RAF AT fleet, cx this out!
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I tip my hat to the '10 crew back in '96 who were bringing me and 6 other TSW lads back to the UK from Bosnia. We had to stop on the way back at Hamburg to drop off a load of squaddies.
As us 7 lads (the only ones going back to BZN) sat in the 'limbo' lounge waiting to re-board the a/c one of the crew (a Sqn Ldr, so I think he was the Captain) came wandering up from duty-free with a trolley laden with cases of beer, two of with he gave to us with a wink and said "for the flight back".
He didn't have to do it, it was against the rules but he did do it.
Top bloke, made flying backwards a pleasure not a chore.
I think this has been mentioned before, they have no choice of what they wear. As for the over-plump bit you'll have to blame the touchy feely RAF for not making people stay fit and the current low morale which doesn't really encourage anyone to take pride in their ability to be 'fit to fight'.
As us 7 lads (the only ones going back to BZN) sat in the 'limbo' lounge waiting to re-board the a/c one of the crew (a Sqn Ldr, so I think he was the Captain) came wandering up from duty-free with a trolley laden with cases of beer, two of with he gave to us with a wink and said "for the flight back".
He didn't have to do it, it was against the rules but he did do it.
Top bloke, made flying backwards a pleasure not a chore.
And shouldn't all those over-plump stewards and stewardesses donate their desert flying suits to those who need them?
November4
Sorry, I think you're wrong. I told the pax what the problem was, that the defective part was being replaced, and we would be away in an hour. The Movers on the other hand spun a completely made-up story that wouldn't have sounded out of place coming out of their backsides.
No contest! Treat your pax like humans and be honest with them.
Sorry, I think you're wrong. I told the pax what the problem was, that the defective part was being replaced, and we would be away in an hour. The Movers on the other hand spun a completely made-up story that wouldn't have sounded out of place coming out of their backsides.
No contest! Treat your pax like humans and be honest with them.
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RAF Movements
Its not the fault of the proper TG18's either.......
Safety_Helmut
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Personally i've always thought that the number of the Trade Group is a fairly crude, but useful sort of indicator to the trades usefulness, anybody any thoughts on that one ?
Obviously those little numbers do very little other than take boxes out of planes and send them back to BAe (through us of course).
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I very much regret to say it, but I have to agree with the Pongo. I have had many many unhappy experiences with the Brize Norton fiasco and AT, aswell as countless others.
Even as aircrew, going out to an operational theatre, we (like all the rest) were treated shamefully, and I was embarrassed to see fellow service personell treating us like it.
If an aircraft goes u/s then that is a fact of life, but common decency should prevail, and measures taken to lessen the impact. Unfortunately most movers seem to regard it as an opportunity to generally screw people about and flexing their so calles muscles (sp??).
I am afraid that most movers, together with most RAFP head up my $hit list of people who the RAF DO NOT NEED!!
Kind regards as always
TSM
Even as aircrew, going out to an operational theatre, we (like all the rest) were treated shamefully, and I was embarrassed to see fellow service personell treating us like it.
If an aircraft goes u/s then that is a fact of life, but common decency should prevail, and measures taken to lessen the impact. Unfortunately most movers seem to regard it as an opportunity to generally screw people about and flexing their so calles muscles (sp??).
I am afraid that most movers, together with most RAFP head up my $hit list of people who the RAF DO NOT NEED!!
Kind regards as always
TSM
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TSM,
............................................................ .............................................
I am afraid that most movers, together with most RAFP head up my $hit list of people who the RAF DO NOT NEED!!
............................................................ .............................................
Rather scathing attack this AM old boy. Most unlike you.
Regards to all,
E5.
............................................................ .............................................
I am afraid that most movers, together with most RAFP head up my $hit list of people who the RAF DO NOT NEED!!
............................................................ .............................................
Rather scathing attack this AM old boy. Most unlike you.
Regards to all,
E5.
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I think DC3 and TSM have hit the nail on the head.
If the jet is u/s, let the pax know. Do you really think that they are going to be afraid of a technical hitch. Wake up and smell the coffee! People in the armed forces aren't stupid and without wishing to appear rude, it's not up to the movers to make that decision, just plain discourteous.
Came back from Op Telic once by Tristar and spent the night in Gateway, to be picked up by a Nimrod in the morning. Drove out to the aeroplane, loaded our bags ourselves, and were about to start the engines, when a 1 group mover came on to the 3 group aeroplane and made us get off because we hadn't gone through their 1 group departures!
Now if that isn't jobsworth, I don't know what is.
Movers, over to you.....
