft to transfer onto AFPS05. However, on reading the definition of EDP, I discovered that it states:
"If your current terms end at the earlier of age 37 (38) or 16 years service, you will automatically be given the opportunity to complete additional service to the new 18/40 point if and when you transfer to AFPS05 terms."
Having not noticed this anywhere else in the literature I ran the OTT people to clarify this point. They were also unaware or where this was clarified! The best they could offer was that I make sure that if I transfer I should ensure I get the offer to extend from my Desk Officer.
Can anyone help me out on this point, is it pukker gen?
Also, I am keen to be assimilated and two extra ACR's may help, however, even serving 18 years and retiring on AFPS05 this would apparently (according to the pension calculator) leave me a lot less well off in pension payments.
Many Thanks
WTN
I reach my 38/16 point in Aug 2010 and having served less than 18 years I would be daft to transfer onto AFPS05. However, on reading the definition of EDP, I discovered that it states:
"If your current terms end at the earlier of age 37 (38) or 16 years service, you will automatically be given the opportunity to complete additional service to the new 18/40 point if and when you transfer to AFPS05 terms."
Having not noticed this anywhere else in the literature I ran the OTT people to clarify this point. They were also unaware or where this was clarified! The best they could offer was that I make sure that if I transfer I should ensure I get the offer to extend from my Desk Officer.
Can anyone help me out on this point, is it pukker gen?
Also, I am keen to be assimilated and two extra ACR's may help, however, even serving 18 years and retiring on AFPS05 this would apparently (according to the pension calculator) leave me a lot less well off in pension payments.
Many Thanks
WTN
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Got my offer to transfer in the post this morning.
Im stuffed.
Why? Because I have 18 months to do with no offer of PA.
So I have to stay on 75.
However, My bosses reckon I will be offered PA in Nov when the board sits (Now I see why they have delayed the PA board this year).
So I have to choose 75 or Im stuffed if I dont get PA.
And if I get PA then Im stuck on 75 rather than the better 05 when I serve to 55.
Bugger!
Im stuffed.
Why? Because I have 18 months to do with no offer of PA.
So I have to stay on 75.
However, My bosses reckon I will be offered PA in Nov when the board sits (Now I see why they have delayed the PA board this year).
So I have to choose 75 or Im stuffed if I dont get PA.
And if I get PA then Im stuck on 75 rather than the better 05 when I serve to 55.
Bugger!
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Well Travelled Nav
It is pukka.
Those on a 16yr/38 type commission will automatically be extended in service to 18yr/40 type commission should they opt into AFPS 05. So the upside is 2 more years work, the downside is that in most cases you still wont get as much had you left at age 38 on AFPS 75.
HTH
Oggin
Those on a 16yr/38 type commission will automatically be extended in service to 18yr/40 type commission should they opt into AFPS 05. So the upside is 2 more years work, the downside is that in most cases you still wont get as much had you left at age 38 on AFPS 75.
HTH
Oggin
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Jambo
Jambo,
I would seek an extension to your offer acceptance date if I were you. They are expecting a lot of returns beyond the 3 month period due to OOA commitments and one or two other reasons. They should accept that your concerns are genuine and that there is a definite date (PAS Board) in the near future when you can make a properly considered decision.
Best of luck
I would seek an extension to your offer acceptance date if I were you. They are expecting a lot of returns beyond the 3 month period due to OOA commitments and one or two other reasons. They should accept that your concerns are genuine and that there is a definite date (PAS Board) in the near future when you can make a properly considered decision.
Best of luck
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A major change to your possible future pension and cashflow after a lifetime of service.
An online calculator that has flaws. An advice package that doesn't even try to look beyond your present salary level. An admin empire that will have great problems sorting out real advice for you.
A possibility of another change in the near future.
Never mind, read the possibly flawed advice and make your decision. Get it wrong and tough, you cannot change, it's your fault, you made the decision.
Man management????? It makes you want to weep.
An online calculator that has flaws. An advice package that doesn't even try to look beyond your present salary level. An admin empire that will have great problems sorting out real advice for you.
A possibility of another change in the near future.
Never mind, read the possibly flawed advice and make your decision. Get it wrong and tough, you cannot change, it's your fault, you made the decision.
Man management????? It makes you want to weep.
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Jambo Jet
Is it true that the PAS selection board has been defered to later than the normal date this year? If it is, then I think that's disgraceful at such a critical phase of the OTT process, and highly suspicious. I think DPHs suggestion is sound, although I'm not sure they will play ball, although they should (in my opinion).
I'll be out of circulation for a couple of weeks now. Duty Calls. Best of luck to you all in the meantime. Perhaps by the time I'm back they will have fixed the calculator. Who knows?
Regards
Ginseng
I'll be out of circulation for a couple of weeks now. Duty Calls. Best of luck to you all in the meantime. Perhaps by the time I'm back they will have fixed the calculator. Who knows?
Regards
Ginseng
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Just this once...
I haven't checked the rest of your figures yet, but note that the online calculator seems to underestimate the PA pension under AFPS75 for Flt Lts if you PVR as well as if you stay to 55.