RR
PS Logistics Loader, calling people on the PA without their rank is rude, be it Private or Wing Commander, any more senior would warrent a personal messenger. Brevity is not an issue.The people manning the PA have the pax manifest with ranks on I presume.
If the jet is u/s, let the pax know. Do you really think that they are going to be afraid of a technical hitch. Wake up and smell the coffee! People in the armed forces aren't stupid and without wishing to appear rude, it's not up to the movers to make that decision, just plain discourteous.
Came back from Op Telic once by Tristar and spent the night in Gateway, to be picked up by a Nimrod in the morning. Drove out to the aeroplane, loaded our bags ourselves, and were about to start the engines, when a 1 group mover came on to the 3 group aeroplane and made us get off because we hadn't gone through their 1 group departures!
Now if that isn't jobsworth, I don't know what is.
Movers, over to you.....
RR
PS Logistics Loader, calling people on the PA without their rank is rude, be it Private or Wing Commander, any more senior would warrent a personal messenger. Brevity is not an issue.The people manning the PA have the pax manifest with ranks on I presume.
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" calling people on the PA without their rank is rude, be it Private or Wing Commander "
I remember an incident many years ago when a passenger clerk at Akronelli attempted to call forward a passenger using his rank, name and regiment. Unfortunately the passenger was of the Mexican moustache variety from the Welsh border area and didn't want to be identified. After a number of unanswered calls the clerk was taken away to a quiet corner by the DAMO and given a rollocking.
Perhaps it would be safer to call all passengers Mr, Mrs or Ms.
I remember an incident many years ago when a passenger clerk at Akronelli attempted to call forward a passenger using his rank, name and regiment. Unfortunately the passenger was of the Mexican moustache variety from the Welsh border area and didn't want to be identified. After a number of unanswered calls the clerk was taken away to a quiet corner by the DAMO and given a rollocking.
Perhaps it would be safer to call all passengers Mr, Mrs or Ms.
Years ago (well, not really that many), if (as sqn aircrew) we were paxing out somewhere in one of our own VC10K tankers, we just use to drive over to the jet, unload the kit, park in the nearby car park, then hop in the back.
By the time I banged out, this had turned into a complete feat of ar$e. Drive to the terminal and attempt to find somewhere to park. Lug kit over to terminal, queue up at check-in, get Plod-processed, wait to be called to bus, driven over to a/c. The bag crushers would, of course, rip the handles of your luggage and throw it about in their usual manner.
We also used to bring back the odd FJ mate or other from various parts of the world. Remarkably straightforward as long as the movers weren't involved......
Brought some grunts back from Botswana once. It was abundantly clear that ASI was maxxed out as they'd told us on the way out. Rang Ar$ecoat to suggest that instead of overloading ASI, we did a quick turn, then stopped at Dakar before coming home the next day - thus getting back much earlier than the stupid itinerary they'd planned. Which was to land at ASI, then hang around all day before going back via a 'quick' turnround in the mid-day sun at Dakar the next day.
Request refused - not on grounds of cost but "We can't have all those Army people running around in Dakar". I assured them that a quiet word with the SNCOs in charge of the Army lads would assure that everything would be fine - and the Army needed to be back asap due to a VIP parade they had to prepare for. But no, despite protestations, back via ASI it had to be...
Then ASI said that we'd have to wait until the inbound TriShaw had been processed through, which would have made us even later. "Bolleaux", quoth I, "We'll go before it gets here". ASI protested that they would have to take the pax straight to the a/c and wouldn't have time to process them all. "Listen, you arse, they're the same folk we brought here yesterday" was my riposte. "Only if you take responsibility..." they whined. So a quick word with the senior passenger and all was well - the Army were as good as gold thank to their SNCOs and discipline. But the next day we were about to crank up when some heifer with a red armband appeared to announce that she was unloading one of our ATSy Plods due to the need to put a 'priority passenger' on. "How will he get home, then?", I asked. "He can get the next Herc" she said, and attempted to turn her back. "If that's the best you can do, I will sort it myself. Put him on the northbound Trishaw which comes here in a couple of hours time!" She then tried to say that this would be impossible as it was a Tommy (freighter), not a Timmy (passenger) flight. "Is it DAC?" "Err, no". "Right, I expect you to sort it!"
Listened out on VHF for the southbound Timmy, then spoke to the crew and asked if they'd be seeing their northbound chums. Yes, they said. I told them the story; they assured me that putting the ATSy Plod on the Tommy as supernumerary crew would be no problem at all.
By the time we took off from Dakar, the northbound Tommy had caught us up - it was going flat out and to hell with the fuel burn! Good news, they'd got our Plod on board and he was actually going to be back at Brize before we were!