As far as I can tell Pilots/WSO(N)/Rearcrew Flt Lt's need to add 33.7p for each day they are on the PAS to the AFPS75 figures given. That equates to an extra £2091 pension if you stay to from 38 to 55. The PAS Sqn Ldr figures appear correct to me. I haven't checked the figures for NCA as there is no lower Spec Aircrew equivalent. The AFPS05 figures also look OK to me.
IMHO the PBS is good for ground trades, where there is little difference in the AFPS75/AFPS05 comparison between say a Flt Lt Level 6 and a Flt Lt Level 9. My own PBS shows a comparison based on standard Flt Lt Level 9, when in fact I would retire on PAS Level 30 making a huge difference in pensions etc. I suggest you look carefully at the figures yourself and try and decode exactly what it means to you. Personally I have written a spreadsheet to do the hard sums. A couple of people have asked me for a copy, but it quickly became apparent that there are wide variations in requirements - what if you have previous service to take into account, or joined the PAS later than 38 etc? So in effect it is unfortunately down to you to do the donkey work and sort out what is best for you and your family.
If you are still confused then why not speak to your "unit administrative staff" or the OTT desk, as recommended in your OTT pack up, to see if they can sort out these problems or even better sort out the errors in the calculator.
Good luck.
D4R
I haven't checked the rest of your figures yet, but note that the online calculator seems to underestimate the PA pension under AFPS75 for Flt Lts if you PVR as well as if you stay to 55.
As far as I can tell Pilots/WSO(N)/Rearcrew Flt Lt's need to add 33.7p for each day they are on the PAS to the AFPS75 figures given. That equates to an extra £2091 pension if you stay to from 38 to 55. The PAS Sqn Ldr figures appear correct to me. I haven't checked the figures for NCA as there is no lower Spec Aircrew equivalent. The AFPS05 figures also look OK to me.
IMHO the PBS is good for ground trades, where there is little difference in the AFPS75/AFPS05 comparison between say a Flt Lt Level 6 and a Flt Lt Level 9. My own PBS shows a comparison based on standard Flt Lt Level 9, when in fact I would retire on PAS Level 30 making a huge difference in pensions etc. I suggest you look carefully at the figures yourself and try and decode exactly what it means to you. Personally I have written a spreadsheet to do the hard sums. A couple of people have asked me for a copy, but it quickly became apparent that there are wide variations in requirements - what if you have previous service to take into account, or joined the PAS later than 38 etc? So in effect it is unfortunately down to you to do the donkey work and sort out what is best for you and your family.
If you are still confused then why not speak to your "unit administrative staff" or the OTT desk, as recommended in your OTT pack up, to see if they can sort out these problems or even better sort out the errors in the calculator.
Good luck.
D4R
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So, the calculator underestimates some PAS AFPS05 pensions? Why am I not too surprised!
Another dark thought just occured to me. The Armed Forces Pay Review Body routinely take pension arrangements into consideration when setting rates of pay. I wonder how they will react to a vastly improved pension situation for aircrew in the PAS? Once most PAS aircrew have signed up for AFSP05, a reduction in PAS pay might really hurt!
Another dark thought just occured to me. The Armed Forces Pay Review Body routinely take pension arrangements into consideration when setting rates of pay. I wonder how they will react to a vastly improved pension situation for aircrew in the PAS? Once most PAS aircrew have signed up for AFSP05, a reduction in PAS pay might really hurt!
Two things: I am beginning to smell a rat as EVERYONE seems be pushing us to transfer to 05-why?
Secondly, I got my personal predictions thru from the OTT lot and they had failed to fill in the "Specialist Aircrew" at line 3 under "rank" ie it was left blank. (I think this only affects the calculations though for the 75 scheme). So I rang them up to be told quote "does this matter-will this change the calculations?"
Are these the "experts" who we are relying on to enable us to make an informed choice-I am flabbergasted frankly and have no faith in their competence. Anyone else out there who has had this ommission?
Secondly, I got my personal predictions thru from the OTT lot and they had failed to fill in the "Specialist Aircrew" at line 3 under "rank" ie it was left blank. (I think this only affects the calculations though for the 75 scheme). So I rang them up to be told quote "does this matter-will this change the calculations?"
Are these the "experts" who we are relying on to enable us to make an informed choice-I am flabbergasted frankly and have no faith in their competence. Anyone else out there who has had this ommission?
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When the calculator had first come out, I did a number of calculations using it for differing times/ranks etc. I didn't read them i detail at the time just printed them off. A few days later I checked through them and I had enterred the same data twice on two examples. I cecked and rechecked the data enterred on the printout and they were identical, yet the pensions differed considerably. (I got other people to ceck to make sure I was not being dull and missing something.)
I wouldn't trust the calculator as it seems to give inconsistant readings, but it really is no contest anyway as AFPS 05 will probably disadvantage you in most cases if you leave before 55. It will in mine.
GB2
I wouldn't trust the calculator as it seems to give inconsistant readings, but it really is no contest anyway as AFPS 05 will probably disadvantage you in most cases if you leave before 55. It will in mine.
GB2
Blame My Parrot
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A further fly in the ointment may be the possibility (according to today's BBC News) that HMG may, in the future, extend the Public Sector retirement age to 67 - thus delaying further the receipt of 2nd EDP and restoration of full pension for those on AFPS 05 who leave before 55. For consideration maybe?
VG
VG