The moral of the story? Well, when I was in the RAF AT world we would do our damndest to get the pax back as quickly as possible - but were often hampered by the leaden hand of some movements personnel and the incompetence of Ar$ecoat Ops. Real airlines put their sharpest folk on dispatch and flight itinerary 'fire fighting' - not the rejects of the Phone Answering branch!
Other ways I've outfoxed the jobsworths included phoning MT Ops at Wattisham (when it was still RAF) from off the coast of Africa via HF phonepatch to say that we'd landed early at Brize, so could they please send the bus! An un-officer like little white lie - the F4 aircrew had earlier told me that Wattisham weren't planning on sending their bus until we were back at Brize, so they'd all have to hang around for 3-4 hours or so to wait for it! Instead, just as they came through customs their bus arrived outside the terminal!
I love it when a plan comes together!
On the subject of calling out passengers' names, we were once bringing back some Army folk from Hannover. The kit was all on board, but the movers had cocked up the head count as the numbers didn't add up. After an hour of this, the FS ALM decided he'd had enough and was going to check the list personally....
Sound plan - but it was like something out of Zulu when he got to "Jones" as this was some Welsh regiment and about eighty grinning taffies stuck their hands up! So he started "123 Jones?" "Here, Staff!", "456 Jones?" "Here, Staff!"....... I had to retire to the flight deck to avoid hysteria!
By the time I banged out, this had turned into a complete feat of ar$e. Drive to the terminal and attempt to find somewhere to park. Lug kit over to terminal, queue up at check-in, get Plod-processed, wait to be called to bus, driven over to a/c. The bag crushers would, of course, rip the handles of your luggage and throw it about in their usual manner.
We also used to bring back the odd FJ mate or other from various parts of the world. Remarkably straightforward as long as the movers weren't involved......
Brought some grunts back from Botswana once. It was abundantly clear that ASI was maxxed out as they'd told us on the way out. Rang Ar$ecoat to suggest that instead of overloading ASI, we did a quick turn, then stopped at Dakar before coming home the next day - thus getting back much earlier than the stupid itinerary they'd planned. Which was to land at ASI, then hang around all day before going back via a 'quick' turnround in the mid-day sun at Dakar the next day.
Request refused - not on grounds of cost but "We can't have all those Army people running around in Dakar". I assured them that a quiet word with the SNCOs in charge of the Army lads would assure that everything would be fine - and the Army needed to be back asap due to a VIP parade they had to prepare for. But no, despite protestations, back via ASI it had to be...
Then ASI said that we'd have to wait until the inbound TriShaw had been processed through, which would have made us even later. "Bolleaux", quoth I, "We'll go before it gets here". ASI protested that they would have to take the pax straight to the a/c and wouldn't have time to process them all. "Listen, you arse, they're the same folk we brought here yesterday" was my riposte. "Only if you take responsibility..." they whined. So a quick word with the senior passenger and all was well - the Army were as good as gold thank to their SNCOs and discipline. But the next day we were about to crank up when some heifer with a red armband appeared to announce that she was unloading one of our ATSy Plods due to the need to put a 'priority passenger' on. "How will he get home, then?", I asked. "He can get the next Herc" she said, and attempted to turn her back. "If that's the best you can do, I will sort it myself. Put him on the northbound Trishaw which comes here in a couple of hours time!" She then tried to say that this would be impossible as it was a Tommy (freighter), not a Timmy (passenger) flight. "Is it DAC?" "Err, no". "Right, I expect you to sort it!"
Listened out on VHF for the southbound Timmy, then spoke to the crew and asked if they'd be seeing their northbound chums. Yes, they said. I told them the story; they assured me that putting the ATSy Plod on the Tommy as supernumerary crew would be no problem at all.
By the time we took off from Dakar, the northbound Tommy had caught us up - it was going flat out and to hell with the fuel burn! Good news, they'd got our Plod on board and he was actually going to be back at Brize before we were!
The moral of the story? Well, when I was in the RAF AT world we would do our damndest to get the pax back as quickly as possible - but were often hampered by the leaden hand of some movements personnel and the incompetence of Ar$ecoat Ops. Real airlines put their sharpest folk on dispatch and flight itinerary 'fire fighting' - not the rejects of the Phone Answering branch!
Other ways I've outfoxed the jobsworths included phoning MT Ops at Wattisham (when it was still RAF) from off the coast of Africa via HF phonepatch to say that we'd landed early at Brize, so could they please send the bus! An un-officer like little white lie - the F4 aircrew had earlier told me that Wattisham weren't planning on sending their bus until we were back at Brize, so they'd all have to hang around for 3-4 hours or so to wait for it! Instead, just as they came through customs their bus arrived outside the terminal!
I love it when a plan comes together!
On the subject of calling out passengers' names, we were once bringing back some Army folk from Hannover. The kit was all on board, but the movers had cocked up the head count as the numbers didn't add up. After an hour of this, the FS ALM decided he'd had enough and was going to check the list personally....
Sound plan - but it was like something out of Zulu when he got to "Jones" as this was some Welsh regiment and about eighty grinning taffies stuck their hands up! So he started "123 Jones?" "Here, Staff!", "456 Jones?" "Here, Staff!"....... I had to retire to the flight deck to avoid hysteria!
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In response to the trade group thing, pre pay 2000 the lower the number the higher up the evolutionary scale you had progressed, e.g. TG1 = Gods, TG18 = Only just out of the water. This was sensibly reflected in pay and was nice to know a JT could earn more than the lowest paid SNCOs, alas the system now fails us of god like status.
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If the jet is u/s, let the pax know. Do you really think that they are going to be afraid of a technical hitch.
.......and he was an ATLO!!!
As for TG Nos - wasn't it the lower the number the earlier you were killed off in TACEVALs?
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On returning from Cyprus by VC10, I was sat next to a nervous matelot who had not twigged the reverse seating arrangement. He wondered why we were going backwards as we taxied. I told him the aircraft had a reverse gear.
He was quite happy until we gained speed going down the runway and the blood began to drain from his face. Took a while until realisation dawned.
An awful thing to do but irresistable.
He was quite happy until we gained speed going down the runway and the blood began to drain from his face. Took a while until realisation dawned.
An awful thing to do but irresistable.
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Just had a look at the "army" rumour website, arrse, that started this off, all I could see (only read the first 4 pages) was RAF bashing at every opportunity. Even when given valid reasons for flight delays and problems within the AT fleet the slanging still continued. I am in agreement with the member of the 10 fleet when he said, on said site, "maybe you should have done better at school, you could have joined the RAF".
A bit like the other thread on this forum bashing RAFP. You moan about lack of morale and then post rubbish like this. Again, most of the Movers I know are professionals trying to do a job with the limited resources that they have. Some of you probably have hardship stories to tell. Ask the Mover who has done 73 days OOA in approximately 100 days, has been told he is off to Bagdad for 4 weeks then some weeks later is off to asia for 4 months. He qualifies for his 91 days OOA but because he is OOA when he qualifies they won't count it until he returns hence the 4 Month det. He has something to moan about, but he is just getting on with it. PS I am not a Mover. Why can't we get on with telling the people who need to know what's wrong rather than the in-fighting we see here. Rant over.
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Kpax,
One could reasonably assume that some of the powers that be also read this site, so in airing views we are getting exposure to problems. (If they don't, then they are even more ignorant of the people that work for them than I thought) However, this is done anonymously without having to stick your head above the parapet.
In a public forum there is nothing wrong with people sharing their views and/or experiences. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it, after all.
One could reasonably assume that some of the powers that be also read this site, so in airing views we are getting exposure to problems. (If they don't, then they are even more ignorant of the people that work for them than I thought) However, this is done anonymously without having to stick your head above the parapet.
In a public forum there is nothing wrong with people sharing their views and/or experiences. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to read it, after all.
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KPax
Most of the movers you know may be professional, but try feeling that way you are in the nose bay of a herc when some dumb tw@t lowers the ramp without checking. I have seen it happen on many occasions, yet no matter how many times you tell them to check the nose bay from the front end it still happens. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt!
No matter how many times we tell the people who need to know things are wrong nothing gets done to remedy the situations correctly, and I think things will stay like this so long as my @rsehole points south. Infighting is a problem that will never go away, no matter what happens, we just have to live with it and ignore it.
Most of the movers you know may be professional, but try feeling that way you are in the nose bay of a herc when some dumb tw@t lowers the ramp without checking. I have seen it happen on many occasions, yet no matter how many times you tell them to check the nose bay from the front end it still happens. It is only a matter of time before someone is seriously hurt!
No matter how many times we tell the people who need to know things are wrong nothing gets done to remedy the situations correctly, and I think things will stay like this so long as my @rsehole points south. Infighting is a problem that will never go away, no matter what happens, we just have to live with it and ignore it.
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Have you tried to get to the CB with the back end full of crew bags, movers, pax and freight, about 30 seconds after the last prop has stopped spinning. It is impossible. Perhaps the movers would find it more prudent to wait untill the nose leg pin is inserted and the aircraft earthed before they drop the ramp. Just a thought..